Army Guy

I'm easy to confuse so bear with me, you agree here that both parties are responsiable for running up the debt, but at the end of your post you say one party was more fiscal responsiable than the other..... I think what you won't admit is that Mulrony government did sset in place the foundations to fiscal responsibilities and the liberals took it a step further.... the question should be why was Canada's economy doing quite well, and lets face it cuts were needed to some extent, but the liberals did pounce on some easy targets such as the PS pension, and UI surplues....easy money and can account for almost half of claimed fiscal debt reduction.... One more question while we are on target , what was their plan to recover from the cuts...i mean one can only cut for so long then one needs to reinvest into depts that were cut...i'm just curious...or perhaps that failing fell to the cons... SO we had all our eggs into one basket, does that sound like fiscal responsibilty to you, just a question. Having a huge debt load during a recession can't be a plus, i would think it would be a big minus, so really both parties failed to plan for the rainy day...such as a recession i mean they come and go, fairly often, don't you agree we should atleast have a plan.... Really how much revenue is generated off the GST, federal figures don't show it as a huge money maker, but i will agree with you it was not a smart move, I personal don't think it's a smart way to do bussiness, spending your way out of a recession....i mean since we all take ownership then we all can blame us for this current deficit....I do agree with you that this money could have been better spent, however when in a minority government you have alot of hands out...and alot of demands being made...by all parties....

Most of the NGO's have hundrds of postions open to do just that, i can send you contacts if you want to sign up....pay sucks, living conditions suck, get to see a whole new part of the world, see the effects of war, people for the most part are great,well except those damn taliban guys. everything is gravy until they drag your infidel ass off to some desert camp to make video's.

Based on what facts, here some facts for you, your contribution as a tax payer is 20 dollars a year...and after 2011 it will be reduced to 10 dollars a year...the lives you talk about are our lives, and for the most part Soldiers happen to think this is winnable and that they readily put thier lives on the line most soldiers and have spoken with their actions by returning to this very mission multi times...i guess you did'nt recieve that message...

Nicky i think your misunderstanding NORAD's role, it is not just for missiles and airspace, today it involves Martime and land contacts as well. The Canadian PM is the only person that can authorise movement of any assets not already under command and control of NORAD. And BC is right during the Cuban missle crisses our DND has dismissed orders from the PM to stand down, that being said we were at the brink of an all out Nuke War,and DND's actions at the time proved right... As for splashing a nuk armed missle over the Canadian north that part is true, but then again lets wiegh the options, over the Canadian north barely poplulated, or south with is populated....i mean come on, do we really have to think about that one.... Besides both governments have a standing agreement already in regards to incoming mis strikes. Canadian PM will be notified but does not have to auth. besides we did not agree to the free mis defense project we opted out....

Thanks for confirming that our debt load is not 750. bil, Thats not what the liberals or Cons think. For that matter anyone who has gone in to occupy or conquor the region has had thier asses handed to them...Thank god we are not doing any of that.

First off, Canada is NOT running a 750 Bil debt load, your facts are wrong way wrong......Second there is not going to be any addtional debt load to Canada the Mission will and always has come out of the DND budget....Thats right out of the already existing DND budget...our current mission cost DND 1 bil a year, this mission will cost 1/2 of that minus the intial 85 mil for start up costs...So tech DND will end up with an addtional 500 mil in it's budget when our mission in the south comes to a close. The remaining 300 mil is for rebuilding projects, you know the ones Canadians have always wanted that is new money, and that investment will be coming out another dept.... It's not coming back to Canada in the sense your talking about, Stop and think about this just for a second, we as a nation have so much to offer, we have funding, expertise in every area, equipment , soldiers, even with a 500 bil deficit,you can't really tell me we can't afford it...Or is it really all about the money, we have it and screw the rest of the world.. 10 Years down the road NATO will be long gone, and Afghan as a nation will have to stand up on her own, that is the benifit to our nation we would have assisted in another small nation in this huge world to become a better place. The US is paying for most of it, once again your lack of research astounds me, why don't you tell us all how much the US spends on this mission....better yet tell us how much they spend on the Combat side, the rebuilding side and the governmental side... You did decide when you placed your vote...you did vote right....besides your not going to have any addtional tax load because of this mission it is coming out of DNDN existing budget..... Because the mission is not over, but who cares you say, i and the other 90,000 soldiers care, it was our blood sweat and tears that was invested....and we pay taxes as well, thats right you do the math....So lets look at the math DND pays for the mission, with exception of the funding for rebuilding projects.....in this case 1 Bil, 90,000 soldiers pay taxes that pretty much covers the cost of the mission, It's the soldier that pay the blood and sweat to carry out the mission....so the Average Canadian pays what you said 20 million tax payers ( your figures) pay lets say 400,000,000 mil to make up the difference that the soldiers could not pay out, thats 20 dollars each not 200.00 but 20 bucks, tell you what send me your address and i'll send you your 20 bucks, because i would hate the thought of one Canadian that could not afford or did not want to waste 20 bucks trying to give something to another nation something we take advantage of every day called freedom.... Have you been there ? have you done any research at all My first tour in Afghan our first Tic was at the front gate....we did not have to leave the compaound to engage the enemy....that base at that time had over 25,000 troops in it..... Today there are open markets , schools with kids in them, universities, cell phones, computers, stores and shops, people walking the streets, airports running, Dams providing power, new highways, loaded with traffic, Talk to the people.... Yes people are dieing it's a f***ing war, level of violence is up, Drugs are not the priority but production is not up...in fact NATO destroys more crops now than it ever has....And the Taliban is talking to the Afghan government What good is happening , all you have to do is look, there is peace in alot more towns and cities, while it may not be peace that Canadians know, to them it's peace....And Canada has played a small part in bringing that to them....becuase with out our small contribution those Taliban bastards would still be in power, free to terrorize everyone and anyone, and while it might not mean anything to you, i've seen first hand thier exploits, the terror they bring, and it means alot to me, so much so i've risked my life on 3 separate 6 month tours....while it has cost you what 20 bucks a year....and your still whinning... No this is Bullshit....just plain Bullshit.....

You are making this shit up you hav'nt even read your own source....It would cost DND 500 mil plus an addtional 85 mil for start up costs....the other 300 mil was for rebuilding projects which are government funded.....I guess you'll have to redo your figures....

Are you unemployed, because i have a problem with self claimed teachers pulling facts out of thier asses....and i can't believe that a school board would put up with it...hence the question. Your missing half the facts , it seems like your making up the other half, as for the cost perhaps you should check out how much it cost to put one Canadian soldier through basic training, then onto basic trades training.....This is not cooking class sally, this is classes on how to use todays wpns to kill our enemies....and it cost money lots of money....

No thats not the piont, I all my posts i have clearly shown that both parties are equally responsiable for running up the debt, I also clearly shown it was all parties that had a hand in spending the over 100 bil in recession spending.... As for the budget surpluses well i clearly showed that it was a combined effort, Cons policys and programs that were set up prior to leaving, Yes the liberals did twqeak them carry them alittle bit further but without one or the other there would be no surplueses we had seen. So tech it was not all the liberals doing which created the surplueses. To Sum up both parties put us in a mess, and both parties had a role to play in the recovery...and it was all parties that have us in the current bind... Not so fast, By signing the Free Trade Agreement and by launching NAFTA, the Conservatives subjected our aging industries to competition from the American south and Mexico, and bankruptcies bloomed. A lot of pain can be laid at the Conservatives' door, but it can be argued that a lot of these losses would have occurred anyway, if perhaps over a longer period of time. On the other hand, Canada's information economy would have had less access to the international market and this sector wouldn't have been so prosperous through the 1990s. Canada did very well in the information economy and while it may not have shown in directly in the GDP figures, Wages where higher, the stock market took way off, yes many lost thier shirts, but more made fists full of cash in the right investments, if you look at the whole picture houseing starts , basic wages it all spells out the money is flowing, for most people.... 5 bil in todays world is peanuts and you know that, crap we spent a bil on the games a bil on the summit, 5 bil perhaps on reconstruction of the parliment. Actually if you look at the posts they are all defending thier parties, everyones cock is in thier hands proving thier's is bigger, all i was trying to do was get everyone to put them back in their pants and agree, to that very thing both parties are equally responsiable....

The PM would be made aware as the second in command has always been a Canadian officer, Im sure the PM would have a word if it involved Canadian waters, airspace, or assets.

I already explain this just up the page, The liberals party bringing about a great surplus is partially a myth, if you look at the programs that the Cons brought in before leaving office, you'll see that all the liberals had to do was keep from spending , everything else was already in play...all they had to do was sit and wait, make a few adjustments take some existing programs and carry them even further.... Actually both parties spent almost equal, keeping in mind the liberals were in power that much longer... by what 5 bil thats huge.....get the rope... restoring some of the depts that needed it...But we could piss into the wind all day....my party is bigger than your party...in the End both parties are responsiable for our record debt today, due to poor spending practices, and the last couple years, all parties including the NDP are responsiable for spending to get out of the recession....each had a role to play in spneding that 100 bil we are looking at now..... But we can't have a concenus in Canadian polictics we must find someone to blame this on...because that is the Canadian thing to do....I'd like to fire the whole bunch of them...and start over...

You think lockheed is giving away free jets and Canada should get in on the deal ? Somebody is paying for them, ask Uncle Sam why he is giving Israel jets....Then ask why Canada is paying for theirs ? Maybe they will ask you why the US pays for 90 % of the costs for Norad, while Canada pays only 10 %...

Correct me if i'm wrong here Cretien / martin was in power from 1993 until 2006, that being said it took the liberals until 1998 to run a surplus. thats 5 years of running deficits.

Lets not forget that both parties are responsiable for the entire debt, thats right the liberals and the conservatives both parties ran up our debt like a coal miner in a whore house....They are both to blame....as for pinning the medal of deficit redution on the liberals only that is a myth, take a look at the programs that the Cons put in place before leaving office, so one can hardly just pin that on the liberals.... As for the huge deficit we now face, we can't blame that on Harper alone either...all the parties wanted to spend our way out of the recession....Yes Liberals , cons, and NDP....we all wanted to ride the gravy train, spend spend spend was shouted from the roof tops in parliment each party had their own agenda but all of them included spending huge amounts....so lets grow up, suck back and re load...can we really blame this on one party alone i don't think so....

Really, how many terrorist attacks have been directed towards civilian targets, how many were done by westerners, and how many down by Muslims

William: WOW, what a rant, more like a whine, And here i thought you were a teacher and yet you've done no research into the so called problem or even looked at the big picture. All you can see is Israel is getting thier aircraft for cheaper, so you start pionting fingers at what you don't understand kicking your feet and raising a shit storm.... You even go as far as saying Canada is no less a terror target than Israel, now that is just talking out your ass, perhaps you can show us a valid quote for that one....stats showing both Nations have the same terror problems.. i take it you have not been to Israel, walked the streets, gone to the markets, or to gone to the airport....and compared the two countries, like i said before out your ass. How we go from talking about being treated unfairly in the F-35 deal to rape and murders is beyond me, niether topics are even close....but once again you failed to do your research, and start pulling things out of your ass. You even include a letter from Capt Goddard nice touch, but lets get some of the facts straight, first of it's not a Canadian base, it's a NATO base which holds 2500 Canadian soldiers, and 25,000 other NATO soldiers. And while sexual harrasment even Rape were evident in Camp, lets put that in context shall we , first off NO pers where allowed to roam the camp unarmed, every soldier had to have a wpn on them at all times, including when you went to eat, shower, or slept....so everyone was armed, well armed....next policy was for Canadian soldiers to travel in groups of 2 or more, and for the most part females were escorted, or also ttraveled in groups, these females are soldiers, they have the same training as thier male counter parts, corner them in a dark ally and you'll get your balls handed to you...Thier soldiers not soccer moms at the mall. and while all this was going on not one case had been report of any Canadian soldier being a victim or party in any harrasment, or rape... Was she concerned Yes she was, and she vented that through her letters, I'm not trying to down play her fears, and am lucky i'm a guy and did not have that extra worry to wiegh on me when we all had enough to think about out side the wire. But we were all Canadian soldiers and if something had happen to one of our own, i pity the poor bastard who had done it, as his head would have been on a pole for all to see....I think that all the other Contingents knew we could handle ourselfs on the battle field and kept clear of any Canadians.... We don't want your condolences we want you to get your facts straight.

Really, in 1998 our deficit had risen to it's highest 563 Bil, , during the next 10 years it had shrunk to 458 Bil. in 2008/09 it grew 5.8, then 2009/10 by 55.4 bil and this year it is expected to grow another 45.4 bil....and expected to grow until 2014 And while your tech right during those 10 years we were not at record levels, we were still 458 bil in debt, and while we were more fiscal responsiable with our money we did not stop large capital spending.

In Afghan it's the same thing training is conducted in a live combat operation. in other words there is no difference. Actually the Afghan army wanted to leave him die, a painful death...they refused to waste a bullet, but thats the hatred between them. As for winning hearts and minds, first you have to understand the people first, and while we the soldiers get that, it's definatly lacking in those that have to explain this war....to joe public. and while it does play an important role, it's not the primary mission, killing bad guys is, and getting your boys back home alive... Even with all the media coverage of Afghan , the population of Canada still has little to no idea what it is like in combat and of the horror's of war, And for the most part that is a good thing, on the flip side it means you don't understand what it is like, and continue to hold us to the same standards we have in Canada....I'm not condoning out right murder,or lawless troops running around the country killing everything. because that is not us it's not the Canadian army.... This is the first time in our history that someone has been tried for murder of a wounded prisoner. i hope we are not that gulliable to think this is the first time it has happend, history is full of examples... Mission comes first before anyone or any life...i know that is hard to understand, but it is reality in combat. A medivac mission would have drawn bad guys out of the wood work, like ants to a picnik...and posed a greater danger to an inexperienced afghan unit... Medi vacs can be any where from 30 mins to 2 hours, depending on where they are at the time , the priority of the wounded person ( everone is assigned a priority number according to thier wounds), keep in mind medi vac units serve an entire AO, and are not limitless in numbers, these guys are normally in the air most of the time....Having a couple of hours to live is pressing it, remember he had one leg blown of even when tied off you have maybe 45 mins max thats with an iv, it is your femoural arty we are talking about, if not treated you could bleed out in a few minutes. plus he had massive internal injuries, 30 mm does that , infact i don't know of anyone surviving a 30 mm hit ever ...But anything is possiable.

there is another side of the coin as well, soldiers quickly learn of the death and destrution of war, the see pain every day, they inflict it and are inflicted with it. Most will make peace with death and pain, and make pacts with each other that someone will end thier pain it's not as selfish as they can't stand to see pain and suffer, but rather they understand it and considered it human to end it...as they would expect someone to end it for them, because thier afraid of it, and don't want to suffer through it..

Here is some Quotes from the book "National Defence Headquaters: Center for Decision, by Douglas Bland. Chap 2 Basic concepts. Responsibilty for preparing defence policy and using the armed forces to provide a reasonable assurance of National defence is delegated by the people of Canada to the Governing party. However the delegation of these responsibilities to the government of the day is limited. No government has unrestricted power over the CF. Rather Caanda's constitutional arrangements and laws provide a set of checks and balences meant to control the authority of the government, CF and civil bureaucracies. In effect the formulation of defense policy and the implementation and administration of that policy are shared by the Govern General, PM, MDND, and the CDS, and a minor role to the Deputy MDND. The concept of shared responsiablity is one source of those checks and balances laid out in the NDA. And decreases the risk if slight of a majority party ordering the Military to do something that is partisan, If the CDS was under direct control of the government he would have to follow the partisan order or break the law. Therefore under the NDA (National Defense Act)The military falls under the GG, which falls under the Queen. and provides the break needed. Another break is the only person allowed to give direct orders to the Military is the CDS. meaning any orders must come out of that office, or are invalid. You really need to read the entire NDA, as it lays out who can do what and when , including ordering our country to war.

I know this is probably not the place for this, but what the heck....I had the honor of parading with the 2 RCR Bn in Fredricton NB this Nov 11. Coming from Ont and doing parades in Ottawa i was actually surprised at the turn out of so many of the local citizens , and how well we were recieved and treated. I just wanted to take some time and say thanks to Fredricton you guys rock. After a few beers in Fredicton some of us were taken down by van to a small town of Utopia N.B, and thier local legion,and for such a small town, in the middle of no wheres they knew how to put on a spread, we had arrived well after the Parade, and were treated like royality .Within thier legion was a wall of rememberance that i've never seen the likes before , each soldier that had been killed in Afgan had a large picture and bio posted , someone had taken alot of time and research to get it right, anyways i like to thank thier legion pres Roland Chater for the wall, and for the invite...Thanks for not forgetting, thanks for your support, and thanks for the invite. I'm sure this was the scene from all across Canada, and as a soldier i asy thanks, you guys make it easy to serve the best country in the world.

Since 1975 our deficit has been at record levels steadily climbing until it's record level today. The piont being since 1975 we have been having record levels of deficit, and rarely has that been a show stopper for any major spending.

The Lav-H is a real product, introduced as a concept veh by General Dynamics Land Systems- Canada,one in which DND was looking at purchasing. It was this portion of the project that was canceled. CASR The Upgrade and LAV -H are not the same vehs, and while they may have simlarities the LAV -H is the better veh by far. The CCV porject although very similar to the LAV project is a project on it's own. The Close Combat Vehicle Project is DND's attempt to procure a new armoured vehicle type capable of keeping pace with planned Leopard 2A4/'6s of the Tank Replacement Program ( TRP ). What you meant to say was the 5 Bil funding was for 3 separate projects, Lav upgrade , the CCV project and the TAPV which is really another 2 projects jamed together (light armoured recce veh or Coyote replacement) and the (armoured patrol veh to replace the RG -31. Update: 09 July 2009 – as a part of a $5B announcement for LAV III upgrades and new armoured vehicle purchases, 200 TAPV-Recce are to be bought to replace Coyotes. It's not clear whether the TAPV-Recce (part of a larger order of 500 TAPV) elipses the old LARV Project. "Your right" it was the Military, according to a AOG report it states "due in part to poor decision making within DND" the number was cut, Since the orginal contract, the orginal intent was to have Chinnoks based in 3 locations through out Canada, but that has since changed and now only one location will get all the chinnoks. No it's a governments decision, 5 Bil was all they alotted for the new Armoured vehs, DND had to work within that , hence why the LAV-H buy was cancelled, the TAPV porject was a combination of 2 projects, and to fullfill them over 700 vehs were required, because the funding is not available those projects were pared down, why is that so hard to see. The CCV project when orginally announced was to outfit the Western Brigade (heavy Brig)complete with CCV, plus give each other Inf BN one companies worth of heavy fighting vehs. That porject has been changed now only selceted Bn's will get the CCV and the Western Brig will have thier numbers crunched. So how can you say the numbers were not slashed...The main reason these numbers were so high in the first place was to ensure each of the Inf Bn's , and other users of the LAV would have the vehs they needed to operate with, you do the numbers there are 9 INF BN's currently plus well over 100 LAV's assigned to other Combat arms users...each INf BN's requires over 60 Lav's for 3 Companies worth of vehs, these numbers do not include any LAV's currently in Afghan or what is in War reserve, ...there are Inf Bn's with no LAV's at all, and the avg BN has only one companies worth....Hence why they need the additional vehs to make up the shortages. The orginal concept of the JSS was a combination of serveral ships, LPD, and AOR, that not cutting the taskings thats combining 2 different ships into one to save money...The Navy has said on serveral occasions this is not what they wanted, but rather a AOR replacement...And your right Industry has already said it could not build a ship with DND's specs for the 2.6 Bil mentioned... You had mentioned Currency offsetting, but it's not going to make up for the difference in cost so one ship was dropped, which means it was slashed from the orginal contract. And now that industry has said they could not build them for the 2.6 bil, there has been talk of cutting it to one ship.

Your right, we were governed by Canadians, But our history is full of examples of those very Canadians having strong ties to the Crown, and British government, All they had to do was ask and they knew we would follow, Boar war adn WWI are prime examples....in fact they did not have to ask English Canada jumped at the chance to serve Britian. We as a nation were still very dependant on Britain, our foreign policy as you mentioned was pretty much directed by Britian, along with our small professional military forces which were commanded by British Generals. In there eyes we were still a colony, regardless of what independence we thought we had... Your right our dollar back then was a Canadian concept, but even today, as most British Colonies it still reflects our British history, as in it is laced with pictures of the British Monarchy, still showing they have influence in our Canadian culture. My link Not according to the above source , and perhaps i'm reading it wrong, But it was British legislative Assembly that voted in an amount of 75,000 British pounds for the construction of the parliament house, one would assume that they also had a say in how the money was spent, and it was them that placed Mr Fuller to oversee the project. So my post of the Queen had chosen was wrong, my bad...but was not that far off. The Canadian side of the house did offer a 1000 dollars for the best design, and it was them that picked the contractors... And while many of those Canadians where EX pat British citizens, which still to a great extent consider Britain the mother land , how could we not say that Britian did not have an influence over our nation, because we had at the time a pice of paper saying we were Canadians, all they had to do was ask , infact in alot of cases they did not have to ask but Canadians ran to Britian and Asked what can we do...Such as the Boar war and WWI...It was a different time, and although they were Canadians they were British first...like you said we did not have control over our foeeign policy until after the 20's, our Military forces commanded by British generals, there must have been a tremedous British influence, there.... I did say that yes, i like some others here think 5 Bil dollars for the entire project is alot, even when we are talking about rebuilding these strutures to todays codes and standards, I used the World trade buildings as an example of what 5 bil gets you...and these new buildings are very impressive. to clearly show the differences, one one hand we get these historical buildings brought up to todays code, on the other hand the sky is the limit, which could reflect Canada today... If they where in the shape ours are today, i would say that is an option....

And yet we were still very much under British rule until the just after the 1920's, and even today we still base most of our government type, policies, traditions,money, commander and chief etc etc under the British system, they still have influence over our nation, one way or the other. the orginal Center block was destroyed by fire , it was completed at the same time as the rest of the buildings. And yet the British still had great influence over our nation. Are you saying that those buildings do not reflect British designs of the times, if not british then what, I mean it was the Queen herself you chose Ottawa as the Capitol, and the site for parliment , and chose the architects how much more influence can you have.....are they french design, italian what ?. Are you saying that Britain did not have a major influence for a major portion of our history? And that influence is not part of our colonialism....Shit No it's not , but the new trade center is a powerful reminder and image to not only the American people but to the world. I was using this as an example of just what 5 BIL could build.