Why are you so angry?

[bush_cheney2004]

...And very damning evidence on what the US is really up to:

And there's much more so read it all and bring yourselves up to date on what the gameplan is all about.

Yawn...we've seen that movie too. Where have you been for the last seven years?

[Carinthia]

I happen to think that it helps if everyone is fearful of a president.

When I read this nonsense the word "dictator" quickly comes to mind. As that is what you have become accustomed to with your current regime, you must be thinking this is normal.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Carinthia

[UShaditComing]

Yawn...we've seen that movie too. Where have you been for the last seven years?

Yes shady, that's your usual considered response when you get upstaged.

Same old shady.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes shady, that's your usual considered response when you get upstaged.

Same old shady.

Do you really think that MLW members have not debated such issues, and are unaware of the "PNAC". Please offer something new lest we fall asleep. Even Polynewbie could put fresh polish on old news such as this.

[August1991]

When I read this nonsense the word "dictator" quickly comes to mind. As that is what you have become accustomed to with your current regime, you must be thinking this is normal.

Both the RCMP and the Hell's Angels have guns and at a superficial level, one might imagine that they are the same. They're not. To keep the peace, it is important that people like the Hell's Angels are fearful of someone.

As John Howard is fond of saying, "Be careful what you wish for. You just may get it." If the US were to disengage from the rest of the world, the world would be far worse off.

I don't mean that the US is the world's policeman. But it must deal with threats before they become too great or serious.

[UShaditComing]

Both the RCMP and the Hell's Angels have guns and at a superficial level, one might imagine that they are the same. They're not. To keep the peace, it is important that people like the Hell's Angels are fearful of someone.

As John Howard is fond of saying, "Be careful what you wish for. You just may get it." If the US were to disengage from the rest of the world, the world would be far worse off.

I don't mean that the US is the world's policeman. But it must deal with threats before they become too great or serious.

Any particular threat the US had to deal with that you had in mind?

[August1991]

Any particular threat the US had to deal with that you had in mind?

Your argument turns on the idea that if the RCMP arrests members of the Hells Angels and puts them in prison, then the Hells Angels have the right to take RCMP officers hostage.

If this were 1940, you would be quibbling that Nazi Germany had the right to attack London because the British attacked Germany in 1939. You just don't get it. I don't care who started all this because that question is irrelevant.

The US is a modern civilized democracy where millions of people are free to go about their daily lives as they wish. It is so civilized that it has spawned self-haters like yourself who despise the very society that allows you to think and speak so freely.

[UShaditComing]

Your argument turns on the idea that if the RCMP arrests members of the Hells Angels and puts them in prison, then the Hells Angels have the right to take RCMP officers hostage.

If this were 1940, you would be quibbling that Nazi Germany had the right to attack London because the British attacked Germany in 1939. You just don't get it. I don't care who started all this because that question is irrelevant.

The US is a modern civilized democracy where millions of people are free to go about their daily lives as they wish. It is so civilized that it has spawned self-haters like yourself who despise the very society that allows you to think and speak so freely.

I'm really not interested in the personal attack but I sure don't try to discourage it. It reflects on your character more than on mine.

But let's see if we can rise above it for a while because I find your comment sort of interesting. You say you don't care who started it but you don't say what. You must mean the insurrections between the US and Al Queda. If that guess is correct then it would appear that you can justify anything which eiter side does and it's only important to you who wins in the end. That's a very odd position to take in my opinion and so I would like you to explain yourself. Are you saying that the US is justified in it's actions because it needs Iraq's oil or it needs to be the policeman of the ME. There are all sorts of justifications which are quite viable and arguable and I've argued many of them. What is yours?

[Shady]

Yes shady, that's your usual considered response when you get upstaged.

Same old shady.

Um, that response wasn't from me. Try and criticize me on things that I actually say.

[UShaditComing]

Um, that response wasn't from me. Try and criticize me on things that I actually say.

That's for when you next say something dumb.

[August1991]

But let's see if we can rise above it for a while because I find your comment sort of interesting. You say you don't care who started it but you don't say what. You must mean the insurrections between the US and Al Queda.

You don't see the difference between al-Qaeda and the US government? You don't see a difference between Saddam Hussein and Goerge Bush? Uh, do you see a difference between Winston Churchill and Adolf Hitler?

USHIC, you have raised the doubt of critical thinking to a point where you seem prepared to doubt everything. You don't see the forest for the trees. You don't realize that the society that makes it possible for you to doubt is the very society you doubt.

There are some things in this world that are good and true. They deserve to be defended. They are not just another opinion or subject of debate. Until you have lived in a totalitarian regime or under a dictatorship, until you know what it's like not to be free, I wonder whether it's possible to appreciate fully such values.

Something else, noted by American Woman in another thread. For some curious reason, you only seem to see the US in this. What about Bali? Madrid? London? What about the conspiracy in Toronto? What about the children in Beslan? What about theatre goers in Moscow? What about the ongoing insurrection in south Thailand?

It is ignorant and uultimately egocentric to reduce this down to blaming the US.

[UShaditComing]

You don't see the difference between al-Qaeda and the US government? You don't see a difference between Saddam Hussein and Goerge Bush? Uh, do you see a difference between Winston Churchill and Adolf Hitler?

I see dissimilarities and I see simlarities between George Bush and Hitler, although it could be more correctly stated as a simlarity between US foreign policy and Nazi Germany foreign policy. I understand that some Germans saw what was happening too and covertly opposed Hitler and his rise to power. In fact I know quite a bit of the history and could draw many parallels. The tactics, lies, and justifications for war which the US uses are all tried and proven to work well. Honest war historians will know this immediately.

USHIC, you have raised the doubt of critical thinking to a point where you seem prepared to doubt everything. You don't see the forest for the trees. You don't realize that the society that makes it possible for you to doubt is the very society you doubt.

This makes little sense. If you are trying to tell me that the US makes it possible to doubt then you are wrong. My own country and the laws of my country make that possible. Don't try to be so presumptious.

There are some things in this world that are good and true. They deserve to be defended. They are not just another opinion or subject of debate. Until you have lived in a totalitarian regime or under a dictatorship, until you know what it's like not to be free, I wonder whether it's possible to appreciate fully such values.

You may have a point there but you need to understand that the US war in Iraq is illegal and is based on false pretences. You also need to understand the simple message which many, many Americans are coming to understand and most Canadians understand only too well.

They will stop killing Americans over here when America stops killing them over there.

Something else, noted by American Woman in another thread. For some curious reason, you only seem to see the US in this. What about Bali? Madrid? London? What about the conspiracy in Toronto? What about the children in Beslan? What about theatre goers in Moscow? What about the ongoing insurrection in south Thailand?

THe US had it coming. The UK had it coming. Bali we can get into in more detail if you like. Beslan was terrorism against Russia for another reason and the US supported the Chechen terrorists prior to 9/11. Now they can't of course. Spain had it coming but learned it's lesson and pulled out of the US war. Now they will be safe. Canada may be hit by terrorists for it's part in Afghanistan and I hope not but if it is then it will be understandable why it happens. This is simple logic my friend.

It is ignorant and uultimately egocentric to reduce this down to blaming the US.

The US needs to be blamed but that doesn't mean that the UK is guilt free. Most British citizens oppose Blair's war too. 7/7 was also a revenge attack of course.

[UShaditComing]

August- I see that no amount of reasoning is going to change your mind so why not take a different approach with me if you need to try to change my mind. Give us a reasoned argument on why the US is in Iraq. Give us a reasoned argument why you think that the Muslim world is trying to kill Americans. Or go back to the first war against Iraq and let's do some analysis on what that was all about. You know my position is that Osama was not lying when he gave his reasons for his attack on 9/11. Deal with it in a sensible way now.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada may be hit by terrorists for it's part in Afghanistan and I hope not but if it is then it will be understandable why it happens. This is simple logic my friend.

No it's not simple logic...except for you. You are proposing that Canada not only may be attacked, but deserves to be attacked for justified "revenge", whatever that means. You have basically invited Al Qaeda to attack Canada. Great.

Edited March 9, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[UShaditComing]

No it's not simple logic...except for you. You are proposing that Canada not only may be attacked, but deserves to be attacked for justified "revenge", whatever that means. You have basically invited Al Qaeda to attack Canada. Great.

No, you're just intent on demonizing me because you don't like to admit that it's all about revenge. Why don't you try to say something worthwhile for a change. I don't think that Canada will be attacked by terrorists, as much as Americans hope we will be, but now that we have changed our stance in Afghanistan to outright fighting as opposed to our normal role as peacekeepers, I fear they are going to see Canada as just a puppet of the US aggressor. This may lead to notiions of revenge for our participation in Afghanistan.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, you're just intent on demonizing me because you don't like to admit that it's all about revenge. Why don't you try to say something worthwhile for a change. I don't think that Canada will be attacked by terrorists, as much as Americans hope we will be, but now that we have changed our stance in Afghanistan to outright fighting as opposed to our normal role as peacekeepers, I fear they are going to see Canada as just a puppet of the US aggressor. This may lead to notiions of revenge for our participation in Afghanistan.

Get a grip....Canada was killing Al Qaeda and Afghans as early as 2002. (See world record sniper shot.) Peacekeeping is the political bait and switch game played on Canadians for years, while they have no clue as to what Canadians forces are actually doing in the way of engaging and KILLING the enemy. General Hillier has tried to dispel the peacekeeping myth.

Taking your ridiculous notions of "revenge" further, I propose that Haitians begin terror bombings in Toronto at once for Canada's role in Aristide's "kidnapping" and murder of innocent Haitians.

Edited March 9, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[UShaditComing]

Bush/cheney wrote:

Taking your ridiculous notions of "revenge" further, I propose that Haitians begin terror bombings in Toronto at once.

Well now that's taking this issue to an entirely new level. You can pretend to say now that you aren't serious and you most likely will but it's too late. Maybe American woman will have something to say about this!

I would never hope or propose that Al Queda begin more terror bombing of NY city.

Disgusting, and you and your ilk are wanting to censor my name from this forum!

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush/cheney wrote:

Well now that's taking this issue to an entirely new level. You can pretend to say now that you aren't serious and you most likely will but it's too late. Maybe American woman will have something to say about this!

I would never hope or propose that Al Queda begin more terror bombing of NY city.

Disgusting, and you and your ilk are wanting to censor my name from this forum!

Good....I like to rub your nose in your own stink. How do you like it?

[UShaditComing]

Good....I like to rub your nose in your own stink. How do you like it?

Actually I liked it a lot because it revealed the real you. Just another hating American who doesn't like to hear the truth so he has to turn to that sort of tactic. Now I have you where I want you and I knew all along that you would step over the lines of decency.

Because you don't like your wars criticized right? ABut the same as American woman. See if you can get my name censored now so it doesn't challenge you and hurt your feelings. I'll just continue to play the game fairly.

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually I liked it a lot because it revealed the real you. Just another hating American who doesn't like to hear the truth so he has to turn to that sort of tactic. Now I have you where I want you and I knew all along that you would step over the lines of decency.

What a crock...see you own member name. I specialize in taking posts like yours, turning them upside down and sideways, and pushing them right back up from whence they came. Shoot your best shot.

Because you don't like your wars criticized right? ABut the same as American woman. See if you can get my name censored now so it doesn't challenge you and hurt your feelings. I'll just continue to play the game fairly.

More nonsense...we spend oodles of time criticizing wars..including yours!

[White Doors]

jbg, shady, and everyone else- I invite all you Americans to read this report on the PNAC document.

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-con...atism/pnac.html

And very damning evidence on what the US is really up to:

And there's much more so read it all and bring yourselves up to date on what the gameplan is all about.

Oh my god. People are STILL posting about the PNAC like it's some new revelation?

wow, move on people, move on..

[jbg]

It seems that McCain IS going to be president and that the Bush's will direct him on how to be president. I don't think Bush is going to sit back and let the troops come home after everything he's done to get there over there, the job is not done.

Oh yes, the same way that Cheney and other alleged malefactors directed Bush on how to be President? Now that his term's expiring does he suddenly become an "un-chimp" and make decisions?

[August1991]

I see dissimilarities and I see simlarities between George Bush and Hitler, although it could be more correctly stated as a simlarity between US foreign policy and Nazi Germany foreign policy.

I frankly don't know how to respond to you. You could travel to Europe this summer and visit a few cemeteries or the remains of a death camp. I don't know if this would help you to understand. Perhaps you should go spend a few weeks in Tehran or Damascus.

They will stop killing Americans over here when America stops killing them over there.

In this world, it is unavoidable that doubting, free-spirited westerners such as yourself are going to come into contact with intolerant non-westerners. Conflicts are inevitable.

THe US had it coming. The UK had it coming. Bali we can get into in more detail if you like. Beslan was terrorism against Russia for another reason and the US supported the Chechen terrorists prior to 9/11. Now they can't of course. Spain had it coming but learned it's lesson and pulled out of the US war. Now they will be safe. Canada may be hit by terrorists for it's part in Afghanistan and I hope not but if it is then it will be understandable why it happens. This is simple logic my friend.

The US needs to be blamed but that doesn't mean that the UK is guilt free. Most British citizens oppose Blair's war too. 7/7 was also a revenge attack of course.

This is simple nonsense. Everyone is to blame it seems.

If you can't see a difference between al-Qaeda and the US government, then there really isn't much to discuss. In your worldview, Hell's Angels are like the RCMP, and a common thug is like a policeman. There is no difference between a liar and an honest man.

You have dispensed with all morality and are willing to debate any position. If there's any consistency, it appears that you like to tweak authority and you think that's radical.

[jbg]

jbg, shady, and everyone else- I invite all you Americans to read this report on the PNAC document.

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-con...atism/pnac.html

And very damning evidence on what the US is really up to:

And there's much more so read it all and bring yourselves up to date on what the gameplan is all about.

Project for the New American Century is a neo-conservative think-tank that promotes an ideology of total U.S. world domination through the use of force. The group embraces and disseminates an ideology of faith in force, U.S. supremacy, and rejection of the rule of law in international affairs.

The group's core ideas are expressed in a September 2000 report produced for Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, and Lewis Libby entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century. The Sunday Herald referred to the report as a "blueprint for U.S. world domination."

I see nothing earth shattering about this. The peace, over the millenia, has been kept first by Romans, then Brits, then the US. Without some country in some kind of overall control one winds up with a "Dark Ages" kind of era.

[jbg]

THe US had it coming. The UK had it coming. Bali we can get into in more detail if you like. Beslan was terrorism against Russia for another reason and the US supported the Chechen terrorists prior to 9/11. Now they can't of course. Spain had it coming but learned it's lesson and pulled out of the US war. Now they will be safe. Canada may be hit by terrorists for it's part in Afghanistan and I hope not but if it is then it will be understandable why it happens. This is simple logic my friend.

The US needs to be blamed but that doesn't mean that the UK is guilt free. Most British citizens oppose Blair's war too. 7/7 was also a revenge attack of course.

Here's the best response I have for you on this. I couldn't write better words:

They want to overthrow existing governments in many Muslim countries, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. They want to drive Israel out of the Middle East. They want to drive Christians and Jews out of vast regions of Asia and Africa.

These terrorists kill not merely to end lives, but to disrupt and end a way of life. With every atrocity, they hope that America grows fearful, retreating from the world and forsaking our friends. They stand against us, because we stand in their way.

We are not deceived by their pretenses to piety. We have seen their kind before. They are the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions -- by abandoning every value except the will to power -- they follow in the path of fascism, and Nazism, and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way, to where it ends: in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies.