Army Guy

This year will mark my 30 th year in the military, over those years i've been to alot of the worlds war zones, been exposed to dozens if not hundrds of cultures,at thier worst and best... a while i may of not liked all the individuals i've met, i can't fathom holding the entire culture or race in disdane because of a few individuals i've meet, or seen, or thier querky habits.. And yes while i may have had no alternative at the time, i don't think you can nail it down to culture being resposable for my actions, but rather circumstances...I'm sure that the wealthy Indians do not wipe with skin , but some form of wipes, therefore that in itself blows a hole in your theory, and you can't pin it on culture or race, but rather circumstance be it lack of cash, availablity of product, the whole gambit... Another example within the military itself there are dozens of races, some new to our country most born here over the generations, and while they are visually different, they have picked up many of of cultures traits, for instance they do wipe with paper, watch hockey, football, thier parenting skills are very similar, and they share the same values as i do, and yes they have kept some of their old culutre traditions alive, nothing that really does not conform with ours...in fact many are very welcomed within our culture, such as their traditional foods, i mean really pizza, chinese, Italian, now as much part of our culture as it is theirs... like i somewhat touched above , your theory is flawed. A prime example would be African Americans born here in Canada, have generations of family that have lived here in Canada , and yet they share most of the same culture as i do, and yet the only difference between us is race...That and the fact is they've been forced to justify somehow that they are Canadian, and because i'm white i've never had to do that justify anything... I Guess my piont is ....When you decide to serve this Nation you must be prepared to serve all of it's races and cultures that reside within it. you must also be prepare to serve along side all the races and cultures without conflict or second guessing yourself. After all you are trusting your very life and existance to the soldier next to you, as he is expecting the same from you...and if race comes into the situation, you'll have problems...major problems...the kind that will get you killed... You must also prepare yourself to serve and protect other races and cultures in other nations without bias or conflict such as our current mission to Afghan....

Like i said before Russia can do this training any where all one has to do is check the map and see how large russia is, so why risk provoking North America...Our Navy does do long range exericise because of our defense agreements we have enter in to, any training any military does it does it for a reason, in this case it's to provoke a response. If it was only that easy, then i guess it's time to upgrade to the F-35 then since our current F-18 force is ineffective... Does'nt confirm anything, except that any and all such flights are intercepted.... Would you be poking a grizzly bear in the eye with a stick if you knew it would not attack.... I presonally don't know what they have on board....Can't say for sure, i bet they are not full of candy and teddy bears.... You keep saying they are old, so is the herc design, but they have many newer versions flying just becuase they have props does not make they useless...."Training", you train as you fight...and you fight as you train.... Thats not what DND said it said these types of missions are routine....it did not say they are not a threat.... It's an anti terrorist Ex , handing over a target at the edge of thier airspace....not a big deal....when was the last time NATO ground troops exericised along side of their Russian comrads....or NATO ships EX along side Russian....does not happen all to often, Yes we have been invited to observe an exericise, but very rarely do work and share info on how we work , share our tactics...despite our cooperation Russia is not listed on the friendly list....

Just to clarify does that mean anyone from these countries or just the white guys....Are jewish Germans welcome, what about black Irsih or Hispanic french.... Or is it just those cultures that have disgusting habits that are not welcomed....just curious i wonder if indian born Canadians wipe with paper or skin....actually come to think of it forget i asked the question, as i don't want to be pigion holed as one of those people.....as i've wiped my ass with leaves,tree bark,cardboard,news paper, Cdn Tire catologue ( i know that was just unpatriotic,but i was running out of socks), towel, my t-shirt sleeves, even a sock once or twice, would of tried a bunney because it was rumoured shit don't stick to their fur....but those bastards are to fast, and with your pants around your knees forget it....

Most of their case is around the fact that Omar had been tortured, So when the defense does not mention anything about torture would it not strike you as funney.....The judge is responsable to ensure the defence is doing everything they can to defend their client, and if it becomes apparent they are not he can step in..also part of his duties.

I can not speak for how the US military courts work, but it is very rare that a Canadian military court tries civilians...unless they have commited an offensive in a war zone, or theatre of operations...But there is public oversight and they are tried with all the Canadian laws as well they may be subject to Canadian military laws as well. While it is true the evidentiary rules are different, the defendent may ask for time to study or refrute any edvidence that is brought to bear.. That being said the same evidence rules do not transfer to a war zone....for example here in Canada the crime scence is sealed of until the police or investagators are finshed with it....in a war zone once the battle is finished thats it time to move on....any evidence is either trampled through by troops doing their reorg...or the field is left to be scavenged by civilians.... And if any crime did happen it is normally not actioned until the unit is pulled from the line...or finished with the mission....in some cases this could take weeks....and in many cases if serious enough another mission would be mounted into the area to try and recover any evidence, however if the threat is to large they will wait until the threat levels decrease. My piont is you will never get the same level of collection of evidence as you do here in Canada....

Unable to spell , thanks for picking that out... How are they morally unsound, they are paid "very well i might add, to provide a product, to those that in this enviroment need it..one that is not available to them through regular ground forces.... As for putting our soldiers at risk, there are times when they have put our lives in greater danger while they provide that service, they're allegiance is not to a flag or the mission but to thier client ....but then again i'm sure we have lite them up on serveral occasions as well...I don't think the solution is to kick them out but to restrict there ROE, or provide better protection to most of thier clients... Omar was captured by fluke, nothing more, normally they prefer to die in battle not very often they find alive one....that and NATO perfers to use fire power to smoke them rather than risk soldiers to close with and destroy them...currently there are dozens of Canadian citizens fighting for the Taliban, and much more US citizens ever ask yourself why we have not captured another one.

Thats how you explain it by putting your head in the sand and convince your self there is nothing to these flights...with the size of Russia why can't these supposed "training flights be held well within Russian airspace"...why risk provoking anything, with North America..or maybe there is more to it..maybe they are testing our response time, tracking where we refuel, which routes our fighters take, do we scramble any other support aircraft, what ground support stations are active during the interception.... This info would be why, they would risk flying so close to our air space, it's this info that would be crictical in event of a real attack...As for using the bears to accomplish this, can you imigine the panick that 2 or more jet powered TU 160 flew the same route in a third of the time...shit our airforce would blow a gasket, along with most of NORAD...i think you'd find more than just 2 F-18 doing the interception.... Your pretty confident that the US would use Nuk wpns to defend our northern areas.... conventional forces perhaps, but stepping it up to nuk wpns....somehow i don't think so.... not for some ice, and resources not available all year round....

You should be proud of effecting change, regardless of just how small it truely is...you've brow beat someone into submission, jbg willingness to conform to your petty PC rules...even after he explained to you the true meaning behind his signature statement....and you have said nothing about the large turds sitting in front of your face, which reaks of ultimate racism....Germany's SS were and still are today the leaders of hate and racist bullshit being spread around the world. SO huray for your victory , just don't slip on the huge pile of shit when you leave..... I've also changed my signature block, to reflect jbgs old signature...

How does the military operate on a different level of justice ? and why is it a sham ? because it is not going your way ? Did they not give Omar a chance to speak, did the Judge not encougage him to speak for himself...and yet he said nothing, refused to take the stand, refuse to make his accusation of torture in court....the defense has not even proven with out a doubt he was tortured....so how can you conclude it has already made a decision?

I agree with 100 % with Morris, i find nothing wrong with Jbg signature...And it's this liberal polictical correctness that i object to and all the presure that comes with it to conform to some liberals vision on how we should all be the same and just get along.....That being said there is going to be a time when we should challenge a person to Validate what they have said or written...Jbg is not one of them.... I think if you have the balls to write crap on your signature block such our new german right winger did then he should expect to be challenged on it....And while there is nothing wrong with the words themselfs written in the signature block ,it is who has written them that is offensive,and the double meaning they have ....I think all will agree that the Actions of the Waffen SS and this general in question are the exact opposite of what is written....like he was trying to con someone into thinking that "Killing millions of the Unwanted" was all part of re-discovering the creative values of his own race....man did they ever do that....

I'd be curious if the average American actually gives a rats ass about Khadr.

Dre: Very impressive list, a while true Canada has racked up a very impressive record of "UN misions" from 1947 until approx 1995 and for good reason, the entire peace keeping concept was a Canadian invention, and we should have been in the lead, it was our concept...but like everything it dies, or losses it's ability to control waring factions....this came to a head well before 1995 , but when the UN first deployed to the former Yugo, this conflict really showed the world how much the UN had become irrelvent in it's abilites to control any conflict or situation... Your list gets some what shorter when you take out the deployments that are not UN related, deployments of our Dart team for example are not UN driven, but rather our countries direct contribution to a diaster or similar event. These missions are under direct control by Ottawa and NDHQ, not the UN. Nato lead missions, are also not under UN control, but rather under NATO's command and Ottawa's. While they may be blessed by the UN or even authorized by the UN the UN does not control that mission... Infact it is the entire reason NATO started taking over these missions, the UN peace keeping force was no longer effective, to many rules, to many restrictions it was in fact high ranking civilians controling military type operations..an accident waiting to happen, and that happen in Yugo when that mission turned into a train wreck very quickly. International missions, are also not UN type missions, these missions are Ottawa deciding to deploy troops on it's own political purposes... So once you subtract all the above missions, what is left...how many troops has Canada deployed on UN missions, since 1995 or the last 15 years is approx 5671 soldiers, thats works out on average 378 pers a year. it seems our priorities are else where... For a nation that are suppose to be strong supporters of the UN, the numbers really tell another story...that story tells an even bigger tale if you compare the number of troops deployed on NATO lead missions...And for the nation that invented the peace keeping concept it must also say something about how the UN is regarded in Ottawa... You use the example of the Iraqi invasion to make your piont, when really having NO UN justifaction was not the real reason we did not deploy...i think other factors over shadowed the UN excuse....Our armed forces where not equiped for high intensity warfare, even with a third world country, and our forces would have been more of a hinderence than an asset...stack all that on top of our low numbers of combat soldiers, cost of new or replacement equipment lost in battle, or what was needed to upgrade before deploying...that and the Afghan commitment was looking better and cheaper every day....not to mention the liberals knew high cas in this war would sink them in the polls....No the UN may of been the excuse but the real reason was far for it..

So what is your solution ? If we are not sitting down at lunch and discussing anything with them, what is left, how do you deal with a radical group, who views not just the US but the entire western civilization as nothing more than animals to be killed as they see fit.

Had the ruling gone in Omars favour would your opinion have changed that the trail was fair ? It's a joke because it's a military trail, with military judges and Military lawyers ? Correct me if i'm wrong but they are binded by the same laws as thier civilian counter parts unless you can prove other wise, so why do you have such an unbais opinion. Create a work around,thats funney.... Omars defense team failed to prove that he was in fact tortured, in fact Omar decided not to take the stand to defned himself....so failing to prove there was torture your entire case or piont that he was, falls apart does it not.... Who cares what Khadr wants....He would not be in this trial had his actions not steered him in this direction....after all it's not like he stole some candy at the local corner store...he was part of a terrorist group that is using terror as a wpn again'st civilians around the globe...and he has taken an active role in thier cause...and now he is going to be held accountable for those actions.... Perhaps you missed the piont that this is one of the groups our nation is currently at war with..one of the groups that sends our young soldiers on that long trip down the Hyway of hero's....

How so, there was so many anvenues he could have persued, such as followed his fathers footsteps and instead of actual combat concentrated on raisung funds, purchaseing wpns as his older brother and sister did etc....and yet he wanted to kill infidels and become a Martyr for the cause, to him and his culture this was something normal, and what he inspired to do... So he very well knew the consquences of combat, and he made that choice...in fact it was his mother that tried to force them into becoming suicide bombers, something him and his brothers refused to do, but rather chose to take thier chances in combat...

bjre: I don't think anyone one here will deny Canada does have some problems and warts, i think you over play those problems and warts because your unhappy that reality did not live up to your vision of paridise when you first arrived to our nation.. And yet you still remain here instead of returning back to the mother country of China,Why is that ? is that because mother China has also been tainted by the western culture, and China is not worth the trip back, leaving you with just memories of the good old days of Mao...

What a load of crap.....How can a person be held accountable for their actions but not take respnsibility for them....That is a liberal cop out, the devil made me do it sort of thing , Yes his mother and father did provide an enviroment in which such acts where noraml and expected, but they where not there at the time he pulled the pin or trigger and while they may of been guilty of being poor parents when compared to western standards, his actions where his and his alone....this crap about my father beat me , i had a poor childhood is just excuses....And if it held any water why has there been no action taken again'st his mother.... Not to mention this can hardly be set at the feet of our nation, as he was only here for a fraction of his life...

Thats not my quote, I said he he should be held accountable for his actions ....And like it or not , 15 year olds here in Canada are held responsable for thier actions in our courts...and depending on the charges are treated as adults...nobody gets a free pass so why should Omar ? It is not evil in the culture he was raised in , but the norm, so why does Omar deserve a free ticket, to be wrapped in a blanket and breast fed by our nation, because of his age, lets Wake TFU, do other Canadian citizens get a free ticket at age 15...so why does Omar deserve this speacial treatment. In fact if it concerns you so much why have you not started something to hold his mother and family responable , to be charged with child abuse at the very min.....and deport her ass back to native country.... Canadians have not fallen at all, this 15 year old was involved with and supporting the enemy in an armed conflict with our nation.... some pretty serious shit....and you want us to forgive and forget, let him and his happy clan live next door, while continuely spewing their haterd for me and Canadian values and culture...no thanks...maybe it's time someone spoke up and just said pack your bags, heres your ticket welcome to the refugee camps in Afghanistan....

Not punish them for actions of their parents....although i'm all for bringing in Mom and stringing her up by "well you know" What i said is punishing Omar for actions he commited... It's not even close...if your dad was a serial killer, and you as a 15 year old child took up being a serial killer should you get a free ticket because his dad was a retard....or should he face the courts...there is no free rides, he should face the courts for any and all laws he has broken. NO the message is clear, break the law and you will be charged and face the courts....and we don't want to hear about your sad stories about how your dad was a terrorist, your mom was a religious fanitic....your whole family is twisted.... Is it mean, my government say's it OK to shoot the likes of Omar on a regular basis, there is no debate on "well his upbringing was not good", his dad was an ass, his mom, well thats another story.....instead you apply 3.5 lbs presure on the trigger and it's done...and no one says a damn word....the story stops in some isolated patch of Afghan.... Now we travel back to Canada and all of a sudden he becomes a real person , that we should care about....he is a Canadian citzen you animal, how could you shoot him, he's just a boy.....A piece of paper does not make you Canadian ....to me he will always be a terrorist...one who has engaged coalition troops in combat....nothing more...

I'm actually surprised that you have not twisted this in to some evil act laided out by the Great satan for our western enjoyment. Instead you've laided it at your gods feet, praising him for punishing the people of Pakistan , giving him credit for powers that he does not have. One could ask why he does not use these great powers you acredit him of having to help the Muslim people in their struggles. Maybe he is not as powerful as say the great satan, or the cristian and jewish god. or perhaps it is just that he is pissed at his Muslim followers for some reason...Maybe the Muslim nations should ponder that for awhile.... Many Nations have taken action against your muslim brothers in the Swat Valley region, In including ours which begs the question once again why have they not been punished...instead your god has seen to NATO and pakistans victories over and over again....If this is the case perhaps your self acclaimed "Gods warriors" are impotant, or being punished what ever the case they have been reduced to live with the goats, hide like rats in the caves within the mountains....coming out only at night to terrorise they're own people with murder and threats...Gods warriors indeed... Funney you mention the murderous Zionist regime, when you claim to live within it's borders , living off the very fat you so hate, makes me rethink your actions and what you are doing so proudly to resist the temptations of the west and Zionist movement....other than preach your hate on a western web site such as this...No sir i've seen what you and your ilk are capable of in Afghanistan, the terror and death they sow all in the name of their religion...and trust me when i say it is extremist views such as yours that will keep me in uniform for a long time to come.... Perhaps when you finally grow up to be a full blown terrorist,we will share a tea together in the mountains of Afghanistan, or the Swat Vally and trade stories or perhaps some bullets.

I think we all know by now that most children are influenced alot by adult contact though out their young lives. We as parents pray to the gods that we have given them the tools and knowledge to make the best possiable choices...regardless of what they have been taught or influenced within the home or aquaintainces the outside world still needs to hold them accountable for their actions.... Just because dad was a serial killer does not mean it's ok to carry on the family tradition,according to western standards....But he was not raised by western standards, infact he was raised by a twisted religious standard in which killing infidels was not only OK but expected...And at the time and place of afghanistan this was the norm....Perhaps the west needs to send a message. In this case we making excuses up for him as we do for other criminals, his dad beat him , he was molested when he was a child, he was poor, his dad was a terrorist, etc, etc, and as terible as those events were, we as a nation still need to hold that him responsable for their actions....Murder is murder. We also need to stop holding him to Canadian standards, he is Canadian in passport only, he has no Canadian values, morals, in fact has grew up hating every thing our culture stands for....but that same Canadian culture he hates so much does offer him freedom, freedom from the harsh laws he help install, freedom to from being held responsable for his actions, freedom from ever having to work for a living, freedom to live off the very systems fat he faught so hard to destroy..... And while Omar may of been a victim of circumstances, he still needs to face the piper for what he has done. a mssage needs to be sent out that killing infidels is not a sport, or a life style to aspire to but rather on that comes with a price to be paid if your caught.

Maybe you should read it again, this time alittle slower, all your questions are answered, and stop pulling out facts out yer ass....

While my example my be an exageration, the piont is peace time training and safety standards, training standards are much different than say a high intensity war situation. as history has pionted out. I'm sure the Canadian pilots who flew in the later half of the battle of Britian wished for more training time as well, but the situation dictated that untrained rockies would see combat before they were ready.... Just to put some perspective on this, during the hieght of the cold war the estamated life expectancy of a pilot was one mission, if they were lucky enough to returned they would be rearmed and sent on they're way once again, forward NATO airfields would then be destroyed or rendered unoperable...and for those lucky pilots that survived their 2 and mission, they would be reamred and refuled on the major hyways in europe...Although this is a high intensity situation, combat losses were expected to be extreme....with this type of losses i don't think the peace time standard of waiting 2 or more years for a pilot to be trained is going hold up....60 mil or more dollars or not....

The proof is laid out on the airfields in Afghan. UAV have been deployed for recon, and for the occasional strike mission with missles ( mostly within the Pak borders) only because if it was a manned fighter thier would be shit to pay from the Pak government. There is hundrds of manned coalition fighters in Afghan and perhaps no more than 24 UAV's I hav'nt seen any UCAV's but that is not to say there is none there.... Many have speculated on many combat systems we have today, the first Anti tank missle was suppose to mark the death of the tank, and yet serveral countries still pour in bils into tank research.... UCAV's will diffintely be part of tommorrows battle space...but i don't think it will take it over....I pray it does not , once you remove the human risk element tocombatants in a battle ,i think it will carry on indifinately with civilians being the targets.... Happens more times than you can believe, i know a few British and dutch apache pilots that got a good smack down by some grunts that got lite up by mistake....as the F-16 pilot, he was gone out of threater that night, before the troops got out of the training area....for a good reason, that one would not have turned out to well.... Most of those aircraft providing close air support do so well under 3500 ft....well within small arms fire....alot of these fighters have been damaged do to ground fire...all it takes is one lucky shot....i don't know of one being shot down yet, but then again we did'nt mix with the airforce guys when or if we got back to camp... I've been at the Battle group HQ recieving live UAV feed and while your right i've never been at the controls, nor can i say the live feed is the same as the controls, however, they say (HQ staff) contols are done off one screen similar to a vidio game , although the view can be changed by the operator, a pilot has a greater field of view atleast 120 degrees. Also keep in mind the pilot also has access to all those modern optics as a UCAV pilot does....be it a social cause or not i still perfer to have a live pilot in the same game, with just as much skin on the line as i do....not some guy drinking a hot coffee and eating donuts in some seacan thousands of miles away.... Thats the way we hope they act like, truth is it's all about the equipment, and dollars....shit if it was all about lives we would would not be having this debate....we'd all be saying hey it saves lives lets buy it.....and yet everyone has posted and quoted 16 bil is alot of money....which it is ,so it's about money....pilots or any other military trade can be replaced alot easier and cheaper than vital military equipment....shit in WWII some pilots barely had 10 to 12 weeks of training before seeing front line action.....once your geared up for war pumping out pilots is the easy part.... I agree with you that more and more of todays wpns will become unmanned, the Navy is looking into unmanned subs, the army into unmanned transport helos, and vehs....but what determines most conflicts today is the loss of human lives, and the cost of resources, taking out the combatants , the human cost will have to come of of where...the population, thats my opinion.

It's true they have already done that, in fact the new UCAV out performs most 5 th genration aircraft in serveral areas.. But the tech has niot been developed to fully replace the human in the cockpit...and won't be for some time yet... As a ground pounder i have an issue with something or someone that does not have skin in the game, some guy flying a UCAV in some secluded spot in Canada providing me with sir support in say Afghan does not give me a warm and fuzzy, A pilot has skin in the game he screws up he know some grunts are going to pay him a vist, or he is going to lose his life to the enemy....he has more situational awareness, he sees what i see, when i see it...his life is on the line like mine is....to sum up he's more motivated to get his mission completed.... And while true a large portion of new fighter tech goes into pilot safety,and redunant safty systems does not mean that there will not be redunent systems to ensure the UCAV survival...while true without the pilot you can reduce size and wieght of the aircraft....but all that is going to do is increase the amount of wpns you can put on it....i argree it will be less expensive but hardly 15 mil a unit....wonder what they spent on the latest UCAV the Americans have designed