Army Guy

Generals and CDS for over 20 years now have been quitely passing this very message to our government, and to it's citizens....i don't think there is one Canadian out there that DOES NOT know the state our military is in....and yet it is like we have to embrass everyone into doing something or as in most cases Canadian soldiers have to die in order to get a few purchases made.....For Canadians it's all about money....and nothing about defence requirements....if there is no money left over then there is no money for defence....unlike most other nations... Our soldiers where not pissed off at those remarks because most of them where true....Ordinary Canadians where caught once again neglecting thier armed forces, and now are pissed because some American had the nerve to piont it out..

Thats the best you can come up with, because they want to make a few bucks off of us. has nothing to do with entering a defence agreement and pulling our share of those responsabilities...Nobody is worried about Canada becoming a world military super power, what they are concerned is Canada doing it's share in the defence of North America... Give us an example or do you have one. Being able to detect any military attack would be a nice asset for our nation to pocess, would it not. being able to do any other asset. Seeing how it is in our constition and one of the things our government must provide... Just saying it won't happen does not garentee anything and would not be much comfort to those effected by such an attack if it did happen. sticking our heads in the sand and hoping it does not happen is not what i would call reseasonable government. And if they don't then what....last time i heard just under 30 Canadians died in 9/11, guess it was there fault for working in the US, or leaving Canada....where do we draw the line in protection of Canadain citizens....where do we draw the line in regards to our defence agreements. Yes i'm for real, during the last Winnipeg flood US military forces assisted us in many different rescue and relief areas...not to mention the Major ICE storm. do you real think our government could respond to a major earth quake or katrina of our own....even if every last member of the CF deployed we would be still cleaning up katrina and what a tragic day that would be be.... Your true colors are showing, military forces from both sides have been used in combating org crime for years, shit CF-18 have forced down drug planes, naval ships have siezed drug boatas, or ships involved in hauling illigal human traffic....not to mention the wpns trading market....As you know the RCMP and CSIS are also part of our nations security and defence, all of which are under equiped....so there is alot of lending of capabilites...including across our borders... Ever since man has flaen out of the trees we been killing each other, or spending most of our time and energy designing new wpns. and until we invent something that enforces peace to break out and group hugs all around...there will always be a need for a military. Might be different if Hans island was sitting on top of the worlds largest oil deposit, it is still in Canadian waters it still part of north america, it's still on our maps of Canada....are you sugeesting because it is disputed it belongs to no one...what if they claim the entire north...

I'm getting ready to rotate back home can't wait .... I guess you first have to see the terrain here, off road is very rocky and full of what we call POO dust, a fine baby powder like dust approx 12 to 16 inchs thick....driving through it produces conditions of total white out for the second veh....it's very nature would be perfect to hide IED or mines....atleast on the roads we have somewhat of a chance as you can see if it has dug up or disturbed...and for lots of other reasons... Not all of our engagements have been on the highways, IEDS and mines are common on the secondary routes as well as the trails....again you have to see the terrian to understand....Such as the weed fields here, we thought those boys in BC could grow weed....they know squat, plants grow on avg over 14 to 18 ft tall, and planted thick enough to stall out and stop a LAV III armour personal carrier....thats 25,000 pound plus machine, 8X8, it's an amasing sight....and for as far as the eye can see.....

It's very hard to tell that you understand the military with some of the comments that you and Mr green have made, Such as the providing opportunities to our disadvantaged youth, Our nations recruiting efforts being nothing more than propaganda, (perhaps this is based on opinion, as our Nation really does not put alot of effort or care into it's military) but it does not need to trick or fool it's citizens into service....Not letting the military into a school is baised when it is acceptable to have a baker, firefighter, or policemen in to discuss what they do....after all it's not recruits they are looking for at age 12, but rather getting out into the public to better the militarys image. Once again we assume there is something wrong, when perhaps it was all something simple and completely inocent. I have no problem with what ever you do, nor do i make comments that may be taken out of turn, or pour feul on someone elses misinformed opinions. My piont is just that our nations military, is not a dept that is out to get the people of Canada, nor working again'st them some how....we are a dept that serve the nation, the people. not a dept to be feared, or shunned... I've had serveral posts with mr green, and well lets just say the military is not one of his favorite organizations, for what ever the reasons be.

Then approach the recruiter, and ask him the tough questions, get him to show you the beef so to speak.... Everything is dependent on an IQ and Aptitude tests, the are scored and rated regionally and nationally, those with the best scores will recieve call backs, of course there is a different minimum score required for each job and trade...No where on your appication is there any mention of where you came from, which side of the tracks....etc etc...everything is based on test results, and yes of course your medical results.... I agree he should have a say, that being said our education board and system has to remain as unbiased as possiable, for if MR Greenthumb did not like a certain race, color, creed, or in this case occupation, then MR Green would have to show more undwerstanding...and if he wanted to further his childrens education while in his home he is free to do so....but at school that is another story....within reason... I get the opinion you seem to think that our nations military has to resort in to conning or tricking our young people into joining...not so...we have just recently went into recession, and yes more will be looking for work, but all that means is the quality of people will increase, not the numbers recruited....we just don't have the place to train them.... Our recruits are free to quit any timee during the recruiting process, after that you sign a contract...like any other company...to get into a WAR zone first you must have completed minimum of 2 years training, only the rare exception is made....next you must be a volunteer... With all that training and knowledge it would be imposiable for any indiv to wake up one morning in a combat zone and shout this is not what i signed up for.... Those new military ads on TV Fight fear, fight Caus, fight with the Canadian forces....in those 30 short seconds it gives you a clear picture of what you'll be doing depending on your trade. one day you might find your self in Afghan on a combat mission, the next day fighting floods or doing a rescue from a helo....yes there is no blood and gore, it's for TV, and the rating is g, perhaps if you want the full meal deal then watch entire shows like Combat School which i heard should be aired pretty soon...this is what we do for a living....and we are not the big brutes and thugs we are made out to be....but rather average Canadians that see the world as it is and not sugared coated.... I'm sorry for getting emotional, but not only is it what i do it is what i live 24 hours a day 7 days a week....don't fear something you don't understand, learn and study it...after that you have every right to call me what ever it is you want....

Provide a link please that statres anything close to what you've just posted.... UN Security Council issued Resolution 1368, UN reaffirming the right of member nations (expressed in Article 51 of the UN Charter) to individual and collective self-defence. UN The UN Security Council issued Resolution 1373, UN Article 5 of the Treaty of Washington, which states that any attack on a NATO nation launched from outside that nation shall be interpreted as an attack on all the NATO nations. NATO

Then enlighten me, why the Americans are so concerned over our lack of defences. Why is it they comment on our lack of preparation in most media formats, why is it they are proding us to keep a somewhat modern military underarms,....becuase they are overly aggressive and want to take over, one would think they would be the opposite. As for the history course, are you talking about the war of 1812, is that why i should be rethinking our neibors down south, please tell me i'm wrong. Your joking right, have you read any of these agreements and what they mean to Canada. maybe not....I'll try and give you the readers digest version. NORAD: Enhanced protection from direct military attack. Insight into US thinking on security matters. Valuable training and operational experience Access to US testing Facilties. NORAD monitors and tracks man made objects in space, detects validates and warns of attack again'st north americaby aircraft, missle, or space vehs, and also provides surveilance of our coast lines, and approaches. It gives Canada access to all those tools that would be required to do this type of security work without a massive cost to Canada....not only for the military but for the dozens of other depts and orgs within our security appartus. Who is it protecting us from.... Current threats to Canada.... Terrorism. Proliferation of wpns of mass destruction. Failed and failing states Foriegn esponage. Natural disasters. Crictical infrastructure Vulnerability Organized Crime. Pandemics Both NATO and NORAD assist in combating these security measures.... It's easy for you to sit there and see your self as the superior all knowing and master of all beneath you.... Attacks come in hundrds of forms, be it physical to cyber, to chemical, etc etc ...anything that poses a threat to Canada or any of it's struture....just because you don't read about it every day in the media does not mean it does not happen... Well let me ask you this how can a ship full of danes, mange to land armed troops on Hans island, correct me if i'm wrong but that is Sovereign Canadain territory is it not....and if we can not keep a bunch of nordic viking ski bums out of our north in one small frigate....how could we mange to keep any nation that was determined to land a amphibous assult...to answer your question there are approx 10 or 12 nations that could land an amphibous assault....but as the danes have already shown you don't need amphibous ships to land troops and equipment.... Our artic rangers have already found evidence of Russian spec ops pers in our artic, serveral times, it was eveidence laid out for our benifit....letting us know that they can come and go as they please.... The Past is full of examples of excursions into our territory and waters, i can only assume it's not for our great beer and friendly conversation.... I can't find that anywhere, "Canadian soldiers were fighting a Canadian-funded war in a third world country at the behest of the US" . I've tried to goggle it and nothing....perhaps you can give me a link. Can't find it any where in this link either.... Afghan Not making a difference, i guess that depends on whom you talk....so which source have you talked to.... I Yes, i all comes down to this does it not, sorry you'll have to wait for me to get a ladder, to climb to your lofty perch....but you did not want to debate with a person that is beneath you, you just wanted to ridicule

So your assuming that this recruiter was in fact spewing propaganda, building up the hype that one assumes to surround the military, i mean we are talking about 12 and 13 years old here, how many recruits do you think such a tactic would bring....Recruiters have a set out package they present, yes it may be filled with lots of pictures making everything look like a walk in the park, toned down..... but at this age level it would be geared discussing current and past history, with some of the good and bad mixed in.... and what the Armed forces was doing in our countries name ....not really towards gathering up child soldiers....So a few gadets were given out, what harm does that do.... Thats a crock, the Military provides oppurtunity to all our nations youth, not just those that do not have a calling in life, the military employs doctors, dentists, nurses, lawyers, pilots, you name it, and not just on the battle field, but doing humanitarian missions, rescue missions, across the whole scope of situations..... I get the opinion that it's OK for others to be involved in our nations security just not my kids...or that this recruiter will have some magical hold on your child turning them into some TV warrior....Not true, here in this Nation parents still have full control over thier children, and they can still guide thier children into being anyone they choose....regardless of what any recruiter says, be it military, RCMP, or fortune 500 company. Kids have always been infactuated with the army, how many times have you gone out into the yard and seen them playing at war, cops or robbers. That is until thier attention turns to girls, or boys.... The whole mission of the todays military is to produce a soldier, sailor, airmen, that have a complete understanding of what thier job is and what is expected of them while performing that job, it is drilled into thier heads the exact meaning of unlimited liability and what that means.... todays military is made up of volunteers....made up from across this country, rich, poor, black, white, it's made up of Canadians....whom have joined for many reasons.... I think it would take more than a few MADE IN CHINA trinkets to sway anyone from joining the military or for that matter anything....and while it might hold thier interest for a few days it will be quickly replaced by the next trinket man....Like i said before anyone that joins the military and does not fully understand what thier jobs entails fully in short order is well sir a few bricks shy Sir. And your right there is much more than that, but it is also alot motre than seeing our worlds shitty spots as well... Those 116 died for something they believed in, something they loved doing, giving something we Canadains take for granted everyday...freedom they did not give thier lives for a segretgated nation where only those that have no advantages serve thier nations foreign policy....they joined because it was thier gift to the entire Canadain people , rich, and poor, etc....

Must tear you apart inside knowing that some of these young boys and girls will be standing the line for our country one day...Spewing war propaganda for the conservatives....And here i thought our nations security was not party specific but rather what is in our nations best interest...maybe i'm wrong... But maybe just maybe we can produce a generation that understands alittle bit about our military, unlike your generation that has this unfounded fear about anything that has to do with our security....But then again we are sure are liked when sandbagging the winnipeg river, or Ice Storms, floods, and forrest fires....yup...everyones best friends when it comes down to pulling your ass out of a sinking boat, or crashed plane....but as soon as we start to talk about our jobs....you know the ones you hired us for.....well then that changes everything....

I think that has what has got alot of Americans upset, the fact they are thinking about it, how the US and all of it's military strength does in fact go into keeping all of us safe....The price of our NORAD commitment cost 3.2 bil a year, Canada's contribution to the defence bill is only 300 mil a year less than 10 %....That defence agreement is for the protection of our own nation...and it only gets worse when we expand it to NATO, and other defnece Agreements... And while being being protected somewhat geographically, would have worked during the cold war, todays conflicts can arrive upon our door step as the next flight comes in.... And while we sit in our chairs watch TV every night, what have we as a nation done to improve our security, Can you name anything we've done to get from under this situation....no...Have we has a nation sat down and gave up...except perhaps whine about how we let the bully provide our protection...because we have better things to do other than provide our defence....like what...other nations within this world have closed themselfs off to outside influence, and yet they take thier defence very seriously....perhaps we need to lose it before we can claim it back again... Until we can provide basic protection for our selfs we should not be claiming anything...and as long as we show the Americans we are willing to sit back and do nothing about our own defences we really should be willing to eat any shit they decide to shovel our way....and instead of pionting our fingers and blaming them for everything that is wrong with this world we should be atleast keeping our mouths shut...or saying thanks, for allowing us to spend our tax dollars on anything but defences.....

This is BS, clear debate is what everyone wants but, is to "Canadian" to sit down and discuss the matter seriously....after all is not Canadian to sit and discuss Defence matters, as we are afraid to be labeled as a right wing, or even worse an american...we will however sit and talk for hours on a bil dollar health care system that is in desparate need of fixing....but our defence which lies in critical condition...we'd rather see it die....Nobody is stifling debate except Canadians.... That is because they have grown tired of waiting for our government to bring some aid or relief, that has not come, they have waited for the Canadian people to step up, but they have yet to do that....so while you may see it as dangerous, they saee it as a last ditch effort to save our defence.. I agree with you Canada does not need a huge military, but what it does need is a defence struture that is capable of atleast providing atleast 50% of our defence requirements...not just our military requirements, but RCMP, Coast Guard, CSIS, Communications, National preparness, to name a few....all shelved or given lip service because the Americans foot the bill and we let them....And then we get shoocked when someone rubs that fact in our face....No we are pissed becaused it was our neibours that did the rubbing....will the rubbing do any good no, it is more of a vent than an actual rub....they're tired of footing the bill for the defence of North America, while we rub there noses in how much better we are than them.... Those articles that have been posted here concerning the condition of our forces are just the tip of the ice burg....The media has been publishing them as fast as they come out, we as Canadians can not say we have nor been warned.....

After riding the coat tails for 30 or more years ya i'd be suspicious as well...but if we present them with a well laided out plan, i'd bet they would be more than happy to assist us...it make sense for both countries...after they're goading us to take some sort of action.... Our current plans to build up pose little to no threat to US interests...in fact if anything it creates a stronger secure north....which is good for both countries.... Hence why i don't think we've seen a white paper since, come to think of it i have'nt seen a foreign policy paper put out since then either... I think it would take alittle more than that, but if the US wanted it bad enough they could assert more than just military authority, but econimic as well....but like i said it would take a pretty big need to force the US hand...after all we are thier retarded little brother.... Sorry my bad, i meant we were given a little more than the deadbeats....not that we where a dead beat....but we as nation can give alot more...and stop pionting fingers at who is doing what....instead let the big boys get pissed off and piont fingers.... I agree....the combo of everything would strike a good balance... War sucks, nobody called cyprus and our 25 year stay there either....but we sucked it up....I've seen these guys up close and i'd much rather fight themhere and now than perhaps tommorow in downtown toronto....

Thats not what i was impling, all i said was take over our share of the defence of Canada, nothing about leaving NATO, or NORAD...but rather doing atleast our 50% of the job. That it was a sad statement when we our content, even happy about not even pulling our weight in the defence of our own nation...Currently getting out of any of our defence agreements would not be good for the nation...shit we can't afford to keep our small military afloat now, can you imigine the bill if we decided to take it all on.... No the Americans have been very forward in trying to get us to place more attention on defence, such as the American Ambassador, during the liberal reign, along with countless American generals, politicians, etc etc....i think if they where told we were expanding our military and taking over more of our defence responsbilities they would throw a party.... Yes the PC plan that never even made it off the paper it was written on....kind of like buying a formula one car going to the local corner store...I think thier disappiontment was that we had forgotton about the rest of the defence problem....like an ARMY or the rest of the NAVY, instead we ran right over to the shinney stuff and well it was a dream paper anyway.... then you have not been paying attention... It was a good plan , putting a military presence in the north, but Armed ice breakers....wrong chioce of equipment...the military is not in the ice breaking bussiness thats a coast guard function, one that is really in need of an up grade....no what was need is Ice hardened frigates of corvettes like the danes have....a military ship designed for warefare....big enough to haul up a coy of troops 150 or more and land them and support them for short periods... I'm sure it would concern them, and it would put Canada in a better driving seat, but realistically they would still enjoy massive military advantage over anything we could put up north.... Then lets make up our minds do we have national sovereighty over our north or not because if we do then we should be prepared to claim it or defend it, if we don't then lets deny we have it.... Are we saying we can't do or give any more....or that we are doing as much or a little bit more than the dead beats....keep in mind what is at stake here....If this mission fails and the big boys decide that perhaps NATO has outlived it's usefullness, and perhaps a new coalition needs to be formed....will Canada be included.... No we are one of the larger small fries in Afghan, the US being the largest, with Britain coming in second...keeping in mind that they are also in 2 or more threaters as well....as far as being rotated in and out we've always played a bigger role than we could handle, historically our history is full of it, the Italian campaign, liberation of holland, not to mention the countless examples during WWI, no we've always been in the fight, always punching way ahead of our weight....If our government does decide to pull out in 2011 , our postion will be absorded by the US or British....putting that much more strain on our allies....i think it will be a long time coming before any of the other allies step up.....

Help on the polictical front perhaps, but i don't think we'll see anytime soon Russian or chinese troops in Afghan...The Russian army has still not over Afghan and the Afghans are not ready to see them any time soon either....

I don't think so, i think they would be elated if we just took over our share of defending Canada, which in it self is a sad statement really. we have the resources, we have the ability, yet we just refuse to because of the finicial commitment....For a nation that prides it self on being unamerican, we sure depend on the US for everything, our very existance depends on the US, and how do we reward them for that by shouting to the world just how unamerican we are... Look how we stuggle with other nations over key areas of our north, can we honestly say we would be having these conversations if we could deploy military forces in strength to our north. or if we could even patrol them regularly...How many times has Denmark, landed armed troops on disbuted land, how many times have they planted thier flag on that island....and if we can't get little Denmark to take us seriously can you imigine how Russia and the US must be laughing when we demand that this land is our land... I got this quote from an Army manual i had kicking around. "the largly unremarked practice of founding defence policy on the premise that Canada should have as little defence structure as it can get away with may no longer be acceptable" it was followed up by this tidbit.... These words presage the post Sprt 11 outcry over a possible "canadian conection with the terrorist involved" If Canada was ever perceived either thru action or inaction to present a threat to American saercurity the consquences would be in calculable....there is little irony in the idea that our greatest guarantor od sovereighty might also be considered in some ways it's greatest threat... It's not written to scare up bogey men, but rather make us think that perhaps our free ride is over, and we should be taking defnece alot more seriously.... Perhaps the wrong chioce of words i'm not sure, but lets put this in context, a nation with 36 mil, has a military of only 60,000 people which has a hard time coming up with every 6 mths the 3200 soldiers required to do this mission. And while i'm not cutting up our commitment by any means, there are nations that are shouldering most of the burden, mainly the US, and soon the British. who's numbers are much greater than ours... And while you do have a very valid piont there is many nations that are not pulling thier weight, we should let the big boys piont that out, and continue to do more than our part in this one mission...

Me personally, i think our present defence agreements and treaties are good for Canada at this time and with our current econemy, and current deficit. but they're is a trade off in our current agreements we do not have total national soviegnty. For instance in our NORAD agreement, we pay approx 10 % of the cost to run and maintain air, maritime, space defences...as a result some of our territory comes under US control....in fact the entire NORAD HQ is under US control, as it should as they foot the bill...therefore that HQ's will always act in the US best interest if it came to that... I suggested that If eyeball was to keep his head stuck in the sand, we would need to have more control over our defence and the defence agreements we are involved with.. Actually NATO will decide this, until then we still have an obilgation to keep our commitment...Of course we as a nation can opt out of NATO at any time....I think this war has progress past the piont of defeating the Taliban that has been done, they are no longer a threat to NATO as per say....but they are a threat to Afghan. and since we where involved in a Government removal, NATO has taken responsability of rebuilding the new government...I agree with you it's been a long road....but it's not time to quit just yet.... This mission is very important to NATO and it's future the orginal members have already been talking about whom has really been contributing and who is just riding the coat tails....if it fails there will be lots of questions asked, and perhaps a new allianace formed.... And because Canada has not really taken defence matters to heart, we have fallen well under the 8 ball, and would need to be part of some alliance perhaps costing us more of our national sovereigty. So the outcome of this mission does effect Canada not just on this front but others as well.

I agree that the RCMP have clear direction in which to act, But he did not get his day in court, or his fair trail....and neither did the Mom, who's son is now dead.... If we do not have the facilities to treat these people for life, i mean locked up solid so there is no chance of sitting across from one on a bus.....then they should face the criminal system...if all we are going to do is give them a few meds and let them out , like suggested earlier with the women and the broom stick....it's not thier rights or protection i'm worried about, it's mine, my family, freinds, everyone else that uses public transit, this could have easily happened at 30,000 feet in an airplane....

I call bullshit, provide a link that even suggest that the 2 wars are linked, and identical....or are you pulling this out of that 1/4 inch speaker located in your southern quaters..... No Survivors, shit thats funney, have to remember that next time i'm outside the wire... The treaties we live under do not have caveats that allow Canada to pick and choose what we respond to....Besides those westerners you keep refering to pay most of our defence bills, until we can pay for our own defence we are stuck with those defence treaties and all of our obligations...

No, i'm saying it was a terrorist attack that required a military response....Al quida (the people who planned, carry out the attack), and the Taliban who provided refuge for those attackers.... Shoulda coulda.....Read about our NATO obilgations...The Iraq war and Afghan war are 2 entirily separate issues, not even close to one another....

Well it would be a start, if we as a nation do not want to live up to our obligations of these treaties, to pick and choose which inter national Crises we assist or attend then yes. until then we live up to those treaties or pull out of them and defend our selfs....Something Canadians will not do.... You know as well as i do, that there is no time limit attached to any of our treaty obilgations.

I would hardly call the Afghanistan mission interfering, 9/11 seen the death of over 3000 US civilians, to put that into some perspective pearl harbour seen over 3000 US citizens killed...9/11 required a military response...just as pearl habour did.... And since Canada refuses to pay for all of it's own defence it has entered into a seris of pacts and treaties....Such as NATO, NORAD, etc....signing on to these pacts allows us to live under the protection umbella they afford, with out paying the full cost.....to sum up you get what you pay for, and the act of 9/11 forced us to live up to our treaty obligations, an attack on one member is an attack on all.... So in fact i am doing my duty, upholding our place in the world....you want to stick your head in the sand then start paying in full the bills for defence that would allow you to do so....

They're plenty of soldiers here on this board all capable of independent thought, and very good at critical analysis, if anything a Canadian soldier is very good at speaking his mind and airing out the laundry so to speak. In fact the CDS encourages soldiers to speak to the press and media, as long as they have the knowledge and back ground to do so. It is every soldiers job to question every order he recieves to prove it is valid, and lawful, so i think we can put the mindless robot theory away. Have you questioned, whom have you questioned, or have you contained your remarks to this and other forums....I mean it is your job, and if you have a right to question if i'm doing mine then i should have the right to ask you are you doing yours.....Because from mine end of the stick...your not, you and the other slightly less than 1/2 of the Canadian population are whinning and moaning but really doing nothing.... Your right about the outcome of war, but then again nothing is 100 % guaranteed is it, Diplomatic talks, Economic sanctions, etc etc...in fact there is just as much evidence available to sugest they do not work in all situtions...War should be used as a last resort, when all other methods fail..in most cases....Pearl habour was an act that brought in the US into WWII against Japan, 9/11 was an act that brought to bear NATO military forces against terror.. Then again you could argue the moon is made of cheese, take a look at voter turn out on the first election, and come this years election i think you'll see the same results...Voter turn out was higher than it is here in Canada, not really hard to do, considering the weather plays a big part in our turn out...and yet Afghanis turned out after walking serveral hundered klicks to voting stations, with roving bands of terrorists hunting them down, handing out death for even talking about voting....And while thier democracy may not look like ours or anything in the west....They took these chances with thier lives to vote.....Does that say they don't want it.... Ya watching 4 young Canadians being loaded into a herc does that, makes you weepy....but it does not make peace and democracy rhetoric... You don't get it, this war has always been winable, and the military has been saying for years now that it must be faught and won on 3 fronts, the battlefield....the diplomatic front, and the home front.....The military has not lost a single engagement with the bad guys...it has accomplished all of it's goals it set out....The diplomatic front here in Afgan is doing well, our government at home well not so well.....the home front, barely in the game...and now they want to change the rules and context to cover thier asses, change the defination of success so they do not have to do anything and can piont the finger at someone else...Let me ask you this what is it that you see bringing a victory in Afghan ? and how do we accomplish that ?

Why not Afgan, i mean our history is full of examples of Canadians giving thier lives up freely for countries like Britian, France, the rest of europe, Russia, China, Vietnam, korea, the list goes on and on in fact in may be much easier to name the countries Canada has not split it's blood for....So why not Afghanistan... This week i watched 4 of our young men being loaded onto a herc, to make the long journey back to Canada, i know the pain and tears that will come with that journey, as it starts here on the tarmac........But to these Canadian soldiers who serve here and now this is not a waste of our time, money, and lives....It is our Mission, our duty, our place in the world, as Canadian soldiers to offer a small piece of what we have in Canada, a small piece of what we take for granted every day....a small piece of peace, and hope.... I know for some Canadians it is hard to think that those two words are worth all the effort we are putting in over here....our tax dollars, and for the most part that is the Canadian contribution....But for our Soldiers, wives, friends, families, it is more than that.... it's blood, sweat and tears, and sometimes a life.....and if we are willing to give all that ....why can't the rest of Canada just get on board....

The reason we are in Afganistan has not changed, nor has the victory conditions, atleast not here on the ground. And while alot of politics are played with different subjectys , the reasons remain the same. I just want to piont out that it has been the minority of Canadians that have support our military and mission all along...It has been our soldiers, families, friends that have paid the price, and we have done so with out regrets...with out need to justify..

It would allow our troops serving there now more protection, to secure more of the forward areas with a forward operating bases....it would save Canadian lives...But to answer your question, in the grand scheme of things it would only put a small dent in it....as the US are looking for an addtional 10,000 NATO troops.. True enough, however we knew what we were signing on to when we first agreed to move south, there was no time table, no promises made... Canada contribution is large, but no means massive, a country with over 36 million can only afford to send over 2800 pers and contribute 100 mil a year....don't you think we can do better for a G-8 nation....shit check out what Holland gives.... According to latest available figures from 2005, several G7 European countries, who are key allies in Afghanistan, were contributing well below their equitable burden as donors. The following table compares aid to Afghanistan for a number of G7 donors in terms of their equitable share. Share of Aid to Afghanistan (2005) Donor Burden Share [Country Share of DAC Total GNI (2005)] United States 61.2% 38.1% United Kingdom 10.2% 7.0% Netherlands 3.6% 1.9% Canada 3.8% 3.4% Germany 4.6% 8.6% France 0.9% 6.5% Italy 1.2% 5.4% Japan 3.4% 14.4% Source: DAC Statistics Online (January 2007) PDF Many have said our government has done a crappy job in regards to mission PR... In Afgan anything outside the gate is front lines, but i agree with your statement, however it must be said, Britain and the US are the greatest contributors, and rightly so, however these are the only allies we should be concerned with, for furture defense pacts will probable include them both.... PDF Keep in mind that the US numbers will increase by 35,000...also in the PDF doc, it does not mention the additional 11,000 US pers not involved in NATO mission....so by june of this year thier numbers should be close to over 75,000 troops....plus there is still a need for 10,000 more troops from NATO.