American Debt

[margrace]

On Sympatico/MSN/Finance an article titled US goverment tricks hide trillions in debt.

Have you read this?

[bush_cheney2004]

No, but let me guess....positive Social Security balances mask debt, and the forward looking government liabilities for entitlement programs totals into many trillions of dollars. The government also inflates assessments of federal property and real estate.

And this doesn't include state and local debt / liabilities.

So since we've already know of this and it is well documented in law, what is the big trick?

[Oleg Bach]

No, but let me guess....positive Social Security balances mask debt, and the forward looking government liabilities for entitlement programs totals into many trillions of dollars. The government also inflates assessments of federal property and real estate.

And this doesn't include state and local debt / liabilities.

So since we've already know of this and it is well documented in law, what is the big trick?

Buy more junk from China - but - make sure that material of good quality is sold to them first. Maybe upgrade their paint for them. This cheap lead based thing is not working out. Also don't buy more on credit - those cheezy action figures at Walmart are really eating up the big bucks - what does Ameican owe China for unpaid for perpetual land fill product - ka trillions..! Or in the alternative start buying vital human organs for transplant out of China.

- I hear there is a booming buisness....if we could just get the price of liver down to what Canada Packers used to sell it for - we would be out of debt and so would America with in six months - and big pharma could make billions dishing out anti-rejection drugs...after all as they say about blood and other bio- human product.."It's in you to give"..but not sell - so how is the Canadian Blood Services doing after crushing he Red Cross? Seriously - just another dark joke...The slow collapse of the empire to the south some say is being brought about by those sinister and mythical globalists. Not so! It's just that systems become so large and complex that humans are just to inept to managed said system. This was bound to happen - America peaked and as all empires do slowly falls...to bad - hope they recover.

[bush_cheney2004]

... This was bound to happen - America peaked and as all empires do slowly falls...to bad - hope they recover.

Hmmmm...Canada is already part of a failed empire....how is it "recovering"? France, Japan, Germany...the very same fate. Life is so terrible in these places now....LOL!

[August1991]

When it comes to financial magic, the government of the United States takes the prize. Sleights of hand and clever distractions by purveyors of line-of-credit mortgages, living-benefit variable annuities and equity-indexed life insurance are clumsy parlour tricks compared with the Big Magic of American politicians.

Consider the proud trumpeting that came from Washington at the close of fiscal 2007. The deficit for the unified budget was, politicians crowed, down to a mere $162.8 billion.

In fact, the U.S. government is overspending at a far greater rate. The total federal debt actually increased by $497.1 billion over the same period.

But politicians of both parties use happy numbers to distract American voters. Democrats routinely criticize the Republican administration for crippling deficits, but they politely use the least-damaging figure, the $162.8 billion. Why? Because references to more-realistic accounting would reveal vastly greater numbers and implicate both parties.

Finance/Sympatico/MSN

The problem here is that few people understand the nature of government. (The closest approximation is family and for many, they never understand that institution either. For some, it takes a lifetime to understand oneself.)

----

Is the US government in debt? Well, here's an idea or two. Are Canadian provincial governments in debt? They have liabilities far into the future for health care and yet they have no reserve funds to pay these liabilities. We have a CPP fund to cover pension benefits but the provinces have no medical benefit fund to cover medical insurance costs. Why not? An auditor would declare bankrupt any such insurance scheme.

Governments don't need savings because governments - like countries - never die. Yet individuals borrow and pay back loans and save throughout their lives.

For an individual, it is wise advice to borrow when you are young and work to pay back the debt as you grow older. Hence by logic, for a government or a country as a whole, it is wise advice to always be in debt.

Edited November 25, 2007 by August1991

[Higgly]

Governments don't need savings because governments - like countries - never die. Yet individuals borrow and pay back loans and save throughout their lives.

For an individual, it is wise advice to borrow when you are young and work to pay back the debt as you grow older. Hence by logic, for a government or a country as a whole, it is wise advice to always be in debt.

Yes. Bonds are a great way to invest in your country. The rate on the bond is indicative of the quality of the investment. Nothing wrOng with bonds at all, at least until the rate starts to get too far out of hand....

[GostHacked]

Debt is going up all over the place.

Thing is, everyone owes everyone else, the way the globalists have done it, is to share the debt across many countries. If I am going down, bring you all with me. Tie it all in so one factor affects all. YAY for integration.

We can take most cities situations before Almalgamation happened. My father worked for the Region of Sudbury driving plow/spreader ect. There was also another department for the CITY of Sudbury, doing much of the same but within the city proper limits, the region took care of all other areas. Now that the City and Region have been combined, they are now swimming in debt. With the old two seperate entities, both were operating at a surplus most years.

The debt in the US is expected to hit trillions. Does not help when accounting practices are not the best. Remember good ol Donald Rumsfeld? Saying that the Pentagon could not account for 1.3 trillion dollars? But phhhh it is only 1.3 trillion. And this is just in the Pentagon. Who knows what kind of crappy bookkeeping is done at other departments of the US Government. Our Canadian government is the same way.

I deman receipts for my so called hard working tax dollars. I demand better people to manage the money. I demand better.

When corporations move overseas to make more profit for the same item (very low labour standars, lax environmental standards...and there is no way you can garuntee me quality assurance in many of these places. My clothes fall apart alot faster now than they used to. This list goes on.

When a corporation moves to a country where cheap labour is there are many things that happen.

1. job loss

2. many of those loosing jobs end up on social assistance in order to live

3. middle class now becomes the poor class

4. poor people can only buy shit products made overseas.

5. poor people cannot financially contribute to the country (low wages, low taxes)

This is why Walmart is so popular. No one cares where the product is made. We also have the mentality now that cheap products can easily be replaced with another cheap product. Are you really saving any money? Or are you getting nickle and dimed to financial death?

I buy a 10 dollar item Made in Canada or the USA (even then that is deceiving) and it lasts be 10 years. I buy the same item at 1 dollar made in China, do you really think this thing will even last a year? If that is the case, then you are already loosing time, effort and money. For instead of one trip to buy a quality item, you now make over 10 trips (time spent, fuel spent, wear and tear on your vehicle ect ect) Not only that money and energy is being spent to move all that stuff from an overseas facility.

The sucky thing is this weekend I spent 1400 on my new computer. Most of the stuff is made overseas. I just hope it lasts 4 years.

[margrace]

every week there is another plant closing, 300 there, 100 here, but no one cares. They turn up at the food bank, they go on welfare but no one cares except to slam those using these facilities. What a self centred world we live in, the Chinese people work for nothing, we cannot afford our dumps, something is wrong here.

[M.Dancer]

every week there is another plant closing, 300 there, 100 here, but no one cares. They turn up at the food bank, they go on welfare but no one cares except to slam those using these facilities. What a self centred world we live in, the Chinese people work for nothing, we cannot afford our dumps, something is wrong here.

That being said, our unemployment is at one of the lowest points in recent memory.

[bush_cheney2004]

....When a corporation moves to a country where cheap labour is there are many things that happen.

1. job loss

2. many of those loosing jobs end up on social assistance in order to live

3. middle class now becomes the poor class

4. poor people can only buy shit products made overseas.

5. poor people cannot financially contribute to the country (low wages, low taxes)

Oh, but it was OK to move American autoworker, call center, and software development jobs to Canada, right?

[GostHacked]

Oh, but it was OK to move American autoworker, call center, and software development jobs to Canada, right?

*slaps my forehead*

If you would stop and think for a moment, we might have a decent conversation. They moved the jobs to Canada, found out we cost just as much as the US workers, so they moved to Mexico. Then overseas. Don't blame Canada for US Corporations raping you at every chance they get. Those companies came into Canada, built centers, and then left to build another facility in a cheaper country. Stop blaming Canada for everything the US is doing. But with your logic BC, Canada can do exactly as the US does, so whatever right?

So you blame Canada for a decision by a US corporation. You are the blame shifter indeed. Transgressional blame shifter.

If you really disagree with things I have stated, then please go on. If you can stay within the context of what I am saying then please continue.

[Oleg Bach]

*slaps my forehead*

If you would stop and think for a moment, we might have a decent conversation. They moved the jobs to Canada, found out we cost just as much as the US workers, so they moved to Mexico. Then overseas. Don't blame Canada for US Corporations raping you at every chance they get. Those companies came into Canada, built centers, and then left to build another facility in a cheaper country. Stop blaming Canada for everything the US is doing. But with your logic BC, Canada can do exactly as the US does, so whatever right?

So you blame Canada for a decision by a US corporation. You are the blame shifter indeed. Transgressional blame shifter.

If you really disagree with things I have stated, then please go on. If you can stay within the context of what I am saying then please continue.

It's just the slave trade rearing it's head - Amerians have been sold by a few jerks...and the influx of say Mexican illegals are just slaves that the Mexican Mafia just does not want to feed - they are rich enough and are disposing of surplus slaves - and Washington is assisting at the expense of their own citizens that are being displaced and marginalized - China! - well to do "trade" with this massive colony of slaves - is what is destroying the quality of life in America - a few high on the food chain who sold this wonderful nation out - believe that they are immune from the results of this great betrayal..but in time even they will suffer - and it will look good on them. The economic system has become so insidiously complex that it is unmanagable unless oppressive measures are taken by "un-elected" authoritarians...and that oppression is coming full force and can not be stopped - we have a run away train - even Greenspan who managed the fiat currency does not have a clue how to manage this mess.

[bush_cheney2004]

*slaps my forehead*

If you would stop and think for a moment, we might have a decent conversation. They moved the jobs to Canada, found out we cost just as much as the US workers, so they moved to Mexico. Then overseas. Don't blame Canada for US Corporations raping you at every chance they get. Those companies came into Canada, built centers, and then left to build another facility in a cheaper country. Stop blaming Canada for everything the US is doing. But with your logic BC, Canada can do exactly as the US does, so whatever right?

Right, so why are bitching at me? Canada provided tax incentives to sweeten the pot as well, but you don't mention that.

So you blame Canada for a decision by a US corporation. You are the blame shifter indeed. Transgressional blame shifter.

There is no blame...just economic decisions. So stop whining.

If you really disagree with things I have stated, then please go on. If you can stay within the context of what I am saying then please continue.

I will do as I please, thank you very much. So sue me for exposing your rants as hollow.

Edited November 27, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

Bush Cheney

Oh, but it was OK to move American autoworker, call center, and software development jobs to Canada, right?

Right, so why are bitching at me?

There is no blame...just economic decisions. So stop whining.

Sound advice Bush Cheney, but you rarely post with that advice in mind. And your last post lacked substance my 'friend'. But that is what I expected from you.

Okay, Canada dangled a carrot in those US corporations faces. Who bit the carrot? Was it our fault for offering? Or the companies fault for buying into it. But you don't seems to have the understanding there are two sides to the coin. Blame others when it benefits you. Shift the blame. Phhffff,,, it is never ME, it is always the OTHER guy that screws up. Uh huh. Stop whining indeed.

Oleg Bach, Crooked politicians and greedy corporations are to blame. Regardless of their nationality. It does seem like someone sold the US down the river. Not only does moving production facilities over to China make things cheaper for US/Canadian consumers, it also gives China the technology needed to take them to the next level. China owes much of their recent technological advances to US/Canada/UK Multinational corporations manufacturing high tech equipment in China. So China gains economicly and technologicly. Where are most of your electronics made these days? ANY piece of electronic technology.

My work laptop here is a Toshiba, and it was made in China.

My handheld scanner guns are made in Mexico.

My forklift computers are made in Malaysia.

The lithium ion batteries are "Cell origin Japan", but "Further processed in China".

Remember when Made in Japan was coveted? Remember when Made in the USA meant something? Remember the quality you got when you hade an item Made in Canada? I challenge evereyone to find a piece of modern electronics that is widely used that is made in the USA, Canada, Britian, France, Germany..even Japan for that matter.

[Topaz]

If you want something to concern about is the talks to change the legal tender from C$$ and US$$ to the North AMerican 'AMERO". Stephen Jarislowsky, money manager and investor of Globe&Mail newspaper is talking to Canadian parliamentay committees to change to the Amero so North America can compete against the Euro. One poll I saw said Canadians were agaisnt it! This should be a issue in the US elections and see were the candidate stand on this. I don't think Americans would go for this either. The plan would be that the North american Central Bank would issue new currency and sit over the Bank of Canada and the Federal Reserve Bank in the US. The Fed. Reserve is a private bank and been scamming the US public for years, no thanks.

[runningdog]

If you want something to concern about is the talks to change the legal tender from C$$ and US$$ to the North AMerican 'AMERO". Stephen Jarislowsky, money manager and investor of Globe&Mail newspaper is talking to Canadian parliamentay committees to change to the Amero so North America can compete against the Euro. One poll I saw said Canadians were agaisnt it! This should be a issue in the US elections and see were the candidate stand on this. I don't think Americans would go for this either. The plan would be that the North american Central Bank would issue new currency and sit over the Bank of Canada and the Federal Reserve Bank in the US. The Fed. Reserve is a private bank and been scamming the US public for years, no thanks.

yep, heard about this...needs way more investigation.

[jawapunk]

Yuo should just ignore anything Bush_Cheney has to say. His self appointed position on this forum has been to post to every thread discussing American politics or issues and tell us we have pretty much no business commenting, that our thoughts do not matter and that we should merely concern ourselves with Canadian problems.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush Cheney

Sound advice Bush Cheney, but you rarely post with that advice in mind. And your last post lacked substance my 'friend'. But that is what I expected from you.

Okay, Canada dangled a carrot in those US corporations faces. Who bit the carrot? Was it our fault for offering? Or the companies fault for buying into it. But you don't seems to have the understanding there are two sides to the coin. Blame others when it benefits you. Shift the blame. Phhffff,,, it is never ME, it is always the OTHER guy that screws up. Uh huh. Stop whining indeed.

Duh! But it is you who whines ad nauseam about the loss of such jobs. I went to Shanghai in the late 90's for technology tranfer of high tech coatings and lamination processes. Labor is just labor....it is not sacred in Canada or the USA.

Oleg Bach, Crooked politicians and greedy corporations are to blame. Regardless of their nationality. It does seem like someone sold the US down the river. Not only does moving production facilities over to China make things cheaper for US/Canadian consumers, it also gives China the technology needed to take them to the next level. China owes much of their recent technological advances to US/Canada/UK Multinational corporations manufacturing high tech equipment in China. So China gains economicly and technologicly. Where are most of your electronics made these days? ANY piece of electronic technology.

It is not all made in China....one item was actually manufactured in Quebec...or Ireland...or Mexico...and even Japan. However, my most treasured "electronics" were manufactured in the US of A.

My work laptop here is a Toshiba, and it was made in China.

My handheld scanner guns are made in Mexico.

My forklift computers are made in Malaysia.

The lithium ion batteries are "Cell origin Japan", but "Further processed in China".

Remember when Made in Japan was coveted? Remember when Made in the USA meant something? Remember the quality you got when you hade an item Made in Canada? I challenge evereyone to find a piece of modern electronics that is widely used that is made in the USA, Canada, Britian, France, Germany..even Japan for that matter.

Remember when "Made in Japan" was CRAP? Now that is some serious whining!

Edited December 1, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

Bush Cheney.... then show me a common electronic widley available electronic item that has a MADE IN THE USA stamp. All your computer components are made and assembled in China. Might be more accurate to say. MADE ON EARTH. :/ If some components came from Quebec, why are we not informed of that?

Also, MADE IN THE USA (food wise) is made from contaminated gluten from China. So the MADE IN brand is just plainly false.

Labor is just labor....it is not sacred in Canada or the USA.

Skilled labour is where you need to invest your money. If Labour is just labour, then your job whatever it is can be exported and you can be rendered useless. You might want to be more specific about what the 'labour' is.

You have not seen my whine yet. When you do, you will want to take yourself off this board and never come back. There is also that lovely IGNORE feature we have here on the board. Go ahead put my on your ignore list if I whine too much.

[margrace]

Bush Cheney.... then show me a common electronic widley available electronic item that has a MADE IN THE USA stamp. All your computer components are made and assembled in China. Might be more accurate to say. MADE ON EARTH. :/ If some components came from Quebec, why are we not informed of that?

Also, MADE IN THE USA (food wise) is made from contaminated gluten from China. So the MADE IN brand is just plainly false.

Skilled labour is where you need to invest your money. If Labour is just labour, then your job whatever it is can be exported and you can be rendered useless. You might want to be more specific about what the 'labour' is.

You have not seen my whine yet. When you do, you will want to take yourself off this board and never come back. There is also that lovely IGNORE feature we have here on the board. Go ahead put my on your ignore list if I whine too much.

Here is an example of the pro's and con's of skilled labour. Our governments have seen fit to take any training in Agriculture out of the school system, especailly for people who might be hired to work on the farms directly. In a time when a tractor can cost 150 thousand dollars and a milking parlour 1 million farmers cannot afford to hire off the street with no training.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush Cheney.... then show me a common electronic widley available electronic item that has a MADE IN THE USA stamp. All your computer components are made and assembled in China. Might be more accurate to say. MADE ON EARTH. :/ If some components came from Quebec, why are we not informed of that?

Nonsense.....my CPUs were manufactured in Malaysia, but the materials for pin grid arrays that make them possible came from the USA. My father-in-law's hearing aid was made in his home state...by Americans...as will be a pacemaker, if he ever needs one. Numerous industrial and consumer controls products are still made in the USA. Even Japanese manufacturers have plants for consumer items and parts in the USA.

My lighting controls and cable television amplifiers were made in Quebec, Canada. They replaced inferior products made in China. My favorite consumer electronics item will never be made in China...it is made just outside of Rockford, Illinois.

Also, MADE IN THE USA (food wise) is made from contaminated gluten from China. So the MADE IN brand is just plainly false.

I don't eat dog/cat food.

Skilled labour is where you need to invest your money. If Labour is just labour, then your job whatever it is can be exported and you can be rendered useless. You might want to be more specific about what the 'labour' is.

My "job" cannot be exported...but it can be imported.

You have not seen my whine yet. When you do, you will want to take yourself off this board and never come back. There is also that lovely IGNORE feature we have here on the board. Go ahead put my on your ignore list if I whine too much.

No, I enjoy your whining.

[Higgly]

If you want something to concern about is the talks to change the legal tender from C$$ and US$$ to the North AMerican 'AMERO". Stephen Jarislowsky, money manager and investor of Globe&Mail newspaper is talking to Canadian parliamentay committees to change to the Amero so North America can compete against the Euro. One poll I saw said Canadians were agaisnt it! This should be a issue in the US elections and see were the candidate stand on this. I don't think Americans would go for this either. The plan would be that the North american Central Bank would issue new currency and sit over the Bank of Canada and the Federal Reserve Bank in the US. The Fed. Reserve is a private bank and been scamming the US public for years, no thanks.

I it comes to a decision that pits what's good for Canada against what's good for the US, guess what will happen? The Euro worked because Europe is more or less a community of equals. That is not what we have in North America. The Canadian economy is about the same size of that of California. An AMERO would be a US controlled currency.

[marcinmoka]

The Euro worked because Europe is more or less a community of equals.

I take it you have never been.

Pitting the economic levels of Portugal against that of Germany makes the difference between Canada and U.S seem trivial.

------------------------

I challenge evereyone to find a piece of modern electronics that is widely used that is made in the USA, Canada, Britian, France, Germany..even Japan for that matter.

My camera. A German engineered lens milled in Midland, Ont, with a body & processor produced and assembled by Matsushita in Japan. And this was a fairly low level product, and very commonly used. Once you get into the upper echelons, you would be a fool to offer anything not produced in either Japan, Sweden or Germany.

Edited December 6, 2007 by marcinmoka

[Riverwind]

Pitting the economic levels of Portugal against that of Germany makes the difference between Canada and U.S seem trivial.

The difference is there are many Portugals in Europe which collectively have a weight equal to the big players. This creates a completely different dynamic. A North American currency would be indistinguishable from the US$.

[marcinmoka]

The difference is there are many Portugals in Europe which collectively have a weight equal to the big players.

Many Portugals? Economically speaking, maybe Slovenia and Greece. And if you think that those little nations have "equal" power to the big players (i.e. the collective Franco-German 'motor'), dream on. In fact, that is almost laughable, since even Italy, which is a quasi-big player has almost no impact at the E.C.B, and I doubt Cyprus will have better luck.

Besides, the purpose of any Central Bank, at least in the developed world is to act to the stability of the overall economy and without political interference.

Edited December 6, 2007 by marcinmoka