Army Guy

I don't think you'll find many Canadians that will disagree with your above statement. What i do take issue with is the majority of Canadians flip flopping thier opinions of the Afgan mission due to poor government and media coverage of this mission. most Canadians are making judgements with little knowledge of what is happening over there. If it was only that easy, bomb the crap out of them until they say uncle then leave, does not solve any issues, unless you plan to make this a hobby. Removing a group or government of a nation comes with other responsabilites which includel rebuilding it until it becomes stable. NATO's goals are not to bring Afganistan into the modern world, but to rebuild it until it is has a stable government able to sustain itself, and to give it the resources until it can do so. Why are we in Afgan then, if not to liberate the Afgan people to give them a chance at peace,to give them a piece of what Canadians take for granted every day. Your right it is not 1939, it 2007, and after 20 years or more of this country slashing it's defence dept. It has left our nation with 2 choices disband the military, or spend the bils (and we are not talking what has just been spent, but 40 to 50 bil in additional funds) just to keep our current capabilities. And when all that is said and done Canada will still not be able to sit at the grown up table, but left in the wings as we always have. I may sound bitter, but thats life, Canadians have decided this is how they want thier military to look. Harper is just trying to replace those things that need fixing yesterday...so he will not be faced with disbanding a dept because it has become to expensive to maintain. Yet, what we are doing is making our young bastards die, supposedly, for our country. And we honour this.

Rebuilding is what needs to happen yes, This is not the first time Canada has done this. It may not have been the most intelligent commitment to under take but we are there now, have already spent funds on building infra struture needed to support us to carry out this mission why not stay and finish the job. One of our biggest faults is we continue to provide the government with sucesses, it comes at a cost to our equipment and personal, the government keeps making these commitments "quoting you done it last time". and to the government it is worth the cost. We are stretched , and have been for more than 15 years now, but government and the people of Canada are well aware of that, an although support for the military has grown in leaps and bounds, people are still not willing to give up what it is going to take to rebuild the forces.

jdobbin: Like i've already said, DND has already been studying equipment from around the world, remember it has had over 15 years or more to study and test it, on top of all that this equipment has been tested in combat operations, and surpasses all our standards and requirements. Take a look at the C-17 globemaster purchase, it's only compition for that size of aircraft is russian built, in this case you get what you pay for and will not last as long, historically Canada hangs on to it's equipment well past it's useful life span. Another problem is most of the nations marked unfriendly or hostile nations also use this same model, a major problem on the battlefield. The only viable opition is to sole source it because it is only available thru one source. The leo IIA6, this Tank is one of the best on the market, The contract we have signed is for used LeoIIA4 which will be upgraded to A6 standard, making this one of our better buy's, cheaper than any other country could provide. hence why we sole sourced it. As for the liberal remarks "we don't need tanks" well i'll bet he's never been on a modern battlefield. The compitive process is not the end all by all either. remember our purchase of Search and rescue helo's, we purchased a brand new model, that was not combat tested, nor was all the bugs worked out, how many times in the news have we seen them parked on the ground, for cracks, etc etc...The LSVW truck made by western star another example of a compitive bid gone really bad, we could not have possiably purchased a worse veh, it had to be taken to a desert enviroment to pass our standards....so there are examples of good and bad purchases made using both processes. And if we had the time to do the compitive process i'm sure they would.. The compitive process has problems with it as well, DND does not ask for a specific type of veh, such as the C-130J but rather puts in a spec sheet, IE plane cargo, this big must ,go this fast,carry this wieght, able to land on rough airfield, corgo area must be this big etc etc...this sheet is handed to a bunch civilains who goes out into the market and assembles a bunch of examples... The military tests each one, while we test them the politicians have a crack at them, can it be made in Canada, can it be made in my district, what spin offs is there for my party...they eleminate alot of the example this way, not because they are better, or safer for our soldiers, because there is some sort of spin of for them...next is price, the cheapest bidder wins...And we all know you get what you pay for, DND smiles says thanks spends millions on upgrades, and modifications to make it all suit our needs. Our purchasing process needs to be upgraded, with the exception of strategic wpns, or capabilities, the military should be able to spend thier funds on the equipment the need, as they need it, cutting out half the red tape, that has pushed the purchase of new equipment to 12 or more years, try and think how stupid it would be to purchase your next family car with a 12 year lead time, alot of things change in 12 years. The contracts that have been sole source have been signed by Boeing aircract ind for the C-17, and the CH-47F helos, the other went to lockheed for the Herc tac transport aircraft. The other sole source contract was for the LeoIIA4 tanks and it was signed with the Dutch government.

So would that explain why Canadians are not really taking this war seriously, because it has not affected them on the home front. Perhaps that is something to keep in mind before we go and commit to another adventure or mission. The government has to involve and effect the public in greater ways in order for these accomplish these quests to spread our good deeds around the world.

Yes very true the vote to extend the Afgan mission beyond 2009 has not happen yet, but if these projects take 12 or more years to get off the ground why would you delay them. to get something cheaper, that has not been tested in combat or does not meet our needs, they know our capabilites and equipment status as well as the cons...i would agree with you whole hardily if there was a benefit to delaying and studing these projects but there is none... Is this one of those questions you wish you could take back...our troops need this equipment to do thier jobs, it is proven equipment, it fits our requirements, and if we don't get it soon we will lose those capibilities the most important one it will save our soldiers lives...so why are we delaying again ? and why did the liberals not see this and atleast try and correct the problem.

Peter: I'm sure if most Canadians knew the true state of our militarys equipment, not just the age, because we do own alot different types of state of the art equipment, just very little of it. And not enough to meet our main focus of defence of the nation, sure we can deploy a battle group (2500 troops) to aAfgan but little else. One of the main problems we have now is we are to far behind in replacing equipment, and it's coming to a head, example the new herc's "the models we are flying today are the oldest in the world, no other country has flown the amount of hours we have on a single airframe." it cost more to maintain them than it will to replace them...with DND funds going else where, we will lose that capability unless we act now, because of the time frame needed to set up contracts, explore every brand out there, then wait years for our government to actually award a contract , then wait in que as they are built.. The normal start to finish time for most major contracts is 12 years or more...most of our equipment will not last that long...not only will we lose that capabilty to move troops and equipment in and out of operations, or within our own nation in regards to tactical airlift ,but we have already lost our ability to refuel our ships at sea, we have lost our destroyers , and command and control ships, we have almost zero sub capabilities, that6 is just the navy, and thats just the surface needs. our airforce is in need of new fighter aircraft, we've lost the capability to refuel them in the air, ...the only service that is half decent is the army, and it's needs list would fill a book... So it may look iffy to most Canadians , but to those serving it's a struggle just to maintain what we have...add to that the military knows what it wants, it spent years studing other equipment, drewling and dreaming of the day our government actually approved some cash to be spent...this new equipment has spent many years on the testing sites of dozens of militaries, it's proven in combat, it fits our needs, why go out and spend years retesting it only to come up with the same results.

Your right it was a silly answer. In ensence you have agreed to all the reasons we are there assisting the Afgan government , except you wanted a time frame, rebuilding a nation has no known mathical equation that could possiably answer that question, except that we know it is a slow process, and since we are a fast food generation we want quick solutions...only this problem thier is none..and that was made known at the very start of this process... so in protest you've answer let the taliban have it back...and lets move on...to the next noble deed like dafur...and when we get tired of that we'll move on not really solving or accomplishing anything, except wasting our soldiers lives, and proving the world we can't keep our word nor our commitments.

Something like being "all most a virgin" you either are or your not. We are asking our youth to fight and die because our nation has made a commitment. Only it seems now that the only ones living up to that commitment are our soldiers and the minority of Canadians....

These are the same people who claim they support the troops and they should get the equipment they need to do thier job's...So how is it that delaying contracts until the end of the year would be supporting our troops, at the same time getting the equipment they need to do the job....If this countries past leadership had replaced old rusted out equipment on a regular bassis our military would not require these huge purchased to be rushed. Yes lets talk about accountabilty shall we...from a liberal...give me a break... contracts.

Just another group using our soldiers as polictical pawns, they knew they would get more mileage and press out of sending these letters to soldiers then to thier MP's. personally i think each of the soldiers should respond in kind, only this time with pictures and letters showing the good our troops are doing in Afgan...

A silly answer would be to answer yes we should allow the taliban to regain control of the country. Anyone with any knowledge of the the talibans escapades during thier rule would know this is not what the Afgan people want, it is not what they need. We as Canadians have agreed to help them, lets concentrate on that , pushing forward not backwards.

normanchateau: That does not make it the right decision does it, if one was to take a poll in who was in favour of not paying taxes at all, what do you think the results would be, I'm pretty sure a majority would vote yes, but would that mean it would be in the best interest of our country. Your right the government has done a poor job in informing average Canadians of the situation in Afgan, not just this present government but the previous one as well. all that said this battle needs to be fought, and won with or with out allied support. We as a nation decided that when we entered this conflict, that it was worthy of our commitment and tax dollars, and we should stick it out until the outcome is known. And when it is discussed in parliament what are they concerned with, side issues , or issues that reflect in the polls...how many times have they discussed solutions to the problem of ending this conflict, to getting aid in quicker, etc etc....so your right the entire government and all sides of parliment are to blame. I disagree, all Canadians will have no one to blame but themselves for thier condition and size of thier military, it is what they wanted, and for the most part still want. Yes They agree our military should be bigger, but they are not willing to pay the price , be it cutting other programs or spending the entire surplus. So yes those effected in such an event would pay the price, and be the ones that suffer. but that is the price they will have to learn to live with or lobby to make the military larger...Do you see this happening.

What i find interesting is why thier is no poll for the soldiers actually doing the work in Afgan, you guys know, the ones actually doing the fighting and dieing. but then again nobody wants to here from them.

Just because the majority of Canadians want out of Afgan does not make it the right, or best decision for that problem.

Peter: Does it matter what role she played, when they bust a grow op, does everyone throw up thier arms and say "hey i'm just the donut guy" and then walk...i actually think they're all lead away in handcuffs, they are all guilty, it is up to the courts to decided to how guilty they are... The US government and NATO are making the accusations. Again, guilty of combat operations as a taliban /al quada member...his condition was the result of a gun shot wound, recieved in combat, now his medical needs are being meet on our dime....make no mistake this kid picked up a wpn and was involved in combat with coalition troops. Whats wrong with this guy, just because you decide to role over and spew info, does not make you any less guilty, does it. How much more evidence do we need, and what message are we sending other immigrants and what message are we sending our soldiers and allies.... I think i agree with Kimmy, lets give a trip to the airport, a pat on the ass, a nice "thanks for showing up" but now it's time for you to go home....

well said....

Sorry, i got a bad habit of making sure everyone understands, saves time later on, i think you know the few posters i'm talking about.

Are you kidding me, i thought we were just over that piont, lets start at the top shall we. the sister, accused of assisting her brother in running a camp for training terrorist, has openily admitted on TV interview that she supports the taliban and it's way of life. now living in Canada, on our dime. little brother, crippled in combat operations with Nato and Pakistan forces, now living here in Canada on our dime. Abdurahman Khadr, living in Canada was on payrole from various intel agencies for info and intel, living in Canada on our dime... The other 2 brothers are in jails or dentention centers coming out of the US pocket book. then thier is MOMA , living in here, and yes on our dime. lets save a few dimes deport them, back to where they are more comfortable, and could freely support the taliban anyway they wish...

Most medic's are armed, normally with a side arm (pistol) however i've seen them with rifles. this wpns are issued for thier protection and thier patients protection only. And should not be involved in any offensive type tactics ie taking enemy postions etc...but following the battle and giving aid...once they have engaged the enemy with these wpns your right they are no longer afforded protection under the genva convention. Todays combat medics are very well trained, and are taught how to handle massive amputations, massive body damage, and adminstrate living saving drugs and techniques that used to be reserved for doctors only. the level of training has increased ten fold over what used to be considered standard, on par or greater than a EMS tech we find in our major cities today. Todays soldiers are recieving TCCC training, very similar to the above and do admin combat first aid when needed or assist the medic, they do not wear the red cross, nor are they protected under it.

peter F: I take it your talking about Abdurahman Khadr He was the one that was offered the deal with the americans in exchange for info and intel, what was his crime no one is saying, he was picked up in Afgan by US troops. But then again what is it that you consider a real crime, spying on NATO soldiers, reporting thier movements, for the taliban use..training taliban combatants, all have the same consquences they lead to the deaths of NATO soldiers, including our own. As for the rest of the Khadr family did you even read they're bio's, currently there are 2 in US jails. the sister has been accussed of assisting her oldest brother in running a training camp for terrorists. the youngest has been crippled from injuries recieved in combat again'st NATO troops. that leaves Moma who's only crime is allowing her children to be involved in a terrorist organization, even allowing the taliban to convince her son to becoming a suicide bomber....unpleasent behavior as you claim could be contributing to NATO soldiers deaths... That american soldier that was killed by the grenade was a medic, whom at the time was giving aid to other wounded slodiers, and just minutes before a wounded taliban insurgent...Medics are protected under the genva convention... my point being: The ones that acted are either dead or in jail. Those that talk and do nothing else are bitchin and moaning and chest thumping harmlessly next door. all is as it should be.

rogue state: Like i said before if i caused you any pain or grief with my spelling, i apologize. But it's not just my spelling that pisses you about about me, is it. because for an international student yours sucks as bad as mine. WOW...last week i was just a poor soldier with no education, this week i'm a fear monger, that creates animosity across the globe. who's goal is to spend taxpayers monies on myself...i can't tell, i'm i getting better or worse ? No wonder i can't get that song out of my head BAD BOYS , BAD BOYS what you going to do, when they come for you. I can see that trip down to the recruiting office went well, those airforce guys too rough on you muffin man...or is it you still have those problems with authority figures, like cops and soldiers dating back from your higher education days, when it was all the fad to protest .... But hey your a busy guy with lots of things to do...waiting for phone calls from the UI office ,telling you now have that CEO postion at IBM....then there's the trip to the mailbox for that UI check...I wonder who for pays that....anyways back on topic. Maybe , just maybe you can back up your claim with perhaps some viable links or sources on just how Canadian soldiers are spreading fear across the globe, and putting tax dollars in our own pockets... Of course i could see your piont if you a taliban member or a terrorist operating out Afgan, maybe thats it...your not from Afganistan are you, Nah....

Peter F: Are you joking me ...We most certainily do arrest terrorist, and we do have laws that do allow for thier arrests... justice That is a good question, but my guess is i don't know why they have not been arrested or deported. read the article below from an interview from one of the Khadr sons, then read the entire family bio you be the judge, would you want them living next to you...and can you honestly tell me they were not part of the same organizations we are currently at war with... kdhar link Khadr background.

rogue state: I did'nt know i was being graded on spelling, i apologize, if it has caused you pain or grief professor... but before you criticize my posts, you should atleast have a look at your own, and the correct spelling is actually "benefit", "correctly", and "international" Army guy, international terrorist relocation specialist

Peter F: Am i the goon, I don't think so, I'm the guy that has spent 2 tours of duty in Afgan fighting those same people. I'm the guy that has watched 23 of my comrads get loaded onto the back of a herc, draped with our nations flag. So the topic does hold some importance to me. So who are those people, There the people who's sole purpose in life is the destruction of our way of life, and the destruction of all infidals ( thats us by the way). they are the people who are only happy unless they surpressing thier own people and infidals thru terror, and brutality, they are the people that will carry out these tasks regardless of cost and consquences. They come in all skin colors, and they come in all religions, so my remarks are not based on racist overtones unless of course you count my opinions on terrorists as racist. I don't think we as a nation have come to the piont where we are accepting of all people regardless of race, religion, or beliefs. i think most Canadians would express thier discomfort at having the klu klux clan, or known terrorist, or any radical group as neibours, or even in thier towns or cities...does that make me a racist, or a goon.... Personally i could not care if anyone was brown, black or purple with warts on thier dicks, that is not the message i'm putting out there, what i have a problem is our nation sending me off to war to fight a group which we have deemed the enemy, to destroy and take thier lifes...and in doing so having to bury many of my comrads in the process, only to come home to find that we are harbouring, supporting, the same people, who still belief in thier cause, thier beliefs and openly support the taliban movement, and thier tactics.... So yes i think we have to take alook at this problem, and canadians need to decide what side of the fence thier on.

Are we really tired of being told what makes up a decent canadian, hell we can't even define what it means to be Canadian, let alone a decent one... That all being said i'm sure we all pocess the mental capacity to determine whom we would want as neibours or living in the same town as the rest of us...And i'm sure i would not want to be living next door to a group of people that is hell bent on destroying my way of life. Perhaps we don't need to be told how to act but rather just shaken out of our slumber... Kick them and all like them back to thier orginal countries to spread thier poison somewhere else...they are taking advantage of our good will and welfare to further thier cause...a cause that i may remind you that is killing our own soldiers in thier country right now ,they are also tarnishing the image of those immigrants who actually want to be here. we need to stop shrugging our shoulders "oh well" and instead be driving them to the airport, with a little pat on the ass, and a thanks for coming out, but you are no longer welcome...