overthere

how much 'closer' to consensus is required, in your opinion, to move forward on any of thse projects? Since what should be a technical and economic decision for the nation, is now going to include ill defined notions of 'increased consultation' and 'social license' elements- what specific metrics would you suggest is 'close enough' for approval? Keep in mind that Northern Gateway was approved with 209 NEB conditions, BC had 5 conditions and an unknown number of First Nations objections and some First Nations support. The Mackenzie Valley federal govt/NEB process took about 37 years overall and ended up with "264 environmental, financial and cultural" conditions. Of coursde, by then the proponets of the project were not the same people who could finance the project(and by then, the affected Firsdt Nations supported it) Are these the kind of metrics that you would approve? Or?

Broadbent is one of those character actors that many people recognize but cannot name. I reckon he is one of the great non-leading actors of thisor any time. Check him out (as a lead) in Another Year which is directed by the wonderful Mike Leigh. I liked Brooklyn, it is straightforward , gentle romance in a genre rarely seen today. Good date movie, especially for those easily offended as there is no sex violence or harsh languiage.

another thing about playing in leagues other than the CHL in Canada.... I am not so sure they develop players so well for the grit and grind of NHL life. No dou I am just assuming that the Oilers will win the #1 pick again..... bt the Swiss league will help Matthews, but it is not as fierce as a WHL or OHL season.

Stolen from Twitter feed, but still funny. 20 games minimum, the linesman spent the night in hospital and reportedly has a concussion. Looks to me like Wideman took a step to his left to drill him in the back. The whole opposition bench saw it, watch their reaction.

Oh please. There will never be consensus, which everybody except you seems to get. Trudeau certainly does. Delay....delay... and lets talk some more.... and the likelihood that it will ever be built gets more and more remote. The first step is to slow down the NEB, because if the NEB registers a decision to go ahead in some distant time and future, then Trudeau has to actually make the call. The builders of the line, and more importantly the folks who put the oil in it, will just give up . They cannot dick around here forever. They saw what went down the Mackenzie Valley Pipleine. Nothing except their money. .. And Guess Who was PM for that particular clusterf**k? C;mon , guess.

I regret that you've missed the point again. His decision to delay , is a decision in this circumstance. There is nothing to gain by delaying the building of infrastructure(with private money), sicne that money will sooner rather than later just say 'f**k it, let's go somewhere else and see if they want the jobs'. And it is one that may have very grave consequences. Real leaders do not 'balance'. I acknowledge that Trudeau wants everybody to be happy, everybody to love him, and for the economy to leave the enerrgy/commodity sector for an undefined and sunny future filled with resourceful diverse Canadians. But wishing and hoping don't get the business back here. Wishing and hoping that somehow the NEB can build a consensus on a controversy won't make it all go away. But waiting and delaying will make it go away. It is cheap and cowardly, though admittedly it has convinced some people that there is some form os assessment happening when it fact it is a rejection of an entire economic sector. The pipleines will not be built. The blow to the economy won't be offset.

Yep, that particular poster always picks The Cuban Way: I don't have it, so you don't want it.

Problem is that so much content is owned by the cable networks themselves. Jays and the NHL are tied to Sportsnet, for example.

Oh, and one of the most interesting things Trudeau has said, is that he plans to be a 'responsible referee', not a cheerleader for the pipelines. Referees are impartial, they have no interest in the outcome of the game, the result is not their gain or loss. That would work if this was a competition of some sort. But it is not. The revenue from commodity exports like oil, gas, potash, minerals, lumber, food and other things are what fund our lifestyle. They pay for the existing social contract, all the lovely things we hold dear in this country. How the f**k does he step away from that? Because the net result of pushing back(and effectively killing) pipelines and ports is not that they don't get built, that is not the worst result. . The worse result is that those producers who fil the pipleine decide that Canada had only risk and no reward. When that happens, we start to most closely resemble Venezuela. It is being increasingly clear to me that we have elected a politician, that so far is not a leader in any sense. What frightens me most is that I don't think he understands the situation, the implications of doing nothing. Even worse is if he understands the situation and makes statementsd like this.

Agreed. We are not suckers, though, but fools, because I do not blame anybody but ourselves for the lack of national will to accomplish...... anything. Including what would appear to be somehtthng as simple as repeating an engineering exercise we have already done, to the tune of 100000 installed kms of pipelines. We should not compare ourselves to Iraq or Saudi Arabia, but to Western democracies like Norway, USA and especially Australia. All three have been and continue to conprehensively eat out lunch on selling a global commodity. The US and Norway act coherently, between business and government they cooperate to ensure that the product is able to get to market. In the US, there are pipleines now buiult, refineries upgraded and ports ready to export oil for the first time in over 40 years. Their market: Europe and Asia. The US govt repealed the law that prevented US oil exports. In the meantime, Obama makes with the old blahblah about the environment, while quietly ensuring that his country is well positioned in all the ways that matter. Is it a coincidence that he denies what is essentially a competing supplier and product in Keystone XL? Is it a coincdence that the other part of the network puzzle, called Keystone, was built quickly and without fuss to deliver US oil to the Gulf refineries and ports? Not likely times 2! But a better comparison is Australia.. They are a similar size economically to Canada. They are even more dependent on commodity export. They have no problems building infrastructure. The are IMO quite a bit further left than Canada politically, with if anything a larger stronger social contract.. They have developed a large export LNG industry- and they have gobbled up markets and market share that we cannot touch for a generation because we are arguing about it all endlessly. We are paralyzed. The pipelines won't be built. Trudeau has done the politically astute thing, delaying. He has no interest in them, they are no part of his future.

Yes, Ms May would like to see all projects assessed in the same way that the Macknezie Valley piepline project was done. What was it , 15 years? 18 years? Luckily for her, so does Trudeau. The only honest one of the three is Mulcair. He starts out from the premise that all pipelines are bad and do not need to have hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on evaluating projects that aren't going to happen no matter what. And he is right. What ultimately is the purpose of this gong show? The result is predetermined. The reality is that the bar for 'consensus' is now so high it cannot possibly be reached.

No. not this time. This deal is dead dead dead. We just have to go through a few years of handwringing and national theater before all the pipelines to tidewater are formally kaput. They allowed Enbridge to reverse the line 9 because it terminates in Montreal. Jobs. Montreal overnight lost sending oil west, but gained oil coming from the west. Its better than nothing. But Energy East is a far bigger deal. And all the supposed support is pretence. What has hap[pened in the last couple days has opened the kimono in Ottawa. The turd is truly on the table now. Mr Trudeau is writhing in a orgasmic paroxysm of self induced bliss with the excitement of dramatic social experiment, because he is of the strong opinion that he can transform our economy simply by saying so. Don't forget for a second who his strongest influence was, and what he did. If that means a few hundred thousand resource workers get economically cornholed en route to his Brave New World, so be it. None of them vote for him anyway.

these Peggers are novices in the world of sausage. This is the site of the worlds biggest kielbasa, outside Mundare Alberta, a mighty iconic Roadside Attraction https://www.google.ca/search?q=largest+sausage+in+the+world&biw=1246&bih=665&tbm=isch&imgil=iOrZZzDAbhEOXM%253A%253BYaRGa9zQxAY-GM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.roadsideamerica.com%25252Ftip%25252F8254&source=iu&pf=m&fir=iOrZZzDAbhEOXM%253A%252CYaRGa9zQxAY-GM%252C_&usg=__PU9j4PGVzDpZT8shYG_exO8BODc%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjQ1cvZ9crKAhUY4GMKHYxrBWsQyjcIJg&ei=XDSpVtC3CJjAjwOM15XYBg#imgrc=iOrZZzDAbhEOXM%3A I confess I have made the pilgrimage to Mundare to view this impressive link. I say with all respect that it does actually resemble a very large turd.

Thanks for linking that Waldo, I was just about to. Yep, those are the brand new requirements for Kinder Morgan and Trans Canada. In due course, the NEB will tell those firms what more is required of them. Trdueau has already told them though, he expects them to gain full consensus and a social licence, which is pretty laughable. He , on behalf of the people of Canada, intends to do neither. Actually, he intends to do nothing. So how long will it take these companies to find out what is now required, pull their existing application, make every mayor in Quebec happy, then resubmit for another round of hearings. Five years? Ten? Never? I vote for never. Why? Because the player that matters is the one never mentioned. It is the companies that agree to put their oil into a pipeline. They are soon going to say f**k it, it just is not worth the trouble in Canada. And that will be that for a big chunk of export earnings and a big chunk of jobs. Mission accomplished for Justin, whether he wants it or not. I cannot see it, I think this has been the plan all along. All his speechifying the last three months fits this theme. I reckon Coderre forced his hand a bit early.

Alberta government quoted as quoted. Trudeau and Carr contradict what she just said they said in regard to projects under review. Seems pretty simple. Well they apparently did commit to an approval process to EE and the KM, which is the existing process. Unless the AB govt statement is a lie. No company can operate when the rules of the game change constantly, these are big numbers at risk just trying to get through an unknown regulatory environment is really expensive. But everybody is following a script, though I suspect Coderre acted prematurely. Trudeau would have rebuked him for that, and explained that it is all a charade By doing so he forced Justin into the open, when Trudeau could have delayed several months longer on slipping it in that yes, MK and EE pipleine applicants would both have to do much, much more. And he won't commit to a year, Trudeau will have his communciations staff issuing writs of urgency for the next few years while the projects flounder and ultimately fail for lack of product. You see, pipeline companies invest hundreds of millions in planning and engineering once they have supply commitments from oil producers. Sooner rather than later they will all see the writing on the wall, abandon the projects, and take their money elsewhere. I would guess that the press releases from the PMO are already written on that topic. Time for you now Waldo, to shift the goalposts, obfuscate and scramble. Have at it!

about the process..... This is what the Alberta Energy Minister was quoted as saying today in the Financial Post: http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/national-energy-board-doing-inadequate-job-of-tracking-whether-pipelines-meet-approval-conditions?__lsa=9708-2976 and Prime Minister Trudeau/Natural Resoruces Minster are quoted today: Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr said the government is working on a “transition” process for pipeline projects already under National Energy Board review – such as Energy East and Kinder Morgan’s proposed Trans Mountain pipeline expansion – that will be announced in a “few days.” The new environmental assessment rules will apply to Energy East and other projects currently under NEB review. I wish we has a poll function here to get some takes on which one of these parties are liars. And The Trudeau Long Con is pretty clear now. 1. Create delays of a few years on the regulatory framework. Nothing at all can proceed on current files like Energy East until the NEB is told what it must do on behalf of the federal government. 2. Set impossible regulatory standards for the applicants. No corporation can determine what is in the overall national interest, since the merits and demerits of a major project intersect so many areas including poltical, as we have seen recently. 3. Delay the actual review process as long as possible via the NEB. The review process itself will take years or decades, using the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline review as a guiding light, a way to ensure nothing ever gets done. 4. Watch the politicians emerge soon, in cautious support of these 'important national infrastructure programs'. I fully expect Coulliard, Sellinger and Clark to come out soon in bland generalized statements of support for Energy East. They all know that with an amended NEB process that applies to existing projects there is no possibility of approval for many years, if at all. They can safely play both sides of the fence, which is a happy place for all polticians. They can join Trudeau, Wynne and likely Notley who are already there. The target of this new process, which has been clearly lied about by guess who, is the energy sector in general. What is the actual impact of this country refusing to build, or rather allow the private sector to build, essential export capacity? In the short term, it means that our oil production is largely shut in, we have nowhere to export it except the USA and via the USA. The USA no longer really wants or needs our oil, as their domestic production soars and they can now legally export oil and are doing just that to Europe and Asia(markets we once considered as market possibilities for our own oil). In the long term, it means that global energy companies will continue to abandon Canada as a place to invest. It is not about price, since price can and will rebound in the cycle. It is simply that they now know that Canada is a place that is not friendly for investment. Private money, not public, builds refineries, drills wells and builds pipelines. But they need our permission, and they now know it won't happen. And all that is required for it not to happen, is to delay, because capital is not static. And there is oil, and opportunity .elsewhere. I reckon Trudeau thinks he has 'social license' to shut down, thoroughly and comprehensively, a major segment of our economy and a big source of export earnings and taxc revenue to his government. I await his expose of what will replace that crucial element in our joint future. But I won't be holding my breath Maybe tomorrow we;ll examine Trudaus claim that we are open for business, in light of his recent 'statements.'....

The decision has been made by Trudeau. The strategy is to drag out the process indefinitely, in the certainty that it will kill both any pipelines and any investment in the energy sector. There is no point in drilling or mining if your only market remains the USA at a deep discount to world price. ' The intention is to delete the energy sector in Canada and do something more 'resourceful' and as yet undefined. And it really does not matter at all what the NEB has done to date, Trudeau has announced they will be overhauled and a new process implemented. No timetable. All their work to date so far on these files will be set aside soon. They might start up again when the Liberals get around to defining what they want from the NEB. But the oil compnies waiting to put oil into a pipeline that will never get built won't wait. They will just leave and put their money elsewhere. The oil is not going anywhere, but the money can and will. Mission accomplished.

They were also notably more expensive than Walmart and others.

The strategy has now been forced out of Trudeau, when he went to see Coderre, so Denis could straighten him out on some harsh political and electoral realities in Quebec/Canada. Trudqau will undertake a long ';review' of the NEB, which will take a couple of years. Then the 'review' of pipl;eine proposals will take a few years, while every hamlet, First Nations, province and individual in Canada says their piece. Then a few more eyars to provide an approval with a few hundred conditions. Of course, by then the interest and capital will be long, long gone to other countries. Mission accomplished. It is the Sunny Ways version of the NEP. Some things just never change.

I'd rank Avatar and Titanic above 'Precious'. Oh sorry. I misread 'the 'depressing ' category.as "Best gigantic turd that made boatloads of money, which is really depressing" category. The Oscars are give out of fear and guilt by people with a lot or reasons to reward themselves and their friends, while ignoring the unknown and qworthy. Soemtimes, rarely, those worlds collide. That is why shriekingly boring movies like 'Carol' , for example, will get a big financial boost from their buddies just for the nomination. You vote for me and I'll vote for you. Like that.

Want to know how it actually works in many northern communities? Few firearms are registered, few First Nations people bother with are license. , The RCMP are aware and do nothing about it, because they just do not want the taint of racism or to get into constitutional challenges. Everybody everywhere is well lawyered up. A few are licensed, they buy ammunition for many of their friends, neighbours and kin.

The word means 'general agreement'. That will be utterly impossible with any of these pipelines or any pipelines. One camp is either completely opposed to all pipelines, or wants terms that make them wholly untenable. Others think that in the real world, it is possible to build them with a reasonable lebveel of safety, and that their benefits outweigh mitigated risks. Trudeau has two choices, which appear to be three choices. In the end, you can only dick around so long before it becomes even more embarrassing that it already is for him. It is not going to just go away, unless....... They are what I described: approve, reject or delay. He will almost certainly choose delay, which is the same as rejection ultimately. He would love to turn this onto another Mackenzie Valley pipeline fiasco, with a 15 year review. Of course, the money will again be long long gone by then. Capital never rests. It is hard to imagine our country being a better, more prosperous or fairer place by being systematically impoverished for the sake of some amateur social engineering.

No, it only takes thew response, not the quoted bit. It is a serious shortcoming, not the case on other forums. But if you object to the form or content, snitch to your hearts content. It is your habit, after all.

For brevity, and because this site does not link the entire post. If I don't quote you Waldo, it is because your post is not worth repeating or commenting upon. If my style is offensive , there is a report mechanism.