Army Guy

Perhaps i am, but i never underestamte anyone or anything....and with Russia which has a long history of proving to be the master of disception....i mean everything they do seems to be to that piont, And while yes we have been lead to believe Russia is in shambles, coruption every where you look, military rusting away, etc etc....I'm still leary and so should we be, if history is to be believed. And if anything the Russian's are a strong believer in mother Russia, and i don't think it would take much for them to be wiped up for the right cause....and anything anti american or western could do that...

I thought playing with fairies was what got him into all this trouble to start with....

I don't agree , Mother Russia never does anything without thinking long and hard, and having 2 or 3 back up plans....i think they cut them loose because it would save them money....Mother Russia still has the military might and will to use it to rein them in when she feels the need to.....Gorgia, even with the threat of US support Russia still took action...and as long as it's in thier back yard, even the US would be crazy to take direct action.....

I'm not sure ...i know the daughter has been involved with fund raising activities but i'm not sure the mother had any conection to this....if so that may be an opening.... But this has been discussed before, in regards to OMAR cases....that now that he has been proven guilty and charged, under US court of murder and terrorist activities can Canada now infact charge him for treason.....

I'm sure there is , however preventable only because they are profit driven, cutting corners and putting lives at risk is due to greed.... In DND we are not profit driven, in fact we are tasked driven, close with and destroy the enemy, and destroy more of them than they destroy of us.....and do it as quickly as possiable because it cost money to have a force on the battle field big money..... As far as not being the most dangerous job in the country, shit sure pick what every one you want....my last tour in Afghan i spent 195 days in country 163 outside the wire and my Company was involved in 197 TICS, or engagements with the enemy, which ranged from getting blown up, to shoot outs, etc etc.......and if i could pick being in Afghanistan or on some crab boat....i know which one i'm choosing....Now i may be wrong but i never heard of any suicide crabs, or them planting IED's, and while it is not my intention to diss or take anything away from crab fishers,but if they want the title then so be it....what i do know is i've walked a few miles in my boots, and i've not done any crabbing.... I agree there is a price on everything...but once again your making the wrong comparison, he is making that call or judgement in view of profit, DND job is not profit driven, we are the last tool in the box of diplomancy, and when that fails the military is called in.... Another piont that fails to come up is we as a nation decided to cut funding for DND for more than 10 years, in order to pay down debt....which is fine, however those 10 years of purchasing and replacing equipment must be made up some where, OR you need to decide to cut capabilities, meaning give up something in order to have status quo....And we knew that when we decided not to fund purchases for that 10 years....As for the risk factors, i can not for the life of me figure out why our government does not lay out this purchase and the needs for it...instead of using the weakest one of all Mother Russia. I think i've covered this on another post, there is clear evidence that lives have been placed at risk or could have been minimized with better equipment....it's all been covered in the media, but i'll give you a few for starters, Ilits jeep, helo transports, helo gunships, indirect and direct fire power, shit we arrived in green Cad pat and for more than a few years stood out like sore thumbs in the desert....the evidence is out there...all we have to do is research each death of each soldier and ask why? or could it have been prevented....or research the very reasons stated to purchase equipment we already have on order, chinnoks, TPAV vehs, Leo II A6M tanks....each one of those purchases where made or being made because Soldiers paid for them in lives... Not all militaries are created equal or armed equally, or are in the same postion of danger...but looking at most contingents i would say yes, however no one can compare to the US military, as they have all the toys, nor would it be fair to compare us to the British Para's who are light inf.....but i'd also say we are continueing to climb the ladder slowly.... Is it statistically more dangerous than other industries where risk is inherent? Is it getting more dangerous over time, or is it getting safer?

History must be full of fallacy then ....it's all out there from the day we arrived in Afghanistan until today, we are still replacing kit we should have had before our government and people of Canada sent us over there....The fallacy part is the media covered it all, including all the deaths from IED's, our lack of air support, our lack of helo transport, our lack of direct fire support, our Armoured vehs the entire gambit and none of it would have been replaced until soldiers started coming home in bags.....yes sir that is fallacy....and from the end i was sitting on, you can't bullshit me and say the people wanted the best equipment for our armed forces....when infact they did not no what gear we had in the first place, because it was already to old for battle.... The people, it's funney you talk about people...do the people pick out what fire truck the fire dept get, what type of police cars the RCMP get....but all of sudden we have the people who are experts in military equipment they know exactly what we need and the qty's we need it in....AND shit we don't like to be swindled, great i don't like to be swindled either as a tax payer ...nor do i like my ass getting blown off because we went cheap on some wpn sys.... When was the last time a white papar on defense written....So DND has to base it's 20 to 25 year future plan based on this old document, which clearly spells out what THE PEOPLE expect our our forces to accomplish, it also clearly spells out how much funding is to be made available, what equipment we are to purchase etc etc etc ....The real experts in the case of the F-35 are the Canadian Airforce which has spelled it out for you....of all the aircraft available the F-35 is the one they have chosen after over 10 years of research....it is the aircraft that fulfills all the missions our government and the people have tasked DND with. But Now there is so called experts all across the country demanding we purchase everything from A-10 ground attack planes to Euro fighters....most of these aircraft where looked at in this study, OK maybe not the A-10 ....and turned down....Plus the other options such as Unmanned fighters, to air defense systems where also looked at ... And because you don't understand or have not read the study, or our government has done a shitty job once again in explaining why we have chosen the F-35 ....the People decide they are being swindled....and some fat airforce gen is getting a big check for selling the F-35.....not true....

Im not sure what you can charge her with, i'm sure family services has a long list of charges or actions it can take. there must be something connecting that family to terrorism...

Me and some of my colleges where discussing our military carears today, and all of have but a few regrets but the only one that had a common thread was this....How tight the Canadian people where with there defense dollars....how just how little they give a shit about the equipment they are willing to give our troops.... And while a good portion of Canadians do care, it is that other side that has given us concern....Canada has a long and i mean very long history of providing it's troops with poor or obsolete equipment....which dates back well before the the First world war....and while we have had some spectaclar equipment it has not been available in the numbers needed to do our jobs....and it has cost lives in the process....That is truely our only regret, that the Canadian people had the power to change that , and chose not to... Nobody even blinked when the military budget was slashed to pieces in order to bring down the debt, Nor did they do anything when our pension fund was drained to once more bring down the debt....it's all about the cash...show me the money...when it comes to the military that is....i mean what ever happened to the G-8 sumit, let alone the games....sure we blinked but then quickly went back to sleep....shit thats what 20 to 25 planes right there....but we looked good did'nt we.... And this never really sank in until it was explained to me by a politician....if you can beleive that....infact it was even made public not so long ago by a government beaucrat at veterns affairs....a soldiers life is equated in dollars....it cost one years wages , the price of a funeral, and SSIP benifits paid out approx 250 k per soldier....see it is cheaper to have a soldier come back in a bag....than injured, or to pay for new equipment.....Thats our regret...when did that happen when did lifes become 2 and fiddle to funds... I understand it takes alot to run this country and right now defense is not on the top of the list....i get that...but you also have to remember that when you cut something someday that is going to have to be brought back into the mix....someday that price is going to have to be paid by us the tax payer...and if your not going to pay it, then we as a nation are going to have to re address WTF our military is going to be used for....So that the men and women that currently make up it's ranks can decide if that is the organization i want to support with my very life....i mean i think we owe them that much....there are men and women including myself that would serve this nation even if we had a row boat for a navy, a kite for a plane and steel bath tub on wheels for a tank....and would be proud to do it....but when one of our comrads deaths could have been prevented it makes us second guess our commitment only because we doubt your commitment to us..

I'm as confused about that one as you...But i would assume it is because we don't have the will, this is not about a boy,or terrorism it about politics....and votes....why else do we have a terrorist family in which half of them have not had a day in court but are just as guilty as omar.....and yet are living off our teat.... It's got nothing to do with the words, it's about clarity....can anyone say without a doubt what exactly the GC conventions say....without having a laywer go over them over and over....because that is exactly how soldiers learn it....a military lawyer explains them over hours of lectures and classes....it should not need a lawyer but aclearer language, who and what is entitled to what and when.... Al Queda is not a real army, it's a group of fanatics bent on perserving a way of life in which they had full control over another group...and they don't care who they kill or murder to bring back the old days....which would allow them to kill and murder anyone who disagreed with them....thats their grievance....the regular Afghan people on the other hand, they are sick of being at war, being oppressed and controled....and all they want is peace, and a job, some money to raise thier kids....thats who we as a nation backed away from....and now we hold one of these terrorists up to the light and offer up the counttries crown jewels....hail to the terrorist boy ....how dare us trying to stop them from controling those dirty Afghanis who wanted peace.....Hail the terrorist boy....

Do you own a car ? why is that, i mean you do have 2 feet, ok i'm assuming you have 2 feet right....when do you replace your car, when it becomes to old and cost to much to keep it on the road....and when you purchase it do you look at new models or do you strictly look at the used models.... your logic does not make sense...and when you put it in context with our histroy of purchasing new equipment which is on average every 20 to 25 years.....does it not make sense now to purchase one of the best aircraft on the market knowing in 25 years we will still be flying them.....or does it make sense to purchase an aircraft that is already nearing it's productivity...such as the super hornet, when production of this aircraft will have stopped in 5 to 10 years.....i mean who is going to be dumping huge amounts of R&D funding into the F-18 so in 15 years time we will be stuck with an aged platform, with limited tech support, and no really upgrade version...why because it will all still be going into the F-35....we could have still been flying the F-104 according to your logic....it still flys can still do the job....

Todays military is not as rosy as some may think , while yes we have had a few good years under our belt, and have somewhat fattened up , our future is looking like more belt tightening.... A quote from Chief of Transformation” in June, Lieutenant-General Andrew Leslie.... Below is an article from the globe and mail which has been doing articles on the military all week, take a read, even some interviews from the airforce on the F-35....a good read...another perspective. My link

No what it needs is a process put in place to hunt down those that employ children in conflicts and make them accountable with punishments that will deter the practice.... what also needs to be done is stop treating this group like they are just cute and cuddly children, when the day before they were raping, murdering, and terrorizing inocent civilains.....because they are a dangerous bred, and while treatment should be forced upon them, it should be done with purpose,not by some retired mom, but by professionals and those not savable they should be locked up for as long as it takes.....they should also know that they are going to be held accountable....

Jerry, believe it or not but Canada does have a foreign policy, and it does extend well past our borders. even the swiss have a foreign policy....and it does require something or someone to defend it. As for no national security threat, that is not what DND, CSIS, RCMP are saying the list of threats is numerous. on top of all that we have signed on to mulitple defense agreements which are 2 way, and require our nation to have a military that does have a multi mission capability... Home defense is our first priority, and within our current budget thats hard to do. considering the many things that impact on that such as our nations size, etc etc....however we did sign onto defence agreements and they must be covered as well. i think the answer is , lets ask lockheed and the US government how much it cost them to develope the F-35, and then ask our selfs can we afford to do that across the board with every piece of equipment we need....and would all that be cost effective spending all that money when we are only going to build 65 copies.....i think we've already been down that road with the Avro...

OK now your reaching, if your thinking we got these brand new toys lets go and try them out that is just crazy........that has not stopped our country before sending in troops with improper kit....why would that change because we have the kit.....

WOW...this is not a ford pick-up it is a an aircraft...each part on each aircraft is catolouged and detailed records kept, on how many hours of useage each part has..., alot of those parts have a life span, depending an a long list of things, but in the end it has a life span attched to it, these parts are replaced on or slightly before that life span is reached...broken or not they are replaced , to be rebuilt, or trashed.... this goes on not just in military aircraft but every aircraft.....for obvious reasons...So we will be replacing parts on day one, until the day we retuire them.... The 8000 flight hours is assigned to the airframe only, which can be extended with an upgrade such as the one our F-18's have gone through....replacing parts on a regular scedule is what makes them so safe....the clock starts once the engine is fired up for the first time....during the manufacture process...

Thats a fair question , have you've every flown a fighter, are you a pilot, every had your life depend on a fighter, so what is your knowledge based on....I eman from reading your posts on the topic, you must have some inside info, more than DND has access to.... I think your Airforce General has already passed judgement of sorts , you can't compare both have been designed and purchased for different reasons.....you can't compare a gen 4 aircraft again'st a gen 5... Who has said the Typhoon is a better plane.... and using more of your logic if it's to believed, the Russians are 20 years or maybe never able to build anything near the ability of a F35 then the only thing we really need is a Super Hornet equal if not better by your wisdom than anything the Russian or Chinese could ever build... The experts in the matter of fighter jets , in this case the Canadian airforce have studied the problem, for more than 10 years now, they've looked at gen 4 aircraft, UCAV, gen 5 aircraft and they have come up with the best aircraft for there needs is the F-35 right now.....why is that so hard to fathom or accept....because it does not fit in with your vision....do you even wear a uniform, no....But your screaming it's my tax money....well here is a news flash every member of DND pays taxes as well, and yet they don't have a say in what i can watch on CBC, how our health care looks like or the long waiting periods, in fact those decisions like it or not we have very little say in.....Thats life.... This is not about money....it's about politics....and playing with lifes....use to be at one time lifes meant more, now it's all about show me the money......what ever it is we buy, i hope one day you, or your son is laying next to me in some foreign land waiting for an air strike to come in....and 50 sopwith camels come over the ridge, i can turn and smile at you...see your tax dollars at work boy...great ain'nt it...don't worry they won't all fall out of the sky, some are going to crash on the target....

I thought that in the contact with lockheed that for every dollar we invested lockheed would invest the same in Canada, i also thought there are some major contracts to be had in canada, not for just our portion of the contract but for the entire program...... I also like to know what other 5 th generation aircraft could have been offered, we had already decided the F-22 was out of price range....so whats left

Lets re wind the tape for a second....prior to the 3 afghanis soldiers knocking on the door....as the Soldiers enter the village, the alarm is raised, the women and children distract the soldiers who at this piont are looking for something out of the ordinary....every dweeling knew the village was about to have company.....at this piont they meaning Omar and his buddies had serveral choices, leave....via the back way...great the soldiers let them do a search and move on....or draw first blood as they did....the piont is they had choices....they chose to fight... Not because they had no choices but because that is what they wanted to do....most would have left, it was a patrol that in all proablity would have moved on when they found nothing.....and while i will agree with you they do understand right from wrong, they don't have the same reasoning skills as a mature adult.....but anyone could have told you greeting an armed group of soldiers with gunfire was not going to end very good for them..... It does not apply in this case, if it did then the entire terrorism agreement would mean nothing, i'll explain, it clear states that illigal combatants are not afforded any protection under the genva convention ( small exceptions)....which includes this agreement, as it also is part of the convention....i know it is not clear, but in the example you provided an armed group is reffered to one that is following the convention, ie carrying arms openily ,uniforms etc.....as soon as they do not follow that simply conduct then they put regular civilians at risk....which is the entire reason behind the conventions to protect civilians, wounded, sick, etc and to give a few guide lines to soldiers before the bash in each others heads in.... The conventions make it clear to what is a terrorist, terrorist group etc and to what protection they can be afforded....it was written before the child agreement, and it does need to be clarified.... I wish it did, or more to the piont i wished Canada had the will to persue it...but i'm not holding my breath... And as much as it pains me your right, we as a Nation should have done something....Saying that we as a nation also needed the will to ensure that justice was served as well....something i've said here before i don't think our justice system is ready for Omar just yet...

The great Oleg gets caught in his own trap....one that you yourself have set many times... I would have thought the moral of the story would have been not to play with gay men or atleast bring your own boat when playing music for flammers.....

Here is an interesting article in the globe and mail the other day....it addresses some of the defence choices that have to be made in the next 20 years........Warning....if the 16 Bil for jets blows your mind then don't take a look at what it is going to cost you over the next 20 years.....for those weak hearted find your pills now, and remember hook the neg terminal up first to the right nipple, postive to the left, and shout clear.... Tough choices for defence

I really hope for our veterns and still serving pers that is not true, i just wondering how a significant amount of canadians can look a vet of Afghan conflict in the eyes, seeing his missing limbs and knowing that for his service he was paid out a maximum of 250 K (a rare case indeed), and told to carry on with his or her life.... while a young terroist combatant was welcomed home a hero, and quite possiably paid out many more times than that....something to chew on....a great motivator for our young men and women in uniform today....but also sends a clear message to the rest of those discontented Canadians by birth fantical it's OK to take up arms, again'st Canada...infact it actually pays out more.....

I like to add something, killing is legal, provided it is within the guide lines set out by each nation.... if it is your job to do so, and you've been asked to so... IS it wrong, thats something each policemen and soldier will have to answer for , on the day he meets his maker....i think it is why God does not make it easy....mentally or physically , then he makes you live with it forever...atleast until the day you meet him face to face.... Yes the rules have changed, slightly...but then again we are talking about war, which has very little rules to start with....and while we have rules that are suppose to protect old men , women , children, they are hollow and not very well enforced....IE Omars mom , we know what she did was wrong, but we lack the courage to enforce it.

Yes rebel militias , and if you've seen pictures of these kids, they are in uniforms, carry arms openily, or have bands or something similar to indentify them as such.... conforming to the conventions... How did that work out for them..... It does if your brought up in that culture and don't know any better.....it still does not change the fact that our young mr Omar was considered an adult in the Taliban regime, or for that matter in Afghan today....now your fishing i've said nothing about child bribes....so i've claimed nothing.....But your right in my mind i think at age 15 he should be home playing on his play station , expermenting with girls, smokes , and beer....not on the battlefield...however you can not say at age 15 he was not capable of knowing right from wrong....That planting mines and killing NATO soldiers collecting bounties was wrong....lets keep in mind this is the kid that will be roaming our streets soon.... Really maybe you should re read the History of the taliban and AL Queda, while there may of been some cross over it does not share the same history....but i guess the northern alliance also full of cross overs from the Mujaheden sinks that theory.... And while they may of been considered freedom fighters did they employ terrorist tactics again'st there own, the Russian civilian population.....what was their target....russian soldiers...military targets....what was that difination of a terrorist again....someone got that link to the UN site ? I'm baised really because i've traded bullets with is buddies....here i spell it out if you use terrorist means to accomplish your goals your a terrorist...and according to the genva convention and inter national law that is again'st the law, and you will be branded a terrorist, no longer afforded any protection available to you by those 2 laws or conventions..... it does not matter which side your on...thats the law....i can't explain it any simplier....if you have proof that any country, individula or group broke that law take it to the inter national courts....but here in this forum it's a mout piont until it is proven.....in omar case it is proven, shit he confessed....

Actually Melanie this entire situation came about with x 3 Afghanis regulars knocking on the door to the compound Khadr and his merry buddies were in, they were greeted with a hail of gunfire in which 2 of them where killed....by you guess it omar and his buddies....So the answer to your question is yes the soldiers where aware of why they were there, they also understand the ROE's very well....And we are talking about a 15 year old here, an age in which is very common for insurgents, remember the country is dirt poor, and fighting pays well... No Canadians or US pers would be fighting, because of the agreements we have signed on to. it is illigal to have anyone under the age of 18 in a combat zone.... Sorry should have been clearer, when this agreement was signed it was meant to address the problem of child soldiers in those 2 areas, the agreement does cover the entire globe, that being said the agreement covers child soldiers, it does not cover terrorist or Illigal combatants....of which Omar is clear one... Your piont about bringing Omars mother in and holding her accountable i very much agree with. if we don't then this entire agreement we've signed is just a shell, empty document....

And you make it sound like he was on prison lock down.....that he was effectivly told to shut up and do as he was told, which was to become a good little terrorist... And yet Omar and his brothers have all stated that while their lives certainly were mapped out for them, they had control as young as 13 when they where considered adults....proof of that is when their own mother, and some relatives tried to convince Omar and his brother to become suicide bombers, "blow themselfs up for the cause", make mommy proud....both had refused they had known exactly what that meant....it would mean they were not full believers, and life meant more to them some religious learning of recieveing some virgins,and living in paradise.....it meant they were afraid to die....it also meant that Mommy did not have full control over her sons destiny any more.....if she had they would be pink mist today and none of this would be happening.... Omar had plenty of chances to leave and stop the life he was living , as a terrorist....but he has said more than once he enjoyed it....And don't tell me at 15 he did not know that all his training he had done to date was for...at 14 he was on active operations he assisted with gather Intel on NATO convoys, he was learning how to make and plant IED's, he was taking part in combat operations by planting them with one purpose to KILL as MANY NATO soldiers as he could....to collect the bounty that was offered...He knew exactly what he was doing , and he knew what was wrong and right.....