Army Guy

I never said it started out as a humanitary mission, it started out as a combat mission, and was changed intol a combat mission with exception of the rebuilding and humanitarian assistance added. Bullshit, give us a quote.... There is a good fall back postion to take....we always need more troops and equipment....so sorry we are giving you a job that requires 5000 troops to complete here is 2500 make us proud....somwewhat like giving a contractor half the money you need to build your house....and expecting results the next day....only a contractor can tell you to stuff it...soldiers can not... And when one of our nations soldiers complains he is told suck it up, we gave you a mission now carry it out....it is what "we" the people of Canada want....A while that is what the people want they are to damn lazy to make thier voice heard.... No your just the guy that is going to whine and complain about how Canada is run, not willing to do anything about it, just happy to have something to whine about... Yes we reason why everyday, but our very existance depends on the people we serve...and if you don't have our backs then really we stuck out in the wind....alot of people only pay that responsabilty lip serve...

Thats your answer "THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF WINNING", so tell us what kind of win is Canada looking for....stocks in oil, pipelines, resources, boosting our military industry....what if anything could be worth the funding we have already spent.....what is the gain.... If it is not a military win....there must be some economic benifit which is what ? please tell me why your first statement is not retarded.... According to who ? certainly not NATO, nor the PM, so who thinks that victory is impossiable ?....We already established that talks did not accomplish anything, you said you read the link, the Taliban are still not interested in talks....which kind of leaves our current action the only action available right now.....As far as our nation pissing money away, 20 dollars a year out of your taxes is a major investment for a guy like you....and those lives that are pissed away, are our nations soldiers lives, who have volunteered thier time and efforts, time and time again, but that fact blows right by you.... Thats right, we always seem to attack something we don't know anything about, and yet i've seen war close and personal, not as a cook as you suggested, but as an infanteer....mout piont really when there is not front lines, and even our cooks have fired rounds in anger....and trust me if peace was to break out over the world tomorrow i'd be the first to lay down my arms and join the unemployment line.... but in reality thats not going to happen anytime soon is it....

You know as well as i do that talks did not accomplish anything....in fact it was decided that the military opition was the only one left.... Is that what you think.....politicians know where which side thier bread is buttered, and they listen to the people and if the people don't support the mission then there is no money bags for anything.... That has got to be one of the most retarded things i've heard todate....Why would a nation get into a war without first exploring all the other alternatives....2 nd why get into a war if you have no intentions of winning it.... Talks with the taliban

Give me a break, Canadians have prided themselfs on our peacekeeping efforts for over 50 years, which are military interventions....which have seen Canadian soldiers in combat on many occasions, our peacekeeping memorial has the names of those that have perished in those efforts. So this is nothing new to the Canadian people, they knew that fact before they decided to send us over there... The Afgan people saw NATO as a knight in shinning armour, what other organization could effectivly bring peace to this nation...we gave them hope....And now with this mission going on for more than 7 years, one of the main reasons is it is not a popular war, and therefore not recieving the attention it deserves....we agreed to help, we agreed to give them security....we need to keep our promise... As for talks with the taliban, it worked out well during the beginning of the mission, i mean we got what we wanted right...we were handed those responsiable for 9/11 right....Do you really think the taliban are interested in talking right now ? when NATO is stumbling over itself, because it can't mange to garner support for the mission....they know it is just a matter of time....

It is nice when we can piont the finger at a certain group and shout "you are to blame for all this", it was your idea, your lack of planning, your mismangement yada yada yada....It's human nature , we need someone to blame our wrongs on, if not our government then the Americans.... One day i hope that Canadians will be able shoulder thier own responsabilty, and own up to thier wrongs.... But lets take a look at this mission, at the start the Majority of Canadians were supporting it, it was a noble cause, finally a mission that could not be blamed on oil, or other needed resources, but a humanitary mission that all Canadians could stand behind....that most of the world stood behind....troops and equipment poured in Afgan, along with large bags of cash.....Soon we where finding out that the Afgan people are not perfect, coruption runs rampat, thier values and morals do not match ours to a T....thier poor, uneduacated....And instead of digging in to help them over come these issues our support begins to dwindle....to the piont now where a majority of Canadians no longer support helping these people who have not changed over night, but instead are the same as the day we agreed to help them....And now troops and equipment are slowed to a trickle, and the cash...has almost stopped.... I keep hearing that this conflict can not by won by conventional means, this coming from whom ? military experts, someone schooled in military sciences....The military has been giving you the answers, they give them to the media daily....WE NEED MORE TROOPS....and we quickly turn the page or change the channel...What do they know we mutter....Afgan is old news we want a change.... Yes our government does have to shoulder alot of this missions failures....but they are politions interested in keeping thier jobs....and really memic what the general public wants to hear....What do you think would happen if Mr Harper decided he was doubling or tripling our troop strength in Afgan tommorow....would he find himself in another election, i'd bet alot of good money he would....So the majority has his hands tied ...that majority is you and others like you....time to take your share of the blame.... PM Karzai is frustrated and so are the people of Afgan, that it is taking so long to finish the fight with the taliban and insurgents, and yet most western nations are giving as mush as thier public can bear, as the mission is not only unpopular here in Canada but world wide....what we are giving is just not enough....With a new US pres it is time to stop making Afgan our hobby, and start making this our priority....and get the job done.....I've said this a million times already....it does not matter how well our forces do on the battle field....it all hinges on support we recieve back home...support for the mission....with out it this mission will end in failure....and when we decide to record that in our history books....i hope the blame is distributed to all that have contributed to it's failure.... Visit My Website

OH don't get me wrong i'am a big fan of health care, although i was shock at the amounts being pumped into it....and the current status of our health care....DND has approx 80 to 85 of all the governmental infra structure, and it does not spend that much ,as say 48.1 bil spent on O&M for hospitals....

Kimmy, first fighter aircraft now naval ships...you sure your a girl, and where were you when i was single....

It is a core responability just as Health Care is with a budget of 171.9 bil or 10.7 % of the GDP of which over 48.1 Bil dollars a year are spent on Hospitals alone.....DND has what almost a 19 bil dollar budget , kind of makes you think the rest of our tax dollars are being spent. health care

And what about the congo, Dafur, or places like that.

We started to rotate in around jul, ( adv party) took over from the PPCLI in mid Aug....had a few weeks to adjust, and things went to hell, and OP mudusa was on it was our welcome to Afgan party....

Royal Canadian Regt....I think The Gagetown boys did there tour in 2007....

White doors: Good book, i got another for you, a buddy just sent me, It's about 2 RCR tour out of Gagetown NB.... Called Kanadar tour" the turning piont in Canada's Afgan mission" written by Lee Winsor,David Charters,Brent Wilson....

Yes we do but not all military budgets are created equal, Our budget is divided amoun'st many different things, the entire Afgan mission comes out of it, national planning and preparness dept is funded out of it, and many other things....which means when it comes down to dollar and cents spent on equip or pers the 25 th ranked country may actually get more out of the dollar.... Eyeball: Just a second ago you where willing to spend double that on a nuk wpns program that would not work.....

Like i said before, a nation that owns nuks, must show the world that it is willing to use them in there defense....Canada does not have that reputation, nor williness to use the worlds most deadly wpn created.....there are many other reasons for not owning a nuk, once used there is no going back, what ever conflict there is or was will be widen, there are very few nations on the planet that one could nuk and not effect dozens of other nations....so how do you explain to those countrys which now have thousands of thier citizens dying of radiation piosoning.... we had to it was our only means of defense....we where to cheap to buy conventional forces....as they press buttons of thier own....and now we have a foreign army on our shores and a few of our major cities lay in ash, and tens of millions dead.... It is not a matter of who can hit who first, Russia and many other nations have a vast array of launching systems, some that can be over our defenses in less than 15 mins after launch....our north is open territory, Russia spec forces have already explored our north, that is well documented.... Teams could take the over the ice route and knock out what ever defenses we have taking away your ability to strike with nuk wpns if based in the north ....then what....Canada's military today does not have the equipment to respond with force in our own artic....and with the cuts you propose to have a nuk wpns programs we will never have conventional ground forces needed to defend our nation, or aid it in time of crises.... Say like a major earth quake in victoria BC.....thousands would die before we could get help in to assist....and who would we have to blame....no one but our selfs....because of a few dollars....come on.... A nuk wpns program would cost our nation more than it could imigine....for a wpn we have no intention of using, as it would be the start of the end...so no one is going to press that button, i don't care who's at the gates....i'd rather spend the rest of my days doing the goose step, or in some siberian gulag than die a slow painful death from radiation piosoning.....

I've been asked this question many times, check those names that have paid the price or are serving this nation now, and you'll soon change your mind....there from around the globe.....

And that member was me ? or was i just the target ?

We as a G-8 nation, have responsabilities....not all Canadians are happy with someone else paying our defense bill, and then when we go out at night we cut them to pieces...it's time for Canada to grow up...and atleast pay our own way.....to do that we need to play with the big boys....or stop pretending we are big boys....

Stop right there, foreign policy is set by elected officals....and has been for years now....Canada does have foreign policies as does every country like them or not they are there.... Another myth we will raise an army when we need it...i live that shit everyday....today it takes months to produce a truck, tank, years to produce an aircraft, lets not talk about ships....so we should be ready well after the conflict is over....The next war is come as you are, if your not ready, then prepare to speak russian or whom ever the bad guy of the day is.... They have not used nuks, but does that change thier doctrine, no....but they have used chemical warfare across the globe... YA your right, to much training....to many deployments where we get to see first hand mother russias play book, but hey whom am i to tell you about the effects of a Thermal nuc blast and it's effects, if never seen one in person, but i have studied alot of data...and when i say that one does not have to smell shit to know it stinks....a NUK wpn is mans most potent , deadly wpn ever devised....and for a peace loving person it surprises me to find you advocating our ownership... Your right i don't trust Canadians to recognize when to gear up for anything....check your history tell me how many regular force army personal where on the pay role prior to WWI and WWII....then ask yourself this question, who is going to train all these civilians when we do decide to mobilize.....and if they are all training then who is holding the line....and if holding the line is priority then who is training guys like you....perhaps you'll be thrown on the line with no training sort of on the job training...like happened in WWI....good boys paid the price with there lives....but hey what the hell , a small pension payout, engrave a few names on a statue what does it cost the tax payer....let me ask you eyeball what is your life worth to you....So if it is your believes to keep us on a strict diet, and i'm handing out rifles to the new recruits/ replacements....i'll ask you, hows that diet working for you now ? on the line "pte" we're attacking next.... If you are not going to atleast have a miliarty capable of defending or securing or coming to the aid of Canadians, then people like you should have the balls to say...Army guy we don't need you any more, and send us all home....instead of leading us on , with i support you, i beleive in what you do, we'll get you some funding.......save us the agony of lossing good people in conflicts you don't even read about.... IS it.....How many out there would agree to the use of Nuk wpns, in or out of Canada....we can't even agree on military funding, let alone nuk wpns....and then your going to ask if we can use them...shit we get a knot in our shorts when we mishandle or rough up a few terrorists....imagine wiping out entire cities of millions.....in one push of the button....Anyone....nothing but crickets......anyone....

Actually i don't set the standards here, and although i am a long serving member here i do not enjoy any more privilges than you do....but up until now i've let your off colored remarks and personal attacks slide....until you went and complained about the abuse you've suffered from another member..kind of hypocritical if i do say after all the abuse you have flung around here lately....ASSMAN....

Sorry Charles but Mr, keng has either got a huge pair of brass nuts, or is metally challanged...claiming not to know the difference between attacks, or trolling.....calling them sarcastic remarks is a joke....insulting mine and your intelligence. I've taken his attacks with a grain of salt, but for him to address you complaining about a double standard is the last straw....

I've been on deployments with nothing more than a pick axe handle, so i guess a BB gun would be a step up....maybe next time we can skip the lecture, and i'll skip the need to beg for the tools to do the job, and we'll come to the conclusion that if you want to play with the big boys it's going to cost....and maybe.... just maybe Candian soldiers will not have to die in order for us to get the right equipment....

Building wpns in Canada is a wonderful idea, but lets look at it for a minute....We've already established that the R&D funds to design and build Canadian wpns is not feasable....which leaves only one option, purchasing the rights to build and building them in Canada, much like GM did with the LAV fleet...A swiss designed veh, made in Canada...heres the problem, if we need tanks or Close combat vehs who is going to retool here in Canada, who is going to pay for this retooling, and For the amount Canada needs for defense, how long can we stretch out the manufacturing process to make it viable.... Purchasing off the shelf allows us as a nation to for go most of the R&D costs, it allows us to purchase the best the world has to offer, at the time. We are having a haed time trying to swallow the 450 bil total cost over 20 years it will cost us just to maintain what we have now....As many others have said that cost would balloon 100 times if we went on our own....i'd like to meet the team that could sell that to the Canadian people. Purchasing the best the world has to offer is really the prime objective here, going on the cheap, has cause us problems in the past, Can anyone say Iltis, or LUVW, with it's tactical quite brakes that sound like a high pitch squeel that can be heard for miles....One would think that we could atleast give our fighting troops the edge on the battle field, considering it is only thier lives at stake.... It would be nice to equip our forces for peacekeeping, but most Canadian forget or have no clue what peacekeeping is, or how our Nations military is equiped to carry out that mission....we have been sooooo lucky in the past the Medak pocket rings in loud and clear, when troops armed with nothing more than a few M113's and a few anti tank wpns went face to face with heavy armour and somehow held them off....this could have turned out to be one of Canada's heavist losses in peacekeeping if they had pushed the fight to another level....Peacekeeping works when you have the biggest stick.....anything else and your just observing crimes as they take place.... The Canadian military does not want to become one of the largest military formations in the western world...but it does want to not only contribute to our national diaster plan, security of our nation, and enforcing our foreign policy....But it also wants to do all this and be able to bring back all it's soldiers alive and well....and for that to happen we need modern equipment....

Really, you should read up on Soviet military doctrine, the use of WMD are included right down to the tactical level, Sub units as small as divisions size have Tac nuks, and right down to brigade size for chemical shells and rockets...you don't distribute them that far down the food chain unless you plan to use them in the opening volleys.....Not much has changed in Russia today.... Russia not only believes in thier use but also they can win in a WMD enviroment, one of the few nations that trains regularly in a live WMD enviroment...which means they train with live chemical agents regularly, such as nerve, mustard, blood agents...there training losses are incrediable...you don't go through all that effort unless, you meant business... I think we all forget the destructive power of todays nuc wpns. an avg Russia city killer has the power to destroy almost everything within a 300 km radius, a wpn dropped in toronto would have devasting effects on Ottawa, every out to the 150 km raduis would be killed out right or within 3 to 7 days due to radiation poisoning....anything out to 200 to 300 km would or could live more than 14 to 21 days.... you start combining hits from major cities such as toronto , ottawa, detroit, and you have over lapping effects, which would kill faster, and effect more of the populations....My figures may be off by some, but you get the drift, nuc are the ulitmate destructive wpn known to man.... We live in a country that can not even buy helos' without some sort of scandal or major debate....how are we going to start a nuc wpns program.... Top this off is they are not an opition in a lot of cases, lets say droping on or near europe, or some Arab state would effect the entire region, readiating the country side for 1000's of km's in all directions.....pissing off more than just one attacking nation....but increasing the conflict by a thousand fold... Having them is one thing but for them to be a deterent the nation must show a will to use them....we don't have that...Someone mention Israel, who has had nucs for quit awhile now, and they have still been involved in serveral major conflicts....not much of a deterent there.... Nuc wpns program is much more expensive than purchasing a ground force, Just ask Iran or Syria....

After reading alot of post here , I'm not really sure your fully aware of the current state of our military...I won't talk about the Navy or airforce, because i know little of what is going on in those elements, but remember the Army is the rich cousin and if the army is bad, the other elements are worse.. Don't get me wrong we like most of the equipment we operate now, in fact some of it is top of the line, our Lav III is a world class veh, however, the Lav IV and LAV H are already in production putting our vehs 2 generations behind....Afgan is taking a toll on these vehs using them up at incrediable rates, wearing them out, or lost to battle damage....Units in Canada are lucky to have more than 1/3 there compliment....which means there are not alot to go around, not many for training, and because there is fewer... means they are in constant motion, so we are wearing out those ones quicker as well.... What does get purchased is equipment for use in Afgan, and a few samples to train on in Canada....which is good, but is becoming a problem as most of this equipment, is seen by the soldiers for the first time preparing for Roto to afgan, regular units in Canada rarely see the new stuff.... which means they are using some equipment that they are still becoming familar on, when it should be second nature to them.... What we need is for equipment purchases be made in qty's to outfit not just all reg force units in Canada, but also amounts for our res units as well, which means much bigger contracts....keep in mind that all this nice to have equipment is sitting in Afgan, not Canada..... Anyways i think you get the piont, our military is in sad shape, and while i applaud the cons for moving us forward, serious action needs to be taken, quickly, as our shape erodes daily and there will come a time when regardless of what you put into it, it will be nothing more than an empty shell....and we will be force to rebuild everything from the bottom up... we have just over 59,000 personal in the Army, Navy, and Airforce...Just to give you something to compare that to, The US marines have more women in uniform than we have military....An Avgerage NHL staduim could comfortably seat everyone charged with defending this nation.... keeping in mind that 1/3 of out fighting forces are in Afgan, either there or preparing to go....Anyways i'm done venting...time to get some rack time...

Having a wpn that you have no intention of using is well a waste of time and money and offers no deterent at all. A nation with nuk wpns must show, or prove that it has the will, the means, and the support of it's people to use such wpns.... Canada has none of those...if we can not convince them to buy a few tanks how would you convince them to purchase serveral nuks....Eyeball for someone who looks for an easy way out i don't think you've thought this one through.