Army Guy

IED's are just another form of warfare no different than land mines, random rocket attacks, or suicide bombers. What ever the enemy can use to inflict cas they will use, NATO has already proven that they can not be beaten on the conventional battle field, the taliban does not have the numbers to fight us one on one. These random attacks are mainly for the media, not to win on the battle field, but to change the hearts and minds at home...want to stop thier effectivness stop the media from covering them. stop giving them the attention the taliban crave and need. The Afgan operation won't be lost on the battle field but on the home front. Without the support of home we can accomplish nothing in Afgan.

Madmax: Thanks madmax for atleast meeting me halfway.

Really it's all bullshit, i'm stunned...., I'm curious on who is directing and approving all of our military forces operations if not our government. Thats right our government, Not NATO or our military but our presently elected government. Who is responsiable for writting our rules of engagement, Our nations soldiers are not out there chasing thier own agendas, thier following orders from our government...don't like that take that up with them not bone, slam, and degrade one of our nations soldiers, just so you can make a piont, one that is false... So how do you and some other Canadians here on this forum come up with "THATS NOT WHY OUR GOVERNMENT SENT YOU THERE FOR"....Have you not been listening to the media, our CDS comments in the media, we are taking the fight to the taliban, we are engaged in combat operations to hunt down those Taliban scumbags...we've been doing this since we first stepped off the plane day 1 of this operation...and we are still doing it today... I don't care how each party has spun it to the media, which in turn has twisted it and feed it to the Canadian public. we have been involved in combat since day one, and will be until the day we leave, you don't have to like it, but it is historical fact...and everyone of those sitting in parliment are privey to that info, past and present...in fact that same history has been recorded for public viewing... why we are there.

Actually a force much smaller of course is being constructed today, it will have a JTF componet, a CSOR or light inf (us ranger) type componet...DND is shopping for Big honking ships, and is considering a small amphip marine type componet.

I'm just curious is there anyone other those NDP supporters taking anything Jack Layton has to say serious? Are we saying that the left is now a united front with one common goal, and what would that goal be? other than "get the troops home". AndrewL: Wow, andrew, are you sugesting that you have the moral high ground on this issue, that you more qualified to comment on this issue, that you have some inside information that the rest of us are not privy to...than say a guy with a military history degree, that wakes up every morning in Afganistan. please do tell... Because your comments are leading us down a different path, one that see's mom coming home and catching you on the computer again, and sending you to your room..comments like Your debating skills have been honed to a razors edge, they contain a wealth of info that supports your arguement. But maybe thats just me. Psst hurry up mom's coming home.... Then there was this little gem, which actually made coffee shoot out of my nose...as i nearly fell out of my chair. Now your claiming to have some respect for an institution which is responsable for maintaining all your rights and freedoms you have today. give me a break, in fact give us all a break...

Mad_Michael: Ok your right, i did'nt want to go back that far but since we are here, lets say it all started with unification, in the 60's and all that stood for. If i remember correctly it was under the liberals lester pearson, and Mr hellyer. unification As for the 50's that would be a hard argument to win, but Diefenbaker has been accussed of killing our nations military by some of our countries historians. but the below piece of history is hard to argue again'st. CDN Army So, if you include Joe Clark's government and Brian Mulroney's two terms (let alone Deifenbaker's) then your attack on the left is spurious and reeks of selective partisanship. Believe it or not it's not on the top of mine either, but it does make the top 5. And if something does not happen in the near future it will become a major issue for Canadians, one that will change our nation forever. Actually it all stemmed from the someone on the left side arguing about "support your troops stickers" and the post grew from there. But i'm not the only military person on this forum that can trace our nations defense capabilities or the lack of, back to the liberal party, with PC's help thrown in there as well. It's not bullshit but the sad trurth.

Mad_Michael: Really, DND has started a major decline not only in status, personal, and equipment for the last 20 years. correct me if i'm wrong but the left has been in control of this nation for the majority of that time has it not. So why not bring bring it up as an issue. Thats a good place to start, but then again i would put the Canadian people on that list as well. right and left. being a citizen does'nt stop with with your one vote, there is plenty of opitions to make your opinion heard.

CLRV: Yes you did, Although not clearly, it's muddie, and dripping with sarcasim, you mention something about our military not up to the task, (i think we've already proven that we are in fact still doing it) and all with a minority of support here in Canada. You also mention about it being historically not accomplished yet...historically no one stepped foot on the moon before the 60's , but somehow we manged... other than that , thats all i got out of that post, perhaps you can explain further, some of your real reasons for not supporting this Canadian mission. The same could be said from the left the same old tied excuses, they don't want to here the truth, any more than you do, WHY is that ? because the majority of Canadians just don't give a shit, atleast about what happens in Afgan, They are more concerned about our reputation, and the embrassment we the military might cause them if we do something bad, like rough up a few bad guys, or send them off to a prison that might be torturing one of those poor bastards....but what they always forget is if it had'nt been for those big goofy soldiers Canada would'nt have a reputation to defend... We are not discussing Iraq here, but Afgan, and since spring the largest group of taliban that Canadians have engaged is 40, not bad for the entire region being turned into one big terrorist training camp. but then again maybe you know something i don't ... Your right no referendum, no way to vote, as for the demostrations give me a break, a few thousand across the country is hardly speaking with one voice...and yet they sure heard the nation speak when Canadian soldiers where accused of roughing up serveral Taliban POW's all that took was one professor and a newspaper outlet...funney how he got all that attention...lets not even mention how Canadians near threw themself off cliffs when they found out we may of given some of those poor bastards to the Afgan government..and yet they can't find it within themselfs to voice that opinion about this mission, other than in polls...So if the people can't get themselfs off the couch to speak with one voice then they should be prepare for the long haul in Afgan... I'd just like to know when the left actually started to give a shit what happens to thier soldiers, the military has lobby for dozens of years for better equipment and vehs, using the safety issues and saving lives...to no avail, so why now does our lives mean so much to the left now.... Or is it we may now be on the track to recover for our depleted military that the left is stooping to these levels, to pretend to shed a tear, for the TV ... get on the band wagon we support our troops just not what you do, or how you do it. why is it so important to get us back in Canada ?

I don't think anyone is contending the fact that the holocaust played no role in any of the allieds decisions to enter the war with the NAZI's, i think Nazi expansion into europe was reason enough for "JUST Cause" The source beow indicates that it was not until 1942 that the US had learned about germany's plans for the jews...at this time Stalin was presures allieds to open a second front, and by the beginning of 1942 3.500.000 Red Army soldiers were in captivity and 4.000.000 had died in battle. At one time the Germans occupied some 900.000 square miles-1.440.000 square km of Soviet territory. at this time it does not look good for mother russia, infact it takes her the entire year of 42 just to start recovering some of her own territory from the germans "hardly" could be called kicking ass. USA. Lossing some 7.5 million troops can hardly be called kicking ass. Depending on who's side your on i'd say yes, In the allieds eyes fighting the NAZI's was a just war as they filled all the requirements listed in those ref's i provided. History will always be written according to the victor. The reasons for could cover anything... I've been in countless conflicts, and nothing is righteous about war, it's full of hate, misery, death, and destruction. At the bottom level or personal level nothing good comes of it. On the national level there may be pride in destroying an unjust enemy with an unjust cause , or regaining things like freedoms etc.

I think you jumped on this way to soon. according to the references it just may fit. Really, are you telling me i can throw out all my history books then, perhaps you can provide a few references to back up that claim. Again perhaps you can provide a ref of when the allies knew of the concentration camps, and the final solution, and maybe you can put a time frame into when mother russia stopped getting her ass kicked and started to kick ass, and started marching thru Europe. Thats your opinion of the article, certainly selling it to the public would be part of it, but it does not sum it up completely. i see it rather as a guide line to a nations leader or government to which they should goven themselfs when discussing the use of force...and when using force to solve a grave problem, and after the war... perhaps you can give references why WWII would not fit into any of those guidelines set out in the refs i provided. FascistLibertarian if i interputated is comments correctly had said if someone had committed one crime or had done something bad during the conflict that it would be a unjust war...However according to those that have studied it thats not true.

There you go, using that education, to once again triumph over brawn. How can i compete against that, your way to smart for me....I'm really going to miss our conversations

That would depend on your defination of a Just War, take alook at the below web sites and then let us know what constitutes a just war. I think there defination is a little broader than yours. Because a few of your group acts in a bad manner does not make a just war unjust, if that is your defination then you'd be right, No war , no peacekeeping operation, has been just. Read those links and then tell me WWII were not just. wik very deep

Before Quebecers break out the fire works and start carving up the country Perhaps the next question should be, will the rest of Canadians allow Quebec to have thier nation within a nation, and what sacrafices would they be willing to make to allow that to happen...

I've got a question, lets say your not a religious man, and your daughter, gave you a golden cross or some medal of a saint, and asked you to wear it because she believes in it....would you.... She sent you that ribbon, not because she thinks there is some hidden message in it, But it shows that you support the troops , that you support her... nothing more... She's your daughter and she is looking for your approval, thats all, hey we all hung our kids art on the frig, we do it because we love them, not because there actual works of art...and be damned what anyone else thinks...it's your car and that ribbon represents anything you want it to be, in this case it's showing your daughter you approve of her carear choice and that you stand behind her as her father....

Keepitsimple: thanks, i don't claim to have all the answers, or is my insight the end all to be all, just want to give some perspective from a soldiers piont of view, something that i think is missing in our media feed country.

August1991: In many ways you are, not because it is the way the soldiers want to fight, but rather we are fighting this War, the how, and when, and our code of conduct in which the west will tolerate. Insurgent warfare gives most of the advantages to the bad guys, in many ways, NO rules, No conventions, and thier victory conditions are much more easily defined, and achieved. They have no long supply lines to protect, they don't have to postion valueable manpower to protect cities, towns villages, they are extremily mobile in small numbers. and they have a secure hiding place to regroup and rearm, etc. But even with all these advantages it is possiable to defeat them. i know most people are moaning now, they have heard this over and over, by thousands of people from our government , our military, from NATO etc...and although it is true, our progress is extremily slow, very tough to measure on a yard stick...they only way to truily measure it is to see what our soldiers see, they have come back year after year each time it is different and it is improving. more schools,more busineses, hey even a intra net cafe just outside the wire, "under taliban rule this would have never happened," construction is every where new homes, new buildings, new roads, new shops, the out door market is huge...all signs of progress, all signs of peace...all of this is happening because we are here, and thru our hard work and our tax dollars. That would be a problem if the little guy was not using old tech, he'd have the advantage if he stuck to a donkey for movement, and tin cans for communication, and small arms to fight with. but they are not ...again it's hard to explain with out giving away op sec, but we've all seen this tech on TV, it's improve version is at war as we speak. Which is why it is so critical to have the support on the home front, and why we need a victory here. it's impact will not only effect the people Afganistan but how we fight all future insurgent wars, and How it will reflect on foreign policy in the region, It will effect the future of NATO, and all of it's treaties, how we look at europe, and all of our allies. the list is endless.... But soldiers can't do this alone, The taliban know thier key to sucess is waging a war on the home front, thru our TV's, our news papers and other media outlets. They know there victory conditions are smaller than ours and are very close to becoming reality. Spec ops operations are as crude as we get, but they go unheard of because of the secrecy, but they are happening all the time. as for the cunning part, thats where all this tech equipment comes in, and it is making a big difference. As for offical statements, they are just that, meaniless words that does not bring back anyone or change the fact we have lost another brave Canadian...but lets not forget that every soldier that sacrafices his life is doing so because they want to be there, that we believe we are making a change, even though it is painfully slow. To understand why the soviets failed in Afgan is to understand thier tactics, and practices they used. History has shown us that the killing of millions of civilians does not produce good results. NATO tactics are not even close, Yes the russians used helo's and plenty of them, but the use of helo's are only a small part in elimination of the IED problem and don't forget that when we change tactics so will they, as the russians found out when america started to provide them with portable SAM missles. I'm sure there is no love lost between the soviets and Afganis, for good reason, and for as brutal as afganis can be or have been, they learned that the hard way, from the soviets themselfs...for every soviet soldier that died in afgan thousand of afganis were slaugtered, through conventional and chemical warfare. Soviets are not held back by conventions and rules as we are. but that does not mean that the afganis people are not worth giving an oportunity for peace to. Many people have stated it is impossable to achieve victory, and yet the taliban manged to gain control of most of the country, proving that it is possiable, conditions are right for peace , the people are begging for it, we are not fighting the type of battles, nor are we using the same tactics, as past conquors have tried and failed, today we are fighting with the people to give them something they want peace... I think we are on the right path, it's not the fast track but we will get there.

CLRV: Thank you, I've won a few golden soap boxes awards. welcome to the boards. It is a convinence is it, but i'm not the only one on this board, there is lots of soldiers with past and present experiance. Even soldiers have a interest in politics and polictical discussions. As for the vision i'm glad you feel the same way. I get the piont your driving at, but you and i both know that to get the majority of Canadians to stand up and speak with one voice on this topic is impossable, and in todays world maybe even anti Canadian. my piont was most soldiers have come to this conclusion long ago, change is slow, very slow. and right now if a roll of toilet paper is the best we can do then we'll smile, say thanks and be greatful to be wiping our arse with paper rather than cutting up my t-shirt. I did'nt say you did, i wanted the other readers to know that although there is much more that we all could be doing that i did not want to sound ungreatful for what i did recieve. it's not an attack ,nor was it meant to be. Give me a break, the liberals used to live by the polls, did'nt do anything without one....and when this all started the vast majority of Canadians did support this mission to the hilt...But you still have not mentioned WHY ? History has shown us that france can be invaded and conquored at will, but i don't see Canada building any landing craft, what a great way to solve this Quebec separation problem...give them the mother country. was that my outside vioce, sorry.... Like i said before the liberals did nothing with out polls, and lets just say for augument sake they left you out, I still can not believe they would, being a almost golden soap box winner....you still have a vote, you still have the freedom of speach, freedom to contact your MP, freedom to demostrate, plenty of ways to get your voice , your opinion heard. And i was so sure that was a winner, damn ... But you got it all wrong, It was the majority of Canadians that were screaming like chicken hawks, hell the military even said that we could not handle a mission of this size at this time....we got our orders pack-up, were going anyways...As for our big months getting us into trouble hard to say, by the time we were in Afgan doing the job that Canadians gave us.... "poof" most of our support was gone...no sensibly advice, nothing but dust in the wind.... Yes now the majority of Canadians don't like the mission, they'll say so in a poll atleast but will they march as a majority to force our government into action, hell no, thats just un Canadian...we'll let the soldiers hang out to dry, stupid bastards for going over anyways. WTF do we know about war , why would they listen to us anyways.... Thats quit the example, they have removed a couple of journists on a few combined operations, All a soldier has to do to get his name in the paper, is to make an off color remark at the mess hall, or at timmies, and you'll be front page news. on top of all the reporters there is tones of blogs created by soldiers for soldiers, shit go to you tube and you'll get all the combat footage you can handle... check out ARMY.CA thier all soldiers on thier all freely expressing thier opinions on ever subject...unless your catchme they don't take kindly to NDP peaceniks. My piont is soldiers are a very vocal lot, and will answer any of your questions without fear. Why would'nt it , any reasonable person would want the facts from all sides of the issue before they made a decission would they not. Soldiers are not mindless robots, Yes we follow orders, but everyone of them are volunteers, you want out tell the padre and your on a plane...and yet most are with more than one tour under thier belts, you can fool them once, but's it is highly unlikely you'll fool them twice...they go because we think we are making a difference and re building something better than what it was...Thats what Canadians at home are just not getting... You talk a good game when it comes to using your freedoms to challage lies and deciet , but where is the majority of Canadians, at home safe and sound in thier living rooms, no massive marches on parliment hill, no flooding thier MP's mail basket with pations...that is the problem that is frustrating for a soldier, it was no problem getting us over here, but the majority does not want to do anything to get us back...and now we are left holding the bag fighting and dying for a cause that the majority sent us over here to do in the first place... I would'nt say we were the laughing stock, if any thing our osmosis process was to much for the job, but then again could have passed out tablets like the head of the red cross had stated, sure the water was black, and had shit floating in it but those tablets made it drinkable...ya if you were a camel in the middle of the desert...it's funny the locals did'nt complain, about the water, nor the medical help, or the construction equipment that came in... As far as the lack of equipment, your right, but like i said if you can't get the majority to stand up and speak as one vioce to save our troops in Afgan, how are you going to get them to agree to spend the bils we need for equipment.

I think there is a large misconception of any type of operations in afgan, be it combat ops, building a road, delivering aid, digging a well...every time you leave the wire for what ever reason your dressed and armed as if you are going to war...it is not a matter of "if" your going to get attack but "when" The bad guys don't give a rats ass if your planting flowers or delivering teddy bears "your a target". I've read the NDP reports and i'm a little confused...first they start off with a complete withdrawal of all troops in the south by feb 2007, which is a big change from just recently when they said they wanted to pull out all troops from afgan and redeploy them into Darfur...which is inconsistent with what they are saying now... Now they believe it would be alright to stay in Afgan if we had one of those nice safe jobs in the north....and as long as we stay with thier plan for reconstruction, etc,etc, anything but combat... And to top it all off Dion has taken up the NDP's call a total pull out in 2009, because we have other problems in the world to solve.

Alot of finger pionting, about who's war it is...about equipment...Why is it we as canadians need to blame someone for our shortfalls... I think it's time we stand up and take responsabilty for our decissions that past and present governments have made on our behalf, regardless of which polictical party made them. We've made this a major sport blaming the US for all our problems, i'm actually surprised we have not created a Canadian reality show that slames America at every chance we have... We are in this War not because the liberals decided it was the right thing to do but because it was living up to our NATO commitments period ....it does not have to be popular, but if we want to live under it's umbrella of protection then we must take part in it's operations....or take responsabilty for our own defence.. As for our equipment, we have the military that Canadians want, no more no less, Canadians blame the liberals and cons for our current status , but since we as canadians are so good at finger pionting i chose to piont at you the Canadian tax payer. The only people that have the power to change DND's current state, is the people of Canada. But as much as we all whine about our state of our military, it is not going to be a major piont come election time, shit it won't even make the top 5 pionts...Canadians have to many other issues that they deem to have more priorty, me being one of them. Todays military would take any where from 50 to 100 bil just to outfit us with modern capabilities and support our current mandate of 75,000 troops. And that would be a very conservative est...considering our current status, and soon in the near future Canadians will have to make some hard chioces in regards to our military to pay the big bucks to fix it or to dismantle it completely. but you all knew that right...

AndrewL: What are you sugesting here andrew that soldiers don't pay the same taxes as you, or that our commitment to this Canadian mission insults you, or that soldiers should not have opinions and should not be heard from. or would it be to much to ask that before Canadians ask me to risk my life that they show the same level of commitment.

CLRV: Seems you got it all figured out, that was some speach, might even get you a golden soap box award. This is what Canadians do, they forget the main issue and debate the shit out of topics like this one, the actual meaning of a yellow ribbon....What does all those yellow ribbons mean to me, it's a show of support for all our military men and women and what they do, it's a pat on the back, Canadians way of saying thanks for all you've done...thats it...no hidden message, no magical hidden theme just "hey thanks"... when we got off the Plane in trenton and to constantly see those stickers felt good, it also felt good to see thousands lining the roads waving, with huge banners saying welcome home, ..made me fell proud of what i accomplished in thier name... To those that have them i say thanks, to those that do not have them for what ever reason i respect that as well. As for the letters and boxes of goodies, etc, they are well appricatied as well, the letters took me out of the war for a brief moment, the goodies and toilet paper were well recieved by troops and locals alike, i for one have used many roles of donated toilet paper on many occasions and was damn glad for it.. Can Canadians do more sure they can, but don't get the impression that the soldiers are not greatful for what they recieve now...because it does make a difference a big difference. As for bringing the troops home, WHY...because you've lost your nerve, because we've spent to much money, because you think it's unwinnable, because history has shown us it can't be done...i'd like to see that crystal ball, Yes , would could debate this for years, and years, but one thing is for sure this is a canadian mission, a task that the majority of Canadians agreed to, a combat mission from the beginning and a combat mission today, regardless of who is in power...Canada has a nation stood up and said "YES" we will contribute our soldiers and our resources...Now soldiers in afgan turn around to find out only a minority of Canadians stand behind us, behind a commitment that has taken 60 of our lives todate...and Canadians still don't get it "we are still commited to this cause". Like a smaller brother standing behind his big brother during a fight, yelling and jeering go get him big bro...until someone bigger joins the foray, then the little brother turns and runs leaving big bro to fend for himself.... The troops have access to media outlets, there are tonnes of Canadian web sites dedicated to our military, soldiers speak freely and will answer any question you ask them. And yet very few will give you the answers you are seeking. Not because they are afraid, because they believe in what they are doing. Most Canadians don't get what it feels like to help someone or group of people in attaining something as simple as fresh water supply. to offer them something they have never had before... Don't just take my word for it, write to the troops ask them the mail is not censored, if you want i'll give you the e-mail address.

Most of those fighting for the taliban are from those refugee camps in pakistan, where conditions are extremily poor, and perfect for recruiting and the taliban presence is there daily to brainwash them into thier believes and ways of life. The others recruited inside Afganistan itself are done by force, threats, or promising some big pay day. these recruits are getting hard to come by, because NATO controls most of the country side, and is now paying more to the afganis army. money is a big convincer when you don't have any,and need to provide for your family. perhaps a Canadian tire is a lofty goal, but a single clean water source, access to a medical clinic, to be able to provide for thier families, so they can atleast eat once a day, that would be a start. It would be a major contributing factor would it not, think about it for a minute, if the majority of people supported this mission, would funding not be easier made availiable, would we not have a larger presence there, not just militarily, but diplomactically, more police, more PRT staff etc. anything to do with the mission would be alot easier to pass thru parliment, we would also showing the taliban we are united and dedicated to this mission, taking away from the taliban a powerful tool they use in recruiting, gathering finicial aid, foreiegn aid, the list goes on. It would also take away from the western nations the excuse "nobody else supports this mission" , making that decision to pull out that much easier. IED's are just one of many forms in which a soldier can die in combat, it is part of the way the taliban fight, Dying in any form does nothing to further any cause, regardless if it's flying a bomber or building a road, in Afgan. It is part of war, which has one objective, to kill as many of the enemy as possiable, until one side says uncle, or is defeated. You've stated we need to be there, we need to have a presence on the ground, we need to convince the other side to say uncle or defeat them. in doing that some of us will be killed. soldiers know the risks, and acept this as part of our jobs. My last tour i spent 190 days in country, and 140 of those were outside the wire, plus 30 of those i was on Leave in Canada, so we are not always hunkered down on some big base, but actually out doing army stuff. Do we accomplish anything , just being out there , showing the taliban we can operate freely at any time, making it harder for them to operate freely, bringing the fight to them, harassing thier supply routes, humanitarian missions, mobile medical clinics, and construction of new hyways, irrigation ditches, schools, firehalls, hospitals, police stations. I've been on lots of missions, across the globe, this one is one of the best organized, but like any large organization it needs to be adjusted alittle every roto. I've seen more advance tech over on this tour, than i have in my entire carear, stuff i thought was created for the movies, is actually being used here be it to fight with , gather intell with, or do security with... these things the media are not told about, for security reasons.... It's very hard to convince anyone that these things are happening , when you can't explain them in detail because of the security issues.

They support them and believe in them to a piont. That piont comes to a quick end when it comes to funding, purchases equipment to keep them safe, or interfers with any of our social programs. Then they need to drive this piont home to the harper government, in a unified voice. But the majority don't all speak as one, there is many reasons why they want us out of afgan, most don't have anything to do with your stated reasons. If that is what is going to take to get some form of action out of Canadians then it might be worth it, a majority of Canadians supported this mission at the beginning , which played a major role in our deployment, now our soldiers are left holding the bag until the majority speaks again....

Do you support your daughter's decision to join the military, if yes then show her, and the hell what everyone else thinks, if anyone asks tell them exactly how you think.

The average afganis wants peace, they want jobs, they want thier children to have a chance at life. however there is serveral groups who want nothing more than total control,total power over the population, and are willing to do what ever it takes to accomplish that "these are the people you speak off" and these are the people we are there to destroy. I think you'd be surprised on how many foreign fighters actually there are in Afgan. Perhaps the present government is not the best choice, but it must be respected as it was freely elected, but it won't last forever, and hopefully it will be replaced with a new and improved version. Without getting into to many specifics, there are many different depts, and countries involved in everything from gathering intel, spec ops, to regular military operations, all going on without fanfare, making life for these groups very hard and very dangerous, these operations are not reported to the media, but account for alot of the damage to taliban operations in Afgan. These groups are being hunted 24 hours a day with out a break. DND and most of NATO are spending big dollars on solving the IED problem, and when a small advance is made, they counter it. but it will never be totally solved, and it is one of the perils of combat, one of many that our soldiers face daily. Every soldier over there is giving 150% of thier effort, working extremily long hours earning every dollar thier paid twice over...to make this work. Most have children of thier own, and don't want this war to reach our shores, or have our children involved either...And i've said this before this war is not going to be won by soldiers alone, it needs to be supported by the people on the home front... Thats the front that the taliban are winning on, it drives everything they do, including recruitment, thier money supply, thier wpns supply, everything they need to fight. It boosts thier moral when they see our headlines, they know it is only a matter of time before more western nations drop out of this mission and they take control... With a majority of support on the home front, not only does it show them "the taliban" we are commited, united, but funding for Aid, construction, military equipment is easier to come by, getting the people of afgan the funding is the key to winning thier hearts and minds getting that aid into the right hands. But that level of support is not there, and it is making our soldiers jobs that much harder to accomplish, hence why my comment, of this mission not being a Canadian one but one bourne by our troops alone and by those few in the minioty. You can't because the two are tied together, Canadians forget they were the ones that sent us over there, and they are the ones that have left our sides, and walked away. I don't think there is one soldier here that has been in combat, that would say "I'm here for the glory" there is no glory in war, just blood and tears, and lots of destruction. No there is no glory in waking most of your family up in the middle of the night, while i relive in color the death of so many of my comrads, No glory in talking to your best friends wife, trying to find the words to say your sorry that you could not keep your promise and bring him back alive. No glory in trying to stuff the insides of one of your comrads back into his belly, trying to asure him he'll be all right, no glory in hearing his last words and making promises that i can't keep. And yet with all that we still mange to return time after time tour after tour, because we believe in what we are doing so much so that we are willing to die for it. When you look into the eyes of a young afgan girl who has had her hands removed and her father killed so that she could go to school, you make a promise to yourself, if i could prevent that from happening just once it would all be worth it. Each soldier has his own reasons for going to Afgan repeatily, but i don't think there is anyone looking for glory. It's something that the media can not put to words, it's something you have to see , feel, smell, and live, then maybe we'll get "why" we go.