Marc Emery Extradition

[thermo]

I have as much sympathy for him as I do for boilerroom telemarketers who defraud americans over the phone from the comfort of their canadian telephone rooms.

See, with your example, defrauding people over the phone (or online - whatever) is illegal here and there. clearly a violation of both our laws. the two do not compare tho, i'm sorry.

[M.Dancer]

See, with your example, defrauding people over the phone (or online - whatever) is illegal here and there. clearly a violation of both our laws. the two do not compare tho, i'm sorry.

Your apology is accepted.

Whether his trafficking is illegal here or not is irrelevant. As I understand it, he broke Canadian law as well, but the penalty is much less than the US, either way it is irrelevant. The treaties we have with each other cover offenses committed in the applicants country. In otherwords, If we somhow made smuggling into Canada legal the criminals could still be extridited for smuggling into the US where it is still illegal. He broke American law by selling his wares into the US. If he was smart, he would have got good legal advice before he broke the law...but he was probably high and didn't think it was needed.

[thermo]

Your apology is accepted.

Whether his trafficking is illegal here or not is irrelevant. As I understand it, he broke Canadian law as well, but the penalty is much less than the US, either way it is irrelevant. The treaties we have with each other cover offenses committed in the applicants country. In otherwords, If we somhow made smuggling into Canada legal the criminals could still be extridited for smuggling into the US where it is still illegal. He broke American law by selling his wares into the US. If he was smart, he would have got good legal advice before he broke the law...but he was probably high and didn't think it was needed.

[thermo]

oops!^

it is relevant tho. we don't have clear laws on the matter. seeds don't contian thc, which is the main thing in pot that affects Emery's judgment! like i said before - it's a big grey area.

There are things that are illegal up here - things deemed hate speech - that are considered free speech down south. but they're not sending anyone with a white supremest website up here to jail time are they?

[M.Dancer]

There are things that are illegal up here - things deemed hate speech - that are considered free speech down south. but they're not sending anyone with a white supremest website up here to jail time are they?

Now that is different....I believe that Zundle was found in contempt (or it may have been one of his disciples) for publishing zundles hatespew on an american server to avoid Canadian law...

....and if David Duke or his ilk came here and broke a hate law he could theoretically be extradited.....but that assumes we would let him in in the first place.

On the otherhand, if someone mails hate literature from the US.....then they would have clearly broken the law and could be charged.

[thermo]

....and if David Duke or his ilk came here and broke a hate law he could theoretically be extradited.....but that assumes we would let him in in the first place.

On the otherhand, if someone mails hate literature from the US.....then they would have clearly broken the law and could be charged.

well Duke would have to COME HERE to do that - on our soil - to be charged!

and if he mailed stuff - do you think the U.S. would serve him up to us? they would freak the F___ out at the very idea!

[M.Dancer]

well Duke would have to COME HERE to do that - on our soil - to be charged!

and if he mailed stuff - do you think the U.S. would serve him up to us? they would freak the F___ out at the very idea!

So you would be okay if Emery mailed heroin to the US because he was on Canadian soil when he posted the parcel?

[thermo]

So you would be okay if Emery mailed heroin to the US because he was on Canadian soil when he posted the parcel?

i don't think you're getting my point at all here, dude.

it is clearly illegal here to posses heroin. mailing it, i'm sure, even more serious. it is not the same with pot seeds. not by a long shot.

[fellowtraveller]

however the cannabis laws here are really vague

Since when was selling drugs legal in Canada?

What has been vague is Canadian enforcement of pot laws. Possession, intent, distribution are all Criminal Code offences in Canada as well as the US.

What has differed is the willingness of the Candian authorities to prosecute. It isn't even the feds really, since each province can pick and choose how vigorously they pursue this, to a large extent. But extradition issues are federal. Of course.

Painting Emery as a victim of anything but his own greed is ridiculous. Nobody forced him to enter the US market. The man is an idiot and deserves no sympathy.

If he had sent drugs to Singapore he'd be facing the death penalty.

[M.Dancer]

i don't think you're getting my point at all here, dude.

it is clearly illegal here to posses heroin. mailing it, i'm sure, even more serious. it is not the same with pot seeds. not by a long shot.

MArijuana seeds are illegal in Canada. The only exception is if they are non viable.

[normanchateau]

oops!^

it is relevant tho. we don't have clear laws on the matter. seeds don't contian thc, which is the main thing in pot that affects Emery's judgment! like i said before - it's a big grey area.

Grey and inconsistent. Marijuana seeds contain less mind-altering constituents than poppy seeds. Poppy seeds contain measurable quantities of the opiates morphine and codeine. i.e., heroin precursors. Eating sufficient quantities of poppy seeds will result in a positive reading on an opiate drug test. Poppy seeds are illegal in Singapore and Saudi Arabia. Why haven't Stephen Harper and George Bush banned the sale of poppy seeds?

[sharkman]

Your mistake again, and again, and again, you must be quite used to being wrong. Emery hasn't plea bargained anything yet, tho offers have been made and considered. He hasn't had a trial yet because he will face trial only once extradited to America. The Canadian government has still not bothered charging him with any crimes. A Canadian trial is what he has a right to and is what the government is trying to deny him. If marc does take the deal he is offered, it is only to save his friends who are also being unjustly subjected to this farce. That is not cowardly it is honourable.

Walker did no such thing, he tried to get off in court. You are so full of shit, you sit here and defend a murderer and say he had a good excuse, while condemning a man to life in prison over seeds. His daughter will say whatever her crazed gunman of a father wants her to from now on I'm sure. He kills people who don't do things his way.

I wonder how the murder victim's family feels.

"Sorry I'm a law abiding citizen, I don't break the law no matter how much I disagree with it."

Im pretty sure that is an outright lie. Everybody breaks the law sometimes, i guess you always wear your seatbelt even crossing a parking lot, never speed or record your favorite cop shows off of cable TV?

Nonetheless I'm sure you will obey the "bend over and take an agressive buggering with a large carrot" law, so long as some government manages to pass it.

The point is blind obedience is not good for society and people willing to submit to it are lucky that others, like Marc Emery ARE willing to stand up to injustice. Without people like Marc we would have no freedoms. I find your capitulence nausiating.

Hey, let's continue this enlightening discussion on pot and "aggressive carrot buggering", Dr. Do you think legalizing pot will stop the criminal element from growing it, or will they just go after the competition to keep prices high?

And another question. When a politician drug user, such as Marian Barry, makes an election promise to get drugs off the street, does he mean he's going to shut down street dealers, or buy more drugs off the street? This has always bugged me.

[Drea]

Hey, let's continue this enlightening discussion on pot and "aggressive carrot buggering", Dr. Do you think legalizing pot will stop the criminal element from growing it, or will they just go after the competition to keep prices high?

And another question. When a politician drug user, such as Marian Barry, makes an election promise to get drugs off the street, does he mean he's going to shut down street dealers, or buy more drugs off the street? This has always bugged me.

How many criminals grow tobacco?

How many criminals distill spirits such as vodka or rye whiskey or rum or gin or even beer or wine?

Very few.

Have you ever thought of why criminals are not involved in the production, sale and distribution of these substances?

If butter were illegal, criminals would have cows.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Drea

[Drea]

deleted... double post

Edited April 18, 2008 by Drea

[Qwerty]

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

He knew what he was doing was illegal and made the choice to do it anyhow. Cry me a river.

Drea, I understand the pov that you take but at this present time it is still illegal and he should be respecting the laws of this country. We don't have the luxury of which laws we'll choose to follow and which ones we won't. We must follow them all.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Qwerty

[Wilber]

You're half right. It's about sovereignty. Period. Arresting a Canadian in Canada for violation of U.S. laws. Is a direct violation of our sovereignty. The law here is a big grey area - but that's not what's at issue. Nor is it what anyone thinks about Emery.

Bull Pucky. If Charles Ng had been a Canadian are you saying we shouldn't have arrested him for the murders he committed in the US? Emery chose to hide behind Canada and his fellow Canadians in order to break US law. I object to that alone, the crime itself is irrelevant, even though in this case I believe the US penalties to be draconian.

[HisSelf]

It is not about Canadian law? Is it about universal jurisdiction? Why is it an "unfortunate" juxtaposition of Bush and Harper? Are they irrelevent?

Against our economic interests - now you have peaked my curiosity.

Former Vancouver mayor Larry Campbell laid out a pretty good case for legalising and taxing the stuff. Google him.

An argument that gets used over and over is the "leads to hard drugs" red herring. If it leads to hard drugs, it's because the only place to get marijuana is from the same guys who sell heroin and crack. People who smoke crack also drink beer. Does beer lead to crack?

During the last round of hearings on the subject of decriminalization, the RCMP and the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police were both in favour. Many US states have now decriminalized marijuana poessession. These are sober-minded people who see the huge resources that go into policing a law that ruins the lives of many people over something that has yet to be medically proven a major health threat.

Marijuana is illegal and categorized as a narcotic solely due to the efforts of one American crackpot named Anslinger (rhymes with arse-licker). You can Google him for background. Were it not for him, the situation would be very different with respect to pot.

M.Dancer - you said Marijuana seeds are illegal in Canada. Can you provide a source? My understanding is that they are legal, active or not. As for not serving people who don't look like they have money - get a grip. However fancy the Summerhill booze store might be, it is not the Jamie Kennedy wine bar.

Edited April 18, 2008 by HisSelf

[sharkman]

Hey, let's continue this enlightening discussion on pot and "aggressive carrot buggering", Dr. Do you think legalizing pot will stop the criminal element from growing it, or will they just go after the competition to keep prices high?

And another question. When a politician drug user, such as Marian Barry, makes an election promise to get drugs off the street, does he mean he's going to shut down street dealers, or buy more drugs off the street? This has always bugged me.

Oh DrGreen, since you tend to use every thread you post in as a potential soapbox to wax romantic on your pot opinions I find it disappointing that when I drag up an old pot thread you started and serve up a couple of softball questions, you are no where to be found. Odd, that. See I was thinking rather than straying off subject on the dozens of threads you participate in, you could make your pot comments in threads that are actually about pot.

There have been others who took my hint today and have used this platform, and I noticed someone else even started a new pot thread for you, so maybe there is hope after all.

[eyeball]

We don't have the luxury of which laws we'll choose to follow and which ones we won't. We must follow them all.

Spoken like any true blue patriotic Politburo member.

So Qwerty, when you find yourself at a prarie crossroads at midnight with not a single other car in sight do you actually come to a full complete stop at the stop sign?

No doubt you'd also sit tight and fly right if the government passed a law prohibiting using more than three squares of toilet paper.

[HisSelf]

So Qwerty, when you find yourself at a prarie crossroads at midnight with not a single other car in sight do you actually come to a full complete stop at the stop sign?

What he said.

[sharkman]

Spoken like any true blue patriotic Politburo member.

So Qwerty, when you find yourself at a prarie crossroads at midnight with not a single other car in sight do you actually come to a full complete stop at the stop sign?

No doubt you'd also sit tight and fly right if the government passed a law prohibiting using more than three squares of toilet paper.

Ha ha. But seriously, I come to a full stop out here in B.C. where the road's windy and hilly because one has to watch out for the eggheads who like to coast through intersections. One such twit did so, pulling out in front of me while I had no stop sign to observe, and I almost hit him but was watching him the whole time so was able to narrowly avoid the collision.

And this same dumb attitude about choosing which laws to observe rules the crime/drug world, where it's never the druggies' fault, it's the government, the neighbor, the parents, or the teacher's fault.

Edited April 18, 2008 by sharkman

[eyeball]

Ha ha. But seriously, I come to a full stop out here in B.C. where the road's windy and hilly because one has to watch out for the eggheads who like to coast through intersections. One such twit did so, pulling out in front of me while I had no stop sign to observe, and I almost hit him but was watching him the whole time so was able to narrowly avoid the collision.

And this same dumb attitude about choosing which laws to observe rules the crime/drug world, where it's never the druggies' fault, it's the government, the neighbor, the parents, or the teacher's fault.

Give the guy a break, he was probably under the influence of NeoCitran and simply misjudged the warning on the product lable to be careful when driving or operating machinery, as was his responsibility.

What about the government choosing which principles it will observe when making laws? In the case of drugs its one in the case of booze its clearly another. In the case of NeoCitran...

The law deserves no more respect than it can demonstrate itself.

[sharkman]

Give the guy a break, he was probably under the influence of NeoCitran and simply misjudged the warning on the product lable to be careful when driving or operating machinery, as was his responsibility.

What about the government choosing which principles it will observe when making laws? In the case of drugs its one in the case of booze its clearly another. In the case of NeoCitran...

The law deserves no more respect than it can demonstrate itself.

You see, now you're blaming the government. Take charge my uncertain friend! Be the captain of your own ship and steer clear of the ice-burgs that beset us.

A few years ago in a neighborhood where my parents lived, a car filled with teenagers ran a stop sign. They were demolished by a garbage truck who it was determined did nothing wrong. The driver of the car died. The parents blamed the garbage truck company. They blamed the city. They blamed the truck driver. They screamed and wailed, but never considered that their son was to blame even though it was determined beyond a frickin doubt that he was.

All because the son decided which law to obey and which was a waste of his time.

[Drea]

You see, now you're blaming the government. Take charge my uncertain friend! Be the captain of your own ship and steer clear of the ice-burgs that beset us.

A few years ago in a neighborhood where my parents lived, a car filled with teenagers ran a stop sign. They were demolished by a garbage truck who it was determined did nothing wrong. The driver of the car died. The parents blamed the garbage truck company. They blamed the city. They blamed the truck driver. They screamed and wailed, but never considered that their son was to blame even though it was determined beyond a frickin doubt that he was.

All because the son decided which law to obey and which was a waste of his time.

It's always somebody else's fault it seems.

But we've raised a culture of parents who don't know HOW to chastise their children, so they don't. Ever. And this type of thing happens and the parents can't blame themselves (they followed Dr. Spock after all, so how could they have gone wrong??) or their kids, so they blame everyone around them.

[eyeball]

You see, now you're blaming the government.

Blaming the government for what, for making people's choices for them or deciding what laws and principles it should apply? In the case of Marc Emery's extradition and obeying/enforcing laws, did you know that the government advised people who were looking for marijuana seeds to go see Marc Emery?

Here we are, a signatory to international agreements to interdict drugs and we're directing people to purchace illegal drugs from an apparently illegal source. Surely this falls under the heading of conspiring to grow and distribute marijuana, even according to our own law. Why isn't the DEA bringing charges against Health Canada officials?

How do you square this with your observation that "same dumb attitude about choosing which laws to observe rules the crime/drug world"?