Army Guy

That was not my intent as our grand fathers had done alot of the heavy lifting building this country, that being said they also had their fair share of monsters as well, that was my piont , that it is just our generation or the next that is screwed up....i think alot of people will agree....we all had our own challanges to contend with.... And there is always a but...

I know this is off topic, but i just wanted to post this Site , it's a Canadian Airbourne site. once on the main page click on the Somalia site, it was written by A Cpl in the Airbourne Regt it is his own journal that he has recorded what it was like there for an Airbourne trooper there...It is a good read, i've posted it here before. http://www.commando.org/

Not that I'm taking anything away from those sacrifices, but i'm sure if you looked you could find those monsters all through history...it's not like it's new to just this generation, todays social media just makes it easier to find....Just as i'm sure you can find great examples of us continuing the legacy or adding to it.

I may not be the best source of info, but i've been to Gaza in the late 80's while on tour with MFO....i've seen the conditions, and once felt like you do, angry at israel , then my opinon was quickly changed in the wake of the bombings by then PLO....another group of nice guys, Can we get a source on "they were evicted from Israel in 1948 " please. because that is not what my history book is showing..... Israel does not control the movement of all goods within Gaza. It does whowever control all goods coming and going from Israel, again that is their sovern right to trade with whom ever they want. As for the Airport it was destroyed long ago by Israel airforce, in reprisal for attacks...the Port area in Gaza was being used to smuggle in rockets so Israel blockads it , inspecting all cargo to ensure no wpns ammo, rockets get in.....Over the years PLO and Hamas have brought upon themselfs great pain, you poke the bear and you'll get handled roughly....if you want to shed tears for them great....but the rest of us don't want to here it, our eyes have already been opened. And while Israel is far from inocent in all of this matter....Hamas has taken this to new levels... Circumstances are tolerable, the people are still there, still living the status quo....still no one is reaching out for peace...your 10 year plan does not count....

I want to clarify a few things The CAR was not a rogue unit, it may have had some twisted members but as a whole it was a good unit which had completed alot of good things in Somalia most of which goes unheard because of a few bad apples.... and while the statements above do paint a grim picture of what torture looks like....you have have left out the context of what this men went through to get to that state...it does matter when looking at the why.....Not that i'm excusing their actions, those that were punished got what they had coming. But to disband the entire Regt years later was a cheap policitcal move to apease the public.... Torture is bad in all it's forms. and the ticking bomb thing rarely happens...

Do you real think that after more than 50 years of conflict that Hamas has finally come up with a plan that will bring peace to the region....knowing that this conflict has gone on for as long as it has and the thousands of ideas from both sides have failed....And you think this one will work....your an optimist as for me not knowing your right, but then again history tends to repeat itself. If they do decide on peace then great, but like the thousands of other peace proposals i think this one is headed in the same direction, because there is no will on both sides to make it happen. Hamas does not have any plan behind it's promises, what they are going to do to make their plan work....As for Hamas not deciding for Israel , it should have come to the table with something to offer....all they did was give a list of demands...Israel does give a shit about Hamas demands.... It's about some of their demands to allow access to Israel for trade and travel, again this is not an Israelis problem, they are free to chose who and what enters their country.....it is what being a sovern nation is all about...you can't make another nation go agains't their will.

Strawman are you kidding.....Last time i checked Israel was a sovern nation , which when you boil it down means no tunnels regardless of what they are using them for unless authorized by the Israelis government........Which also means they can blow them when they are found at any time, without permission from anyone....why is that so hard to wrap your mind around....instead you deflect any oppostion by saying they are humanitarian tunnels for food, fuel etc.....Who cares, the tunnels themselfs are not suppose to be there.

Do You think this will bring peace ? DO you think that all this hate can be over come with 10 simple promises....which would allow Hamas to rearm to make more demands that it has not intention of keeping.....And what if there is a broken promise, all it takes is one person on either side to smash "your " hopes to pieces....It's to huge for anyone to expect to last.... I see the whole list that benfit Hamas only, you forget this is a 2 sided conflict,both sides need to agree to 2 lists .... nothing on what consessions is hamas giving to Israel... Israel is very concerned about security, and yet nothing on the list on what Hamas is going to do for security.....how they are going to control all the splinter groups in Gaza.... It's great to publish a list and tell the world these are our demands meet them or we will continue the fighting.....promises that have been made in the past and broken , come on you can trust us this time....Israel does care about what they publish, or what they're demands are..... what they want is peace, and they want that without having to deal with Hamas or it's people....they are not ready to have Hamas in Israel....they don't want to have to support them, be it with trade, jobs, etc....

Thats what Hamas wants your empthy so they can continue with there goals.....looks like it is working....alot of tears being shed for an organization that should be showing the world it can rebuild and live peacefully....with out rockets, bombers, and other terrorist tech.

Reasonable to whom Hamas, what about Israel , ya we all get it Israel bad hamas good, they want peace....so they can get more rockets to start it all over again......how many times doesw Israel have to sign peace agreements only to be broken when Hamas is ready to attack....this is not going to stop.... they can't even keep the recent Cease fire, less than 5 hours....

That is a question for the Palestinians to answer, how far are they willing to suffer before stopping.... How much will peace cost both sides....

What occupation ?

You'll never hear about it , because Israel has very tight security on such targets...Is that what you think Israel hates democracy, is that why they moved out of Gaza, and allowed Hamas to take control over it's own future....Is this fact or not.....if it is true then how do they hate Democrazy..... Hamas is the people, they elected them and if they don't like it they need to change it....ot are you telling me their government can not be removed....happens all the time in democracies.....I think your missing the piont here about conflicts they do not get resolved until one side decides to surrender or comprise the other side is fighting for....the only way to do that is for the people to force their government into action.....or live with the consquences..... Suffer enough and the people will move away from any beliefs they have regarding the war.....Have we seen any of this on a mass scale by the people of either side......i hav'nt....do you see any change from either side.....me niether so the killing will go on....and if you think it will drive them closer to Hamas so be it....but one day they will hit the tipping piont......Isreal has already shown them serveral times they have a tipping piont , they send in their military and bad things happen.....

If my house was a media center or communications nod then yes....if the bad guys were launching missles in my yard then yes, a military force would be within its rights to destroy my home, why is that so difficult to understand...

I get what your trying to say, but i don't make the rules, media centers and thier infra structure are targets, normally these attacks would happen during the quite hours when the buildings are not packed....But that does not change the fact that they are targets...you also have to remember that it is the commanders responability to "limit" civilian cas, no where does it say that an attack on a legit target can not have civilian cas...Again i did not write the rules, be it genva convention or inter national law regarding rules of war..

I was not aware that i was complaining, simply stating a fact that those type of facilities are military targets, and have been since the conception of war... Everyone is crying that Israel is some how playing dirty by knocking the power out....when it is part of the conflict a "legal target"....it was done to make the population suffer....in case you have forgotten it was the population that installed Hamas through elections....

You misunderstood, media centers are the targets, the facilities not the people.

Yes the Media is a military target it is a means of communication, just like cell towers, radio stations, etc ...check the list of targets that were prepared in the gulf war....and you'll see tv, radio stations... Good question, well it's again'st the genva convention,international law for this very reason it is designed to protect inocent civilians from being attacked.....although there is a list of targets that can not be engaged schools and hospitals is a few of them, unless the enemy is using or hiding in or using them to launch attacks from.....then they can be legally targeted.... But then again Hamas already knows this, and knows the rest of the world will cry foul, when civilians do die....you can't have it both ways....and when you think about it, firing these rockets in the open takes only a few minutes to set up and fire....but then again Israelis Arty shells landing on open ground does not get any media attention does it ?

It has been a black comedy well before Israel has existed.....people in this region have long memories, and this conflict has created nothing but hate on both sides. And you can blame the politions if you want, but they have been elected by both sides, it is what the people want....it is what drives this conflict. As long as missles are fired from school yards they will be a target. I doubt very much that Israel is running out of munitions, they may be restocking but i doubt they are running out.... Yes i do the vietnam war is a prime example....US had a far greater score than the north, and yet at the end it was the north that declared victory....But as a general rule it is the victor that records history, but in todays world history is writen by both sides. Actually if it was not for US/ european intervention Israel would have ended this long ago.... This conflict needs one side to stop, fighting....that side needs to be Hamas, the Israelis will be forced to stop by the US and european union....until then the score will continue with no end in sight, and the Palestinian people will continue to pay the higher price...

Why do you think they destroyed the power plant, media centers....they are military targets, as is all infra structure.... So your sugesting that Hamas military faction could not place rockets outside civilian areas because there is no room. that the entire Gaza land mass is full of housing no room any where....Perhaps you could give a site for that I'm looking at some goggle map sources that sugest different........i'm told there is lots of space that could be used to launch rockets....there was a massive green house facility that was built from aid money out of Israel, that once completed and handed over was destroyed by Hamas and their people..... And your right what do we expect, poor terrorists not even armed properly, so they are given the right to use what ever force nessicary to drive their piont home.....end the occupation....oh wait there is no occupation....so what are they fighting for again....

Is that what your main speaking piont is about the score ? If the score had been even would that change how you feel about the sitation now...How you feel about Israel ?

If you were ordered to do something at gun piont would you and your family comply.

History is full of examples , what makes omar any different.

What new court, military courts have been around for quit sometime. And how is Omars actions self defense, was it because he was a Canadian citizen fighting in Afghanistan for no acceptable reason, was it because he was a member of a terrorist group, was it because he built IED's to be used again'st NATO soldiers and Afghan civilians. How do you get self defense out of any of that...He did the crime and now he is paying the price...

Perhaps you can provide a source for your so called facts....I'm sure that is not what happened.