How best to defend our values against Suicide Bombers?

[AngusThermopyle]

This is very interesting. I've made mention of a documentary dealing with this subject before, its called "Suicide Killers". They interviewed suicide bombers both in prison in Israel and "in the wild". One question they asked was why? The answer was surprising and shocking.

The respondents did not state ideology or revenge as their primary reason for doing this, they said it was because they wanted to get married. Yep, its true. As they explained it, in order to be married they had to own something of substance, or have a dowry.When one considers the economy of Palestine it becomes obvious that for a young man to gain some assets is almost impossible. Likewise for the females dowry, so they become bombers.

Now most sane people would ask how blowing ones self up will enable marriage. Well in their view the host of virgins they've been promised will become their brides. The females point of view is that they will be the promised virgins and thus snag some swarthy bomber, one of the favored of Allah. Yep, seems totally absurd, but it was straight from the mouths of the captured bombers themselves.

Especially chilling was the interview with the suicide bomber "in the wild". When he stated that he'd be overjoyed to walk into a nursery full of babies and detonate, it made my blood run cold. In his view killing babies would be a great service to Allah.

I recommend this movie as a must see for even those with merely a passing interest in such subjects. I can honestly say that its one of the most fascinating movies I've seen in a long time.

[Oleg Bach]

This is very interesting. I've made mention of a documentary dealing with this subject before, its called "Suicide Killers". They interviewed suicide bombers both in prison in Israel and "in the wild". One question they asked was why? The answer was surprising and shocking.

The respondents did not state ideology or revenge as their primary reason for doing this, they said it was because they wanted to get married. Yep, its true. As they explained it, in order to be married they had to own something of substance, or have a dowry.When one considers the economy of Palestine it becomes obvious that for a young man to gain some assets is almost impossible. Likewise for the females dowry, so they become bombers.

Now most sane people would ask how blowing ones self up will enable marriage. Well in their view the host of virgins they've been promised will become their brides. The females point of view is that they will be the promised virgins and thus snag some swarthy bomber, one of the favored of Allah. Yep, seems totally absurd, but it was straight from the mouths of the captured bombers themselves.

Especially chilling was the interview with the suicide bomber "in the wild". When he stated that he'd be overjoyed to walk into a nursery full of babies and detonate, it made my blood run cold. In his view killing babies would be a great service to Allah.

I recommend this movie as a must see for even those with merely a passing interest in such subjects. I can honestly say that its one of the most fascinating movies I've seen in a long time.

Carry a jar of stinky old bacon grease tied to your neck - that way a Muslim fanatical sucide bomber will get smeared with flying pig juice when he blows you up and will not get to heaven to make love to that old 72 year old toothless virgin - or is it 72 virgins? Oh well - the smart ones in Israel always keep a bucket of pig fat on their buses and it seems to keep the lunitics from blowing things up.......pig fat - smear everything with pig fat - that should do it!

[AngusThermopyle]

You know, your bacon grease observation could have merit. I've heard some people state that any Terrorist they kill should be buried wrapped in a pig skin. It would be one way to send the message that they aren't going to heaven or getting a bunch of virgins and young boys.

[Rue]

Someone asked what makes a suice bomber...what makes a suicide bomber is a series of ingredients;

1-tender age; i.e., they are of an age where their frontal lobes have not fully developed and so they do not yet have social inhibitions developed to such a degree that it makes them think through compulsibe or impulsive thoughts-its why young people have no sense of danger and see things black and white-the part of their brain that needs to develop to see nuance and something between the extremes as well as a biological imperative to survive which holds them back from anything violent or danger still has not yet developed and its why must suicide bomebrs are children or young people not adults;

2-a social environment where values are expressed and experienced in black and whites or extremes; i.e., the prevalent ideology presents concepts as very rigid and dogmatic with no critical thought;

3-the means of spiritual worship, education and thought processes in the environment are controlled by a central organ, i.e. a state apperatus which controls all of this and is able to get to children as soon as they are 3 and control all of the above and successfully seperate children from their parents;

4-a society which defines individuality and the expression of individuality as evil and in need of repressing;

5-extreme poverty-lack of any employment, lack of sewage, water, electricity, a physical environment that keeps the physical body covered in dirt and open sores from the dirt;

6-malnutrition which robs the brain of vital nutrients it otherwise needs to develop specific neuro-transmitters that are needed to conceive and perceive in flexible terms or in terms other then simpistic black and white-malnutrition leads to permanent brain damage making people easier to control as the brain damage makes them more susceptible to auto-suggestion, violent mood swings, brief attention spans, and overwhelming feelings of anxiety that can quickly be alleviated through acts of violence;

7-an environment where the person to be recruited as a suicide bomber has seen repeated violence and death which serves to desensitivize any remaining inhibitions as to violence;

8-adults who will think nothing of recruiting and exploiting children;

9-repeat 1-8 above but particularly for anyone with an added life limitation, i.e., disability, gender, gender preference that adds to their feeling weak;

10-add up 1-9 and then for the next to last ingredient recruit which us used to recruit these children and lead them to believe their lack of control is a weakness..a spiritual failure...and they must loath themselves for having this moral failure..and the only way to not be a failure is to blow themselves up...the self-loathing taught to these children is done by taking 1-9 and using it to manipulate the feelings of lack of control and powerlessenss to such a level of fenzy that the recruit desperately needs relief and escape;

11-and finally adults who weave stories of heaven and utopia as the reward for the violence.

True suicide bombers are whipped into a state of auto-suggestion and frenzy. They can not oeprate otherwise. A genuine socio-path with no feelings who can kill will never allow themselves to be used for anyone else's causes.

Ideal killers who have no feelings manipulate. Suicide bombers are fatigued, protein defficient, sensory deprived, and suffering from cognitive and emotional impairment at the time of their attack-its why many have blank eyes and actually are quiet and do not scream before they pull the switch they are all but dead except for their physical bodies before they blow up.

A suicide bomber whose eyes reflect doubt can be talked down. Once they are blank, its too late.

From an operative point of view the only thing that can be done to contain suicide bombers is to restrict their movement through a series of check points that makes it impossible for them to move freely and making it more likely they get intercepted. Its not foolproof. Its easy to get by these check points so the more check points, the more chance of not slipping through them all. The check points necessarily also have to stop the innocent. The check points have to be manned by visible symbols of authority that breed resentment in the eyes of the people restricted from moving. Security walls, camoflaged security detectors in the ground, satellite ohotoes, drones, undercover operatives, informants, parents, other children, all may play a role in early detection and prevention but there are no guarantees.

It is not human nature to suspect a disabled person, a pregnant woman, a child, someone with down's syndrome or an elderly person to carry bombs but they can-the physical appearance of a suicide bomber is as variable in shape as sand blowing in the wind.

What makes a suicide bomber is a mind that can not flex it can only see rigid, simplistic, basic concepts which it feels are not capable of making sense. The act of terror requires the mind to replace thought with a primal scream. Its not hard to do. Its easy to illicit the primal scream within any human within 5 minutes. All that it requires is setting of a stress response.

Anyone of us can be manpulated into lashing out with violence with very simple methods of incitement or agitation. The same thing that makes humans social creatures makes us violent prone creatures.

[DogOnPorch]

Someone asked what makes a suice bomber...what makes a suicide bomber is a series of ingredients...

How do you account for the London bombers? Educated...not poor...well fed...living in the UK. Same goes for the fellows who attempted the airport bombings...doctors and whatnot. Me thinks most of those ingredients you listed are not part of the recipe. However, extremism and fanaticism sure are.

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Some people are more terrorist than others.

---John Keegan

[Drea]

If you lived abroad... say in Yemen.

And Yemenese people in your home country on the North American continent were invading and wantonly killing North Americans on a daily basis, would you become a fanatical North American while in Yemen?

Would you support your fellow North Americans back home? Or would you side with the Yemenese because you live in their country?

The west needs to wean itself off of oil and get the hell out of the middle east.

Cut off all trade with them completely if need be, but GET THE HELL OUT! It is not our business how they choose to run their countries (unless we need the oil and therefore have a "stake" in it).

[DogOnPorch]

If you lived abroad... say in Yemen.

And Yemenese people in your home country on the North American continent were invading and wantonly killing North Americans on a daily basis, would you become a fanatical North American while in Yemen?

Would you support your fellow North Americans back home? Or would you side with the Yemenese because you live in their country?

So...the British have invaded Pakistan at some point? Also, if I recall, the London bombers were born in England. That's a pretty poor analogy...especially the sensationalist wanton killing bit. Or...are you saying we should lump all Muslims together? An attack on one is an attack on all? Well maybe our worst fears re: Islam are right if that's the case.

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...bed goes up...bed goes down...bed goes up...bed goes down...

---Homer Simpson

Edited February 12, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[White Doors]

You know, your bacon grease observation could have merit. I've heard some people state that any Terrorist they kill should be buried wrapped in a pig skin. It would be one way to send the message that they aren't going to heaven or getting a bunch of virgins and young boys.

tried before and it worked.

British general (I believe in Sudan) in the 1800's.

The made it known that they dipped all of their bullets in pig's blood.

[DogOnPorch]

tried before and it worked.

British general (I believe in Sudan) in the 1800's.

The made it known that they dipped all of their bullets in pig's blood.

Not to mention the rumor of pig grease being used on Britain's musket cartridges set off the Sepoy Rebellion.

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But after we'd reached the battery he'd barely paused to exchange a cut or two with the Ruski gunners before heading for home and safety again. Shocking bad form for a commander, says I, who was trying to hide under a gun limber at the time...

---Sir Harry Flashman

[Rue]

How do you account for the London bombers? Educated...not poor...well fed...living in the UK. Same goes for the fellows who attempted the airport bombings...doctors and whatnot. Me thinks most of those ingredients you listed are not part of the recipe. However, extremism and fanaticism sure are.

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Some people are more terrorist than others.

---John Keegan

Excellent point. I was only talking about terrorists in the Gaza and West Bank who I have witnessed and lievd with. I should have clarified that. Sorry.

Your point raises another excellent example of another profile of terrorist-a person of privilege. Carlos the Jackal, Osama Ben Laden, many others, came from very affluent environments where no one told them no. One psychological theory is their political extremism is nothing more then a murderous tantrum as they grow and realize they can't have it all their way.

I concede these theories as to what makes a terrorist are only possible explanations. You and I know there is always an exception with any human and any predictions as to human behaviour when all is said and done are guesses. Touche.

[August1991]

This is the empitimy of left wing progressivist thinking: if I close my eyes it will all go away and "everything will be ok because it always works itself out". Actually, in reality it rarely has throughout human history. The American moment in history as it were has mercifully been a brief period of prosperity, happiness and freedom preceded by centuries of opression, dictatorship and misery. Many fundamentailst Muslims would have us go back. Lefties speak as if the evils of nazism, communism, slavery, fascism were not defeated by a strong will to prevail, and a WAR, but rather because we all just ignored them for long enough.

Jerry, IMV, this was one of your best posts.

North American Leftists fight last year's battle. (Warren Kinsella is against Nazis.)

Years ago, when the Nazis truly threatened the world, many Leftists argued for peace and understanding. Chamberlain: Why can't we all get along? Fortunately, because of the sacrifice (they died) of so many young guys so many years ago, we today enjoy peace and free travel abroad.

IOW, too many believe that this freedom that we all enjoy just happened. They believe that it was inevitable and progressive. Freedom? Progressive? To them, at most, our freedoms and the progession of our society is the result of union activists and progressive politicians such as Tommy Douglas. No?

And what of all the cementeries in Europe where young Canadian men are buried?

Edited February 23, 2008 by August1991

[myata]

Since Japan and Lebanon, we are facing a new version of organized stupidity. We in the West face organized people who use our technology to fight us. 200 years ago, Napoleon inspired soldiers to fight voluntarily. Fifty years ago, American soldiers faced Kamikaze soldiers. We now face Islamic suicide bombers.

We face organized psychopathy. What do we do?

Oops sorry I'm late here, just wanted to point out that the original premise doesn't really hold water. We could have said something like that if we lived peacefully and quietly on another continent and all our interactions with the "psychopaths" (or rather, places they seem to come from) were through honest fair trade and peaceful and respectful diplomacy. You can surely see how much of this imaginary scenario relate to actual reality.

Now in human societies, people don't easily submit to external manipulation and control. Unfortunately for the benevolent masters, who always know best what's good for others, people insist on doing things their own way. And when and if they aren't allowed so, they get upset and start to resist. And the resistance won't stop even if the masters are grossly superior in force - it'll simply find another way; the way which creates greatest bang for the effort; by trial and error; like water seeping through the ground. You can call it third law of human dynamics - every action creates counteraction.

From the above there follows a simple and efficient way to defend "our values": live up to them; but, with an important caveat, always and everywhere. People are intelligent bunch and will return the favour in the way it was delivered.

Finally I hope you understand that this is not an apology of anything. Pointing out the dangers of standing under a roof loaded with hanging ice (line the one I'm looking on now) isn't apologizing "killer ice", no matter how tragic the consequence may be.