Army Guy

We have laws for a good reason, unfortunitly a few dick heads are ruining the entire protesting process and you seem good with that....you place the blame for this entire situation on the police....And while they're proformance was not steller, we can hardly place the entire problem at their feet...which is my piont...there is plenty of blame to go all the way around...

The first day , id have to agree with you, but lets give them credit where credit is do, Noraml policing duties don't include dealing with large crowds very often,and while they did recieve a few weeks of training on riot situations, they where still pretty green.... I suspect after the first day, thier chain of command kicked them in the ass, and told them to get more aggresive....hence the mass arrests....and while they proable did go a little over board....lets keep in mind riot control in Canada is not something we are good at...and thats a good thing i guess.... Shit even in the military riot control is a lost art....nobody does it any more, and while most recieve a week course it is a whole different ball of wax when faced with large crowds...things can melt down fast, on both sides....get kicked in the nuts a few times from protestors and your "nice guy out look goes out the window"....out comes the night stick and soon bashing in a few heads...for the most part they where restrained...sure a few bruises...but you can't take someone down and cuff them with out a few bruises.... Sorry i was being a bit sarcastic, at ground level it is very difficult to know who are the ring leaders or dick heads they are running about mixing with the crowd....sure they're police guys putting it all on tape, and taking pictures....but it is very difficult to tell the difference , and even more difficult to grab one of these pricks because you can't leave the formation....it's much easier to move the entire riot control formation and surround the entire group....then just start pulling people into the center to be arrested.... A simple "we don't want your kind in our protest Screw off works sometimes....an old lady with a heavy purse works as well....that or stop and delay your advance unitl the dick heads leave or get out of range...can't tell me that there was'nt any big burly guys involved in the protest have them tell the punks to shove off....for the most part the punks are there to cause mayham....not to get beat up.... Lets not forget, these punks are responsable for these protestors not getting thier message out....in fact they are the reason everyone was treated the way they where....no dick heads then really no need for crowd control.... Like i said, lack of experience with riot situations, topped of with far to many dick heads, and things turned ugly....Your fustration should be towards the dick heads in black...not the cops....who had no chioce but to be there.....besides anyone involved in any protest knows or should know there is a good chance the dick heads are going to get nasty and things are not going to go well for everyone.... to the cops you all look the same, act the same i've seen lots of peaceful protesters get shoved back by advanceing police lines , get fustrated and soon they are one of the dick heads, throwing things, pushing and punching back..... They had more ground to cover than the protesters did, alot more jobs to do....over all nobody died, except a fw bruises and a 24 hour stay in a make shift jail what do they have to complain about....remember everyone knows a protest can quickly turn into a riot....if you knew that before hand why take the chance on going down there unless you wanted to be a part of it....some just got to experience more of it than they bargined for....

Really the ICJ, could you provide a link into their verdict, as i could not find it any where.

You mean when dealing with the outside world...because i find that alittle odd, coming from someone who does have an opinion and is not afraid to voice it....

The key word here is the punishment can be vetoed, but not the verdict,or their decision...that will always remain on record. and yet in this case no verdict or decision was reached.... Some of them for a good reason, Israel is not very popular in the middle east,or other areas of the world...

And while they may not of performed like a bunch of angles, they did mange a very large crowd, and did basically keep the peace...And in all this we fail to recongize the true villians here the radical protestors themselfs....i mean if not for them there would be no need for a police presence, nor no Bil dollar security bill....SO we ask our police officers to keep us safe and protect the public....and in doing so we spit in thier faces, call them names, threaten to bring law suits.... And all this time these Black Bloc, or whatever thier handles are are sitting back telling thier stories to thier friends in between "pass me that spliff"....some of whom where charged with minor crimes which caused us tax payers what ? Yes they are sitting back laughing at us all, as we piss on those who actually put thier safety on the line to protect us..... Can't wait until the next riot when the punks are running rampant , destroying shit, and the cops are sitting back watching it all from thier cars , because last time the stepped out to help it cost them a law suit....and all they got for thier troubles is spit on.... Ran roughshod over constitutional rights, some serious charges, But it is easy to pick out those involved in peaceful protest, from those just being dick heads....in a mixed crowd.....funney how the peaceful protestors did nothing to separate themselves from these assholes, nor did they police their own crowd....instead just whinned and complaining when police started to round them all up.... Me to, and the next riot there may not be a police presence or one worth a damn in a riot situation, and when someone gets seriously hurt or killed, or enough damage is done there will be screaming once again...for a stronger police response....kind of catch 22.... I just wonder how much training these police officers actually had , how much experience they had with large crowds in a riot situation....with the limited training they did recieve i think things went well...not perfect but well... As for this driving away those who are only interested in peacefully protesting and getting thier message across, well, as long as there are dick heads in the crowd who only gripe is to put it to the man, and do some crazy shit....then those peaceful protestors should find another avenue to have thier voice heard...or take care of the dick heads before hand....or they can stay home....

Why is that ? So you can hold your head up high and sing to the world we as a nation have high morals and values....that we conducted ourselfs in a decent and civilized way.... And yet the very nature of conflict it self forces our nation, it's Government, it's people, it's soldiers to carry out everything that goes again'st those very morals, and values....You are asking us to carry out a heinous act and then want us to follow some code of conduct so that those aat home can say "we've carried out an honorable fight"..... A fight where it's ok to extingish life via every wpn the modern world has to offer....be it from slitting someones throat with a rusty baynet , or vaporizing someone at 2000 meters with a 25 mm cannon.... Because that is honorable ....but it pisses you off to no end when we take advantage of an internal conflict.....come on...are you that gullable to think anything about any conflict is honorable, in keeping with our values and morals.....

________________________________________________________________________________________________________ International court of justice. My linken.wikipedia.org/wiki/ International criminal court. My linken.wikipedia.org/wiki/

I'll have to admit i never paid much attention to this entire issue, But even if this is true what is it that Six Nations intends to do with this info...What is the end goal is really my question , i mean even if true it is highly unlikely that everyone currently living on that land is going to move....are they looking for a cash settlement....Rent ? what.... Another question i have is if they are not subjects of the British crown, now the Canadian government Then do they also forfiet all the benfits that the govenment pays out now....

Air defense over the north is a major part of our NORAD defense agreement with the US, which includes intercepting any aircraft threat flying over the northern air space of north america....be it Russian , civil anything....Our NORAD agreements also include Maritime threats as well , being able to indentify and track any possiable threat in our northern waters....plus have the ability to engage any of these threats if deemed nessicary..... the F-35 gives more range and capabilities than any F-18 on the market today. In fact it has more range and capabilities than any other offered fighter that was being looked at... Our other defense agreements also have a mandate that we has a nation be inter operable with other nations as well. Our NATO commitments dictate that we must be able to provide a Fighter, for air superiority and ground support as well. Our current F-18 fleet has little to none capabilty to fire or drop percision guide munitions....in fact we can drop dumb bombs, and fire the basic air to air missles.... And while it is almost a given that Canada will proably never fight a defensive engagement on it's own territory, our defensive agreements we have signed with other nations are not so forgiving....they have taken us to Kosovo, Serbia, Bosina, Afghanistan, and yet we have been some what lucky that none of these have had any serious air craft threats....but they have had some very modern air defense wpns....remember it was the serbs that shot down a F-117 stealth aircraft.... We as a nation have taken on some very deadly opponets in the past where having an edge in combat has made all the diffence....our history is also full of Canada's fighting men and women having to fight with sub par equipment...Ross rifle, Sherman tank, Iltis , we must not forget that these people we are straping into these machines are Canadians first and foremost, brothers and sisters , fathers and mothers....and if 10 bil gives them a edge in what ever mission we assign them i think that most Canadians would agree we should support them ...... This is BS , Russians will sell anything to anyone, Iran just recieved one of the worlds most deadly air defense systems....It continues to sell it's top shelf aircraft to whom ever can pay the price tag....aircraft designed and built to counter the US F-15, F-18, F-16....Shit all one has to do is find a 3 rd world country and pull up it's inventory and it's full of Russian equipment.... Just check on whom the Russians have been selling planes to in the last 3 years....the list is full of 3 world countries, NO in the end a fighter must close with an enemy aircraft to get close enough to launch it's missles....saying it's the missles thats the worry is just RTFO of there ....it's the platform thats going to get you into the kill zone...it's the platform thats also going to keep you there, or from becoming a kill yourself....

Our current disability coverage was a cost cutting adventure by our government of the time, it is much cheaper to pay a one time payment (maximum 250,000) (very rare) than it is to pay out a monthly payment until coverage ceases or death occurs. It is a very lengthy process just getting this coverage, A soldier must prove it happened on military time, he must have all the proper medical/ Admin paper in order, along with witiness statements etc etc...Once he has all this then off to see Veterns affairs, which will take a look at your case send you to see a independant doctor, be reassesed ,fill out more paper work, all of this is then shipped to a Veterns affairs board, which will in most cases low ball the first offer, in which a soldier can accept or redress, which opens up another lenghty paper war, in which involes lawyers, and another board, which will once again hear the entire case , only this time with the soldier present, this board does have the powers to change the offer, but it works both ways lower or higher... Some examples of awards already given out 25,k for a soldier who has loss of arm movement, severe back problems , 60 k for a soldier with loss of arm, and limited use of other arm... 120 k for soldier suffering PTSD. 85k for soldier suffering PTSD. as you can see they are all over the map, and each case is different.... It should be noted that a soldier can be reassesed after 5 years time if the condition can be proven to be worse a new settlement can be arranged...never heard of this being done yet, nor could i find any examples.... A large majority of the forces are not in favor of this new contract....and while it is nice to get a large chunk of money it is soon gone and the soldier left to cover himself... The old, more expensive system was based on the same sort of set up, only payment was monthly, tax free, and easier to get reassesed...this is the system that the NDP ( stoffer)was trying to return to with a private members bill....but is being side tracked by the cons....that being said it was not the cons that put this into place but the liberals....

I'd be curious to know which of those rights can be over riden in such cases as over all public saftey, or in other cases....And while these rights and freedoms we take for granted everyday are in place for a good reason, they also have limitations. One must be very careful when creating an atmosphere where the police are afraid to carry out thier duties for fear of being charged with something....And that is the entire piont of this exericise it's not about the right to protest it's about making the police look bad....to further limit thier powers , so that next time or protest these holigans will be able to bring mayhem to all our streets....with out fear of the law.... That being said if laws where broken then both sides should atone for them... Nice touch,mentioning "those that have fought for" but i'm also sure those fundemental rights where not meant to be twisted so they protect illigal activities....I'm sure if protestors had policed thier own and refused these back masked thugs form taking away from a lawful protest then things would have gone alot smoother, with alot less incidents...within our current form of government there are many ways to get your piont across to top level government staff without breaking the law or exposing yourself to the dangers of a riot situation.... But that would not get you the headlines these guys wanted to create....I wonder how many legimate groups with legimate causes actually got heard during these protests....has anyone heard anyones causes...instead this entire debate has been turned into "RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS" of those poor misunderstood protestors....who some how got cornered...and yelled at then arrested, then released after spending 24 hours in a crowded out door lock up.....If this is all we really have to complain about then we really need to take a look at what we have compare it to what other nations have and count our blessings....But then again we are a nation who has a melt down over some words in our national athem...

Your right whats all the fuss about, lets just hand over the islands the danes lay claim to, give up our off shore claims to any oil, or minerals under the sea bed...If you can not protect or occupy a chunk of land it is very difficult to have the world take you serious when you claim that territory as your own. Why stop at 1960's tech....why not bi planes with a good modern GPMG or man pack SAM sys.... If a ship required to be sunk in the NWP our F-18 would be up to the task.... This aircraft is a multi role fighter, that can clear the skys of any air threats and provide an excellent air to ground support platform.....red neck factor...i wonder if it would be a red neck factor if your daughter or son had to strap up in a 1960's fighter.....but hey it's money we are talking about here....and it over rides any talk about saving lives, or bringing back our troops home alive....

Holy shit, it's true....i should have got myself a tin foil hat while they where on sale....hey SB you don't have a spare do you.... I guess you forgot about "with out a cause" unlawful gatherings" is cause,....Due process, i believe most of them where release after 24 hours....last time i checked that was due process....And while the whole mess had some flaws , i think the police deserve a pat on the back....and i think we should be concentrating on this black hatters or shit disturbers and place the blame where it should go...instead of some " twilight theory"... Perhaps both of you guys should get a bigger tin foil hat, because the ones you have on now are way to tight...

Nice post Shwa. i think you've express it better than anyone else . A whole lot of fuss over nothing at all...

But what has it done lately.... Really you should ask that very same question to those that live in say Yugo, Bosina, serbia, Croatia , hey lets ask any one in Rwanda, or the other dozen or so african countries still bioling over in conflict....shit somolia comes to mind as well.... Lets talk about our nation, how many of our soldiers are on UN missions.....we may use the UN when it serves us, but can you honetly as we and all our people take it seriously...

Thats the piont is it not that the UN own watch dog is telling the UN council they are not following thier own standards in fact it clearly states that they seem to have a double standard when it comes to Israel....And if they are not following their own standards they are infact becoming irrelevent.... This has been discussed at length here before, not many nations around the world take the UN seriously for many of the reasons stated in this report. and while it looks good on paper, what real powers does the UN have...Its military adventures have really been a waste of time and effort, it can not enforce sanctions or levies it applies.....so really what does it do that makes it revelvent.

So this would not of happen in any other city, that those protestor would not have made arrangements to be in say any other Canadian city....So your right it would not of mattered in it was TO, ottawa, edmonton victoria, or fredricton NB....the same bears would have come to the party.... Besides there could have been a million reasons to have it in TO, after all the heads of states from dozens of countries where there, each with their own security issues, and solutions....plus a million other problems that could arise....But here we can only speculate on who, what where,and how come...TO....

So what do we do with the journalist below, he clearly states he was "peacefully protesting" yet goes out of his way to piont out he was a journalist with the dominon in montreal.... So did he come to cover the protests or act in them, ...you can't have it both ways here....your covering the news or your part of the news....kind of kills it for the rest of the journalist does it not....

Where did i say they are not entitled to protest, there is laws that limits where and when, and how you can protest....and like any other law it can, and was enforced....Keep in mind that these same people who are whinning where given serveral warnings to move on that they where involved in an unlawful gathering.... It's not about thier right to protest it is about the choices they made...to stay and break the law or move on... Does the right to protest include breaking the laws you don't like or fully understand....does it give you the right to stay and argue the piont with law officals....

Thats BS and you know it, TO had all the ifra structure that was required to hold this event, But nobody can take responsibilty for those punks actions excet themselfs....Harper did not pay them to damage the city.....that was a choice they made....and they should pay the cash to those store owners....

I think it's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee...all your rights and freedoms have limitations. All you've done since you have moved here to Canada is bitched and whined about how you where fooled into thinking Canada was better than mother China....And now spend every waking moment complaining and voicing that opinion....try that in China with out getting a vist from the government....] Besides i don't recall the protest being broken up with heavy armoured vehs and machine gun fire, can China say the same thing.... Strong words , but they lack any evidence, and yet the police quote this.... Shit even in most of the examples you quote from those mistreated people quote the same....the police asked them to leave....when they refused Bamm....look at that they arrested my ass.....so whats it take to get people to move on, to leave a written memo...a bull horn, a translator because perhaps they don't understand english.... The only charge that i can see that violated any rights is proabley this one if it can be proved.... This can only happen in exceptional cases, shit this even applies to us in combat...

UN watch dog accuses the UN council of not doing it's job, having double standards towards some nations. Is this another sign of the UN beoming irrelevant, or to politcalized for it's own good.... http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/peter_worthington/2010/06/25/14515926.html

Wonder if this thing happened in BC and those same protestors trashed your boat...would you be singing the same tune....or calling for more police action....these so called violent protestors are punks, out for a good time on our dime....what they need is a good crack in the skull with a baton....in fact they are begging for it....i say crack em, give a couple of weeks in the hospital to think about just how retarded their actions where....

I My linkhttp://thestar.blogs... Take a good look at the picture here , one you provided, and tell me what is in the hands of those civ's my guess would be batons....metal ones....tell me these guys are not violent..... My linkhttp://thestar.blogs... Try again, thats OPP, in an armoured police veh.... For the military to be called in to a riot things have to be very ,very bad...Police have full powers of arrest soldiers have very limited powers...we also carry auto matic rifles with baynots attached plsu great big armoured vehs.... ,No shields and no batons...the press would have a field day....Canadians would have heart attacks....the rioters would piss themselfs...Can't be having any of that....