Black Dog Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 I think one of the misconceptions around Canada's policy of multicuralism is that it hasn't really been Multiculturalism. Aside from some federal funds for cultural festivals and a little support for a few language schools, Multiculturalism in Canada has been more or less just a kind of laissez-faire concept characterized mostly by feel-good government advertising. In other words, all those ranters screaming their defense of multiculturalism don't even seem to realize we haven't really been practicing it in Canada. Multiculturalism, the concept, is not merely about accepting and respecting newcomers different cultural habits, but of accepting the fact that they will retain those cultures indefinitely, along with their children and grandchildren. It comes replete with the idea of the cultural mosaic, from which it can't really be parted, and government aid and support for the continuation of their separate cultures similar to what we do for French. True multiculturalism was practiced in parts of Europe, notably England and France, and failed miserably. Canada has actually been much more of a melting pot. Even the defenders of multiculturalism here invariably state that the children and grandchildren of newcomers will be as Canadian as anyone else. Which indicates first, that they don't know what multiculturalism is, and second, that in the end, they actually support the idea of the melting pot. Cite required. This smacks of moving the goalposts. Quote
Peter F Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Argus (post 324) Even the defenders of multiculturalism here invariably state that the children and grandchildren of newcomers will be as Canadian as anyone else. Which indicates first, that they don't know what multiculturalism is, and second, that in the end, they actually support the idea of the melting pot. But defenders of multi-culturalism (me for one) say this purely to sooth your shattered nerves. The melting-pot works just fine under multi-cultural policies. And, Multi-cultural policies have the great advantage of keeping government out of the problem of making immigrants conform to the whims of polls. ... or on-line discussion boards. Edited November 10, 2014 by Peter F Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
GostHacked Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 More than half of us would not be living here in Canada if it was not for immigration in the past. I guess it just depends where they come from. And possibly the colour of their skin. Quote
Argus Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 Argus (post 324) But defenders of multi-culturalism (me for one) say this purely to sooth your shattered nerves. The melting-pot works just fine under multi-cultural policies. And, Multi-cultural policies have the great advantage of keeping government out of the problem of making immigrants conform to the whims of polls. ... or on-line discussion boards. The fact remains Canadians believe in the melting pot more than the mosaic approach. And no one is calling on government to make people assimilate. The problem is government encouraging people to NOT assimilate. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 More than half of us would not be living here in Canada if it was not for immigration in the past. I guess it just depends where they come from. And possibly the colour of their skin. And this has some relationship with the topic of multiculturalism somehow? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 Cite required. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-12371994 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8317497/Nicolas-Sarkozy-declares-multiculturalism-had-failed.html Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 And this has some relationship with the topic of multiculturalism somehow? A good deal of us in our late 30's to early 40s have parents or grandparents that were immigrants. This multiculturaism thing has been an issue for decades, but now we just focus on a different set of people. Quote
eyeball Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 The fact remains Canadians believe in the melting pot more than the mosaic approach. And no one is calling on government to make people assimilate. The problem is government encouraging people to NOT assimilate. The real problem is that globalization is forcing everyone into becoming a cog in a big economic wheel. Resistance is pretty much futile given how strongly the government encourages globalization and in the face of this monolith people return to their familiar clannish tribal roots. Your's were apparently in amongst a bunch of old scared white guys. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 A good deal of us in our late 30's to early 40s have parents or grandparents that were immigrants. This multiculturaism thing has been an issue for decades, but now we just focus on a different set of people. Multiculralism is not exactly an old policy. It actually only arose with the 'different set of people' who started coming in after the 70s. Prior to that there was no question in anyone's minds that the duty of newcomers was to adapt, learn the language, and assimilate as rapidly as possible. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 The real problem is that globalization is forcing everyone into becoming a cog in a big economic wheel. Resistance is pretty much futile given how strongly the government encourages globalization and in the face of this monolith people return to their familiar clannish tribal roots. Your's were apparently in amongst a bunch of old scared white guys. If I'm a old scared white guy how come you're the one running through every topic on this web site screaming about the sky falling and globalization destroying us all and telling everyone to give up becase 'resistance is futile'? Your posts usually resemble that of a deluded paranoid. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Black Dog Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-12371994 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8317497/Nicolas-Sarkozy-declares-multiculturalism-had-failed.html I was asking for a cite that those countries practiced "true multiculturalism" not for a rehash of the same news articles you've quoted dozens of times before. As I already posited, France and Germany did not practice multiculturalism in any meaningful way. Rather, they pursued policies of marginalization and exclusion that kept immigrant communities isolated and excluded. How that can be considered multiculturalism is beyond me. Quote
guyser Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 Prior to that there was no question in anyone's minds that the duty of newcomers was to adapt, learn the language, and assimilate as rapidly as possible.Yea...about that. Do you have any knowledge of Italiam immigration, who ,most assuredly did not give up anything about being Italian apart from learning English ? In the ten yrs prior to your selected date above, Italians increased fourfold to 450,000. And with that came lovely scrolled railings , not to mention building Toronto's infrastructure (and everything else) And where are we today? Quote
GostHacked Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 Multiculralism is not exactly an old policy. It actually only arose with the 'different set of people' who started coming in after the 70s. Prior to that there was no question in anyone's minds that the duty of newcomers was to adapt, learn the language, and assimilate as rapidly as possible. Why is 'Octoberfest' popular in Canada? Quote
Argus Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 Yea...about that. Do you have any knowledge of Italiam immigration, who ,most assuredly did not give up anything about being Italian apart from learning English ? My next door neighbour is Italian. I don't think he'd be flattered if you told him the only difference between him and someone living in Palermo is he speaks English. He seems to think he's Canadian. He even plays hockey. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 Why is 'Octoberfest' popular in Canada? Because it's about beer. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 My next door neighbour is Italian. I don't think he'd be flattered if you told him the only difference between him and someone living in Palermo is he speaks English. He seems to think he's Canadian. He even plays hockey.So.....what you are saying is that multiculti works? Afterall, he plays hockey, speaks english, and thinks himself Canadian. Quote
GostHacked Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 Because it's about beer. You can thank the Germans for integrating it into our overall culture. It's not a good example of immigrant assimilation. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 And were there or weren't there? I have no idea. I'm not interested to look back either. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Argus Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) So.....what you are saying is that multiculti works? Afterall, he plays hockey, speaks english, and thinks himself Canadian. I'm saying Canada doesn't actually practice multiculturalism. It pays lip service to multiculturalism. And multiculturalism is not about him integrating into our society, it's about him preserving his. Edited November 10, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 I'm saying Canada doesn't actually practice multiculturalism. It pays lip service to multiculturalism. And multiculturalism is not about him integrating into our society, it's about him preserving his.Want to bet he eats Seven Fishes on christmas eve? Along w a myriad of other traditions they have kept while living in and being Canadian . Quote
The_Squid Posted November 10, 2014 Report Posted November 10, 2014 I'm saying Canada doesn't actually practice multiculturalism. It pays lip service to multiculturalism. And multiculturalism is not about him integrating into our society, it's about him preserving his. Multiculturalism is bad... but we don't really have multiculturalism... So then it is working, despite the lip service paid to it by the federal government.... is that what you're saying? Because you seem to be waffling about this now... Quote
eyeball Posted November 11, 2014 Report Posted November 11, 2014 If I'm a old scared white guy how come you're the one running through every topic on this web site screaming about the sky falling and globalization destroying us all and telling everyone to give up becase 'resistance is futile'? Your posts usually resemble that of a deluded paranoid. Screaming? Either produce a link to a post where I used all caps or quit talking through your sphincter. Globalization and a one world market are a fact. Your response to that reality is as typical as just about every other human being that's having to assimilate it - a retreat back to the old familiar reassuring touchstones of nationalism, tribalism, religion etc. It's as pervasive a force in the world as the force it's reacting too - the local ying to the global yang. These are undemocratic and dis-empowering times we live in - just look to your own feelings to confirm the truth of what I'm saying. Can you honestly say after all you've written that you feel represented and in any sort of political position to do anything to make you feel less threatened or overwhelmed? Resistance is not futile I just think it's unlikely to be very effective when it misses the mark so badly. As for paranoid posts about falling skies...I'd say freaking out about immigration probably provides a better example of that. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
WestCoastRunner Posted November 11, 2014 Report Posted November 11, 2014 A good deal of us in our late 30's to early 40s have parents or grandparents that were immigrants. This multiculturaism thing has been an issue for decades, but now we just focus on a different set of people. A good deal of us are in our 40's, 50's and 60's. We have slept with immigrants, we have had babies with immigrants. It is not a big deal. And for those who seem to focus on it endlessly, is just so tiresome. And we are, quite frankly, getting tired of folks who like to complain about it. And this is not directed at you! Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Argus Posted November 11, 2014 Report Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Multiculturalism is bad... but we don't really have multiculturalism... So then it is working, despite the lip service paid to it by the federal government.... is that what you're saying? Because you seem to be waffling about this now... I don't know why this isn't clear. Yes, I'm opposed to multiculturalism, even the weak form Canada practices. I'm entirely in favour of newcomers integrating themselves into the Canadian mainstream. I'm most definitely opposed to the idea of a 'community of communities'. I always have been. I thought it was a stupid idea created by pie in the sky, ivory tower academics forty years ago and nothing has happened to change my mind. Edited November 11, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 11, 2014 Report Posted November 11, 2014 A good deal of us are in our 40's, 50's and 60's. We have slept with immigrants, we have had babies with immigrants. It is not a big deal. And for those who seem to focus on it endlessly, is just so tiresome. And we are, quite frankly, getting tired of folks who like to complain about it. What's that saying, ignorance is bliss? I suppose it is. For people who don't keep informed, who have no idea about anything going on, then they can be quite content and wonder why others are complaining. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.