The waterboarding poll

M.Dancer · March 11, 2008

.... were revenge for the people of the Muslim persuasion in the ME countries in which the US has been meddling and in which the British empire meddled and murdered before them.
This is pretty easy stuff pal!

They are punters compared to the Ottomans or the Persians.....while the US never did really get into the whole public beheading thing and hanging people on spikes, they did provide modern medicine and clean drinking water...which is no doubt why AlQ hate them over the Ottomans...

UShaditComing · March 11, 2008

Ah, no. That simply isn't true. Once does not have to a murderer nor bloodthirsty to fight for freedom. Al Quaeda is not fighting for freedom nor can they claim the US is occupying 'their country.' It isn't.

Tell the righties that about Che Guevara.

And rightly or wrongly, Al Queda is fighting American aggression on the Arabian peninsula. You may not believe it's an affront to them to have the infidel on their land but they do. So why do you think they fight? Why do you think they hit the US on 9/11. I never tire of hearing the novel ways in which it can be explained away as not revenge.

M.Dancer · March 11, 2008

Tell the righties that about Che Guevara.

He was indeed a blood thirsty murderer......but he certainly wasn't a freedom fighter. He was waging an insugency for whomever would pay his travel expenses....

M.Dancer · March 11, 2008

Tell the righties that about Che Guevara.
And rightly or wrongly, Al Queda is fighting American aggression on the Arabian peninsula.

What american aggresion on the arabian peninsula?

Regulus de Leo · March 11, 2008

Tell the righties that about Che Guevara.
And rightly or wrongly, Al Queda is fighting American aggression on the Arabian peninsula. You may not believe it's an affront to them to have the infidel on their land but they do. So why do you think they fight? Why do you think they hit the US on 9/11. I never tire of hearing the novel ways in which it can be explained away as not revenge.

Good point. Che was bloodthirsty but not all freedom fighters are murderers and thugs the way so many communists are.

Rightly or wrongly? You mean you don't even know what is right and what is wrong?

They hate Westerners for being Western, secular, or Christian. They are raised with hate. They hate women. They everyone who is not a Muslim and they hate Muslims who don't adhere to their own radical version of Islam.

UShaditComing · March 11, 2008

Good point. Che was bloodthirsty but not all freedom fighters are murderers and thugs the way so many communists are.
Rightly or wrongly? You mean you don't even know what is right and what is wrong?

They hate Westerners for being Western, secular, or Christian. They are raised with hate. They hate women. They everyone who is not a Muslim and they hate Muslims who don't adhere to their own radical version of Islam.

They wouldn't even know what a Westerner was if the US wasn't there trying to pick their pockets. Read my signature again carefully this time. I would also suggest to you that the Afghanistan shepherds who say the first big US bombs dropped from a distance didn't even know they were bombs.

Army Guy · March 11, 2008

You have failed to tell me anything new other than you are in favour of torture. Other than suggesting that there are others under your command. So it seems that you have to believe one thing while hypocritically instructing those under your command to do the opposite? Is that correct? And btw, are you in the Canadian military or the US military.

No where did i state that i was in favour of torture, In fact i did state the exact opposite, i firmly believe that torture is wrong and as a nation and military we should abide by the genva convention...your the reporter you tell me....

Be aware that if you are part of the Canadian military some of the things you say could be used againt you. Just so you understand that you need to stay above board on this because if I can use you as a public example elsewhere I will do just that. I would assume that you would consider that fair play. That doesn't mean you personally but you as a person in the military who is claiming to be in a position of authority and who publicly supports torture of prisoners

Thanks for the warning, this is a public forum and i'm aware of all the pitfalls that come along with using it. And yes i did screw up by letting my personal opinions into my posts, won't happen again...but then again i'm sure that if you wanted to you could twist anything to suit your purpose.... and once again i do not support the use of torture, nor did i say i did....

Regulus de Leo · March 11, 2008

They wouldn't even know what a Westerner was if the US wasn't there trying to pick their pockets. Read my signature again carefully this time. I would also suggest to you that the Afghanistan shepherds who say the first big US bombs dropped from a distance didn't even know they were bombs.

Your signature displays a hopelessly naive creed. Afghan shepherd know a lot about bombs. Their country has been engulfed in war for over 25 years, long before the Americans got there. Al Quaeda is not an organization comprised of 'shepherds.' Many of them were educated in the west, raised in wealthy families and come from urban areas.

Drea · March 11, 2008

And they banded together, with the help of the USA, to fight the Russians.

Under the Taliban poppy production went down to its lowest historic level. Now that the US is in control, production is at record levels.

Fuelling the unending "war on drugs" using the unending "war on terror".

Really I guess it's too bad that Russia didn't gain control -- at least then the drugs wouldn't be coming here.

Gotta keep America working! Gotta keep those DEA folks, lawyers, judges and politicians working!

Without the war on drugs, there would be no need for 90% of the law enforcement and that would put too many people out of work --so the US makes damn sure everyone gets their heroin.

Frig.

Regulus de Leo · March 11, 2008

And they banded together, with the help of the USA, to fight the Russians.

If you are referring Osama bin Laden and his foreign fighters in Afghanistan, they brought their own money and were financed from the Middle East. The CIA assisted local Afghan fighters not OBL and the Al Qaeda. This is one of those canards bandied about by the Left who try to argue OBL and Al Qaeda were 'created' by the USA and CIA. You are just plain wrong.

BTW, the Russian occupation was brutal. They dropped explosives disguised as pens, pins and children's toys to deliberately mame Afghan children. This is well-documented. The local resistance centred on attacking Russian troops in Afghanistan not murdering innocent civilians in Russia.

Drea · March 11, 2008

If the Taliban were fighting those brutal Russians why are we now fighting them? Were they not freedom fighters against Russian occupation? Now that they are fighting American forces (and NATO) they are called "terrorists" -- on what date, at what time, did they go from "freedom fighter" to "terrorist"?

The Taliban (and Al Qaeda) did not have the means to perpetrate the atrocity on Sept 11, 2001. The only people on earth that could have pulled it off are in the oval office right now.

I got some ocean front propery for sale in southern Sask -- only $50,000. Hurry! THis offer won't last long!

Regulus de Leo · March 11, 2008

If the Taliban were fighting those brutal Russians why are we now fighting them? Were they not freedom fighters against Russian occupation? Now that they are fighting American forces (and NATO) they are called "terrorists" -- on what date, at what time, did they go from "freedom fighter" to "terrorist"?
The Taliban (and Al Qaeda) did not have the means to perpetrate the atrocity on Sept 11, 2001. The only people on earth that could have pulled it off are in the oval office right now.

I got some ocean front propery for sale in southern Sask -- only $50,000. Hurry! THis offer won't last long!

The Taliban was merely one of a number of Afghan groups. They seized power and plunged the country into civil war and then harboured the terrorists who were responsible for 9/11.

Yes fighting against a foreign occupation by Russians was 'freedom fighting.' Afghans fought for their country against a foreign invader.

American forces are in Afghanistan at the behest of the democratically elected Afghan government.

Janice Stein on the Agenda the other week stated that poll after poll has showed that Afghans do not want the NATO forces to leave Afghanistan.

Your embrace of conspiracy theories is nonsense. 9/11 was a low budget affair involving simple weapons, rehearsed and coordinated plans with surprise and novels means. This is why it succeeded. If you are going to don your tinfoil hat I don't see the point of continuing the discussion.

Drea · March 11, 2008

Tinfoil hurts my teeth! I prefer duct tape and saran wrap cause that's what prez Bush recommended!

I know, Al Qaeda also made damn sure that there were no airforce jets in the air that day -- Al Qaeda must control the USAF. *shrug*

Can you say co-in-ci-dence? pffft.

No, I do not want to get into a discussion about 911 -- I know the truth (as do many others) and that's all that matters. Your fantasy that some "terrorists" did it is moot. It's been proven. Done. Finished. Over. And you know what? Nobody cares. The rightwing American mind only holds 2 bits of info at a time and Brittany is in the news again. (oh those American lefties though -- they are pitbulls on a chicken with this and will not let it go -- guaranteed)

Edited March 11, 2008 by Drea

Regulus de Leo · March 11, 2008

If you believe people in the Oval Office pulled off 9/11 you have zero credibility.

Drea · March 11, 2008

Clue Bat says: "there are no such thing as coincidences".

bush_cheney2004 · March 11, 2008

...Look, let's look at this logically and just suppose that the 9/11 attacks were revenge attacks. What would you say then? Nations (the US) which attack others and kill them in their own countries will become the object of revenge.

Nope...your theory doesn't seem to work under closer scrutiny , or "logically" the USA would have "REVENGE" attacks from Chile, Haiti, Honduras, Guatemala, Cuba, Grenada, Mexico, Dominican Republic, Lebanon, Serbia, Somalia, Sudan, Germany, Japan, Italy, Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea, and the Philippines (and others). Maybe even Mars (for those invading landers and rovers).

UShaditComing · March 11, 2008

army guy wrote:

No where did i state that i was in favour of torture, In fact i did state the exact opposite, i firmly believe that torture is wrong and as a nation and military we should abide by the genva convention...your the reporter you tell me....

No, you can't get out of it now. You said that you supported waterboarding if the recipients were what you refer to as 'scumbags'. Just be more careful what you say in the future because if you really are in command of others you can get yourself in some serious trouble with your country for your words. I somehow doubt you are who you say you are but that's quite beside the point.

UShaditComing · March 11, 2008

If you are referring Osama bin Laden and his foreign fighters in Afghanistan, they brought their own money and were financed from the Middle East. The CIA assisted local Afghan fighters not OBL and the Al Qaeda. This is one of those canards bandied about by the Left who try to argue OBL and Al Qaeda were 'created' by the USA and CIA. You are just plain wrong.
BTW, the Russian occupation was brutal. They dropped explosives disguised as pens, pins and children's toys to deliberately mame Afghan children. This is well-documented. The local resistance centred on attacking Russian troops in Afghanistan not murdering innocent civilians in Russia.

Trying for a little damage control at the same time as a little Russia demonization. That's very American of you.

http://archive.capecodonline.com/special/t...binladen17b.htm

The US did indeed support Osama and Al Queda and you either have to be a liar or uninformed to say otherwise. The claim of Russian bombs being made to look like children's toys is one I would have to see proof of to believe. There is definitely a claim that American cluster bomblets resemble children's toys and many children died from picking them up.

UShaditComing · March 11, 2008

The US did not plan and carry out the attacks on 9/11.

The US under the Bush regime certainly did use the attack to justify the attack on Iraq for Iraq's oil resources. In fact Bush and his lackeys needed to be persuaded that they needed to bomb Afghanistan first because they are on record as wanting to go straight to Iraq. WMD's in Iraq was just a justification for war that they thought would work and they said so.

Forget the conspiracy theories, there is enough reality in the thing to show and demonstrate the evil of the US wars.

bush_cheney2004 · March 12, 2008

The US under the Bush regime certainly did use the attack to justify the attack on Iraq for Iraq's oil resources. In fact Bush and his lackeys needed to be persuaded that they needed to bomb Afghanistan first because they are on record as wanting to go straight to Iraq. WMD's in Iraq was just a justification for war that they thought would work and they said so.

Wrong...no justification was needed giving existing US/UK policy for Iraq and Gulf War instruments of surrender. Iraq was in a stranglehold since 1991, being attacked many times before President George W. Bush was ever elected.

jbg · March 12, 2008

They wouldn't even know what a Westerner was if the US wasn't there trying to pick their pockets. Read my signature again carefully this time. I would also suggest to you that the Afghanistan shepherds who say the first big US bombs dropped from a distance didn't even know they were bombs.

Does the foregoing apply to Marco Polo? To the victims of the Barbary Coast Pirates?

UShaditComing · March 12, 2008

Does the foregoing apply to Marco Polo? To the victims of the Barbary Coast Pirates?

Welcome back to the discussion jbg. It was sort of bogging down and your opinion would be appreciated now.

Regulus de Leo · March 12, 2008

Trying for a little damage control at the same time as a little Russia demonization. That's very American of you.
http://archive.capecodonline.com/special/t...binladen17b.htm

The US did indeed support Osama and Al Queda and you either have to be a liar or uninformed to say otherwise. The claim of Russian bombs being made to look like children's toys is one I would have to see proof of to believe. There is definitely a claim that American cluster bomblets resemble children's toys and many children died from picking them up.

The article is wrong and draws a false conclusion from the same type of general information you do.

You can read the 9/11 Commission report (a bipartisan report) for a bio on OBL and how he came to power.

The Russian use of bombs disguised as toys is correct.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=11081

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Internati...tions/bg556.cfm

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/headlines/cas..._in_afghanistan

White Doors · March 12, 2008

Trying for a little damage control at the same time as a little Russia demonization. That's very American of you.
http://archive.capecodonline.com/special/t...binladen17b.htm

The US did indeed support Osama and Al Queda and you either have to be a liar or uninformed to say otherwise. The claim of Russian bombs being made to look like children's toys is one I would have to see proof of to believe. There is definitely a claim that American cluster bomblets resemble children's toys and many children died from picking them up.

There was a civil war of the freedom fighters that united to drive out the soviets. The Taliban was one of them.

They used Islam to turn the populace against the northern Aliance. The Northern Alliance comprised of more mujahadeen than did the Taliban. The Taliban were financed and armed by the Pakistani version of the CIA.

This is historical fact. You should read up on it.

Karzai was also a Mujahadeen.

in other words; some taliban were mujahadeen. The Mujahadeen were NOT all Taliban, not even a majority and can be argued that they were a very small minority.

M.Dancer · March 12, 2008

army guy wrote:
No, you can't get out of it now. You said that you supported waterboarding if the recipients were what you refer to as 'scumbags'. Just be more careful what you say in the future because if you really are in command of others you can get yourself in some serious trouble with your country for your words. I somehow doubt you are who you say you are but that's quite beside the point.

You have a problem with basic english. Please show where he said he supported waterboarding.