Army Guy

I'd be curious to know how many of those Muslims were killed by Muslims.....Killed by their own countrymen, or Muslims from around the world just trying to get in on the killing because it was their right to fight Jihad.....Maybe we should just take responsibility for every muslim's life around the world throw them in the count as well, after all they must have died due to something the west did......

The current government has some issues...The claw back of long term medical pensions was one of them....some bean counter thought it would be a great way to save funding, and it was, and is on the backs of our vets....There are pros and cons to this issue, government policy is made to benefit the majority....But don't use it as an excuse " See what happens when you vote for Harper" ..... I'm sure if we laid it all out on the table the history of the military.....and what parties that have damaged the military, along with the rest of the security apparatus the liberal list would far exceed any other party in our history....search decade of darkness.....it's got liberal finger prints all over it.... I can hardly wait to see what damage the NDP will do, in the end vets should be allowed to punch voters in face and say "stick it" like the commercial says.....

I gave you 2 examples one from the Canadian government web site and one from Inter national law. Inter national law gives us the building bricks in which we can as a nation set up our own Sovereignty....it does not ensure you keep it, or grow upon it....that is the nation that does that... I gave you the perfect example , the one in ref to our 200 mile exclusive economic zone, this is unique to Canada normal inter national waters only cover 12.5 miles....If there was no way to enforce this, here in Canada this is done via our navy or coast guard.... other nations would disregard this law and do what ever it wanted....then would would have things like the turbot war, in which Spain and a few other nations, had told canada they would fish any where they liked.....It ws our navy that enforced those Canadian laws.....and many more when it comes down to our nations Sovereignty.... I never said that Canada needs a large military, what i indicated was our current strength is to small, and under equipped for our land mass. I get that, but there must be some buried deep inside your head, if there was'nt why all the whining, why does it bother you if you clearly have no feels for the country you reside in now.... there is always an airport open, and there will always be someone waiting in the wings to take your place,.... Grass is always greener on the other side.....until you cross the fence.....Not sure Americans want whiners , they after all represent everything you are again'st here.....I'm sorry i can not respond any more, you do not want to debate but instead make little jokes......if your not happy then take some action to change things , if you can't or won't then pack and leave.....maybe it will be me that saves a couple hundred bucks....

look i by no means am i an expert......but I think before Suicide becomes an option alot of things have already passed, but those i watch go through this process, there has always been a series of events.....trouble at work, good soldiers coming in late, missing key appointments, their performance dropping, as these pressures grow, so do other problems, trouble at home is now a major factor, hard for wives and kids to adjust to all these changes as well, that friction just grows until the relationship breaks down, adding another stressor.....drinking and drugs and getting into trouble with the law.....leading to perhaps dismissal from the job, which leads to self doubt over ones worth.... i have never understood the pain, either, nor could i imagine how powerful it is....but i have talked to a few guys that say it comes to a point it is all they can think off....ending it all .....is it a cowardly act, i used to think so....but not any more....nor do i believe it is a brave act.....just a person that has lost hope, and has run out of options, and is not thinking clearly...it takes time to heal, lots of time, and lots of people to make a difference.....hard to convince someone they are worth the effort when they don't believe they are themselves.

According to Websters :Terrorist..... the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal. : Freedom fighter......a person who is part of an organized group fighting against a cruel and unfair government or system. Pretty Clear to me, Omar was part of a known terrorist group, that happened to be in Afghanistan, the Taliban used them as their strong arm to terrorize the citizens of Afghanistan.....The Taliban although enjoyed the support of thousands of Afghan citizens, but for the majority of afghan citizens they were forced though the use of terror and punishment so the Taliban movement could live in a world of their dreams, their own take on Islam.....forcing millions to take part in this nightmare or face death....They were nobodies freedom fighters, just plain terrorist..... The rules of war although they are not many and they are simple they are important, to avoid needless killing of civilians or non combatants , and to govern those involved in a conflict with some dignity, and compassion....break those rules and those guilty are war criminals, and can be held accountable for their actions, or in case of the conventions would not be entitled to some of it's protections....SO ya it is again'st the rules for a civilian dressed in regular street cloths with no armband or marking to id them as combatants to engage soldiers....this rule is not to protect soldiers it is to protect civilians you are not combatants .....along with the other rules of war that terrorist break....And it's called warfare.... How did that work out, just before the invasion the taliban had refused US request to hand over Bin Ladin, and told the US they would defend him. i guess you can't talk to terrorists.....ISIS has got nothing to do with Afghanistan.....try Iraq or Syria...different war....another G Bush adventure.... No, the US took him POW, so they are responsible for his internment and safety....Handing him over to the Afghan government was not an option, Omar would have been buried in the desert long ago.....Legal or not the US government was going to hurt someone for 9/11 besides having a terrorist organization rule with force over millions was not illegal either.....but it was the right thing to do... Glad you brought it up, what implications are you talking about.....clearly your not saying that Children have not been held accountable for the crimes they have committed.....that we as a nation have never charged a child with adult crimes, such as murder....That we have never handed down a modified sentence to under age adults.....because maybe my inter net is different than yours....

Are you saying that with all the evidence again'st Omar , the tapes, etc they could not prove that he aided a terrorist group, spied again'st our allied in time of war, placed mines and IED's that took the lives of other NATO soldiers..... Soldiers do accept full responsibility, but as part of the rules of warfare they expect everyone to step up as well, terrorist do not follow any of the rules and kill without exception, and yet they expect to be treated fairly under the rules everyone else follows.....have the cake and eat it to.....what frustrates me is when they finally face the music.....and are punished for their crimes Canadians scream bloody murder his rights were violated.....Nobody once asked about the Afghan rights he violated.....planting mines and IEDs with out regards to whom set them off......ya nice guy....but we as Canadian shave to hold the high moral ground.....can't be violating a terrorist rights, he is a Canadian citizen....but no tears for the grief he and his comrades have caused the Afghan people..... I get it eyeball to you he was a child.....in Afghanistan he was of fighting age, and treated as an adult....but he was'nt an aghan was he he was a canadian citizen fighting with and for a terrorist organization, which under any law is treason including inter- national law....

Or use this That is about as clear as one can make it, So without a standing military how does a nation enforce any laws or policies regarding not just the defense of the nation and its borders internally as well as externally, How do you enforce these laws. Explain to me how any nation without a military would convince another nation to respect it's laws. Yes Canada is very lucky to be geographically placed on the map, but like many other Canadians you seem to think we are immune to threats from around the globe....today we live in a world were we can be any where in the world within 24 hours, we no longer need massive fleets of ships to project power or do amb landings...and it does not take a massive army to create complete chaos in any nation, the Terrorist in Afghanistan are proof of that..... I think someone once asked how a bunch of goat herders armed with small arms could hold back NATO for 10 plus years.....the threats to Canada are real, whether or not they happen is another question.....But we as a nation must be prepared for every threat, how would the PM explain to the people that it cost to much for defense so we no longer stand on guard for thee.....would you re elect a government if anything happend and they refused to react because they spent that insurance money on some other program.... Most major world events around the world have an impact on our nation one way or the other, some are small, such as handling a few refugees, to major such as sending Combat troops to Afghanistan.....I guess i'm saying we are not an island....The examples you provided are threats, and while you may brush them off your not in charge of 38 million lives, and every threat must be looked at in detail.... Threats to our nation does not mean they have to direct an attack on our nation, we also have foreign interests as well, on top of defensive agreements becuase i mean lets face it ...Our military and it's current condition if faced with a serious threat such as a major earth quake, dirty bomb, major hurricane would be quickly over whelmed and would need outside assistance. To say our military is offensive in nature is almost funny.. considering the size of most of our known enemies..... You may not be saying it directly, but that is what i'm hearing.....todays Canadian military is around 64,000 reg force members, of which maybe 20 % of them are Combat troops , and yet Canadians still complain on the size and the amount we spend on them....Name one country in the world that does not have some form of military force, para military, or security forces let alone with a population as large as ours or as much coast line as we do........ Our nation has rarely spent 2 % of GDP on defense even with a military friendly government. In fact DND only dreams of 2 %, http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/canadian-military-spending-by-the-numbers what do spend the other 98 % of GDP on, if you wanted to take on a crusade why not health care, is it worth the amount we spend on it , are we getting our money worth.....I don't about where you live but here in New Brunswick, waiting times can be as long as 6 to 8 hours.....i have on serveral occasions waited 4 hours to get a prescription fill, no family doctor, that waiting list is 2 or more years..... Perhaps you can explain to me how well diplomacy really works.....you blame the ukraine crisses on the west , i guess we forgot about russia role in that mess, how did diplomacy work in that case, tell me how it has worked in say conflicts in the last 10 years.....How effective has the UN been at diplomacy, Liberal minded thinkers have said diplomacy should be the only wpn in a politicians tool box......can you list some effective examples.....that have resolved issues without the need for military force...... Would you risk your life or the life of your families on that fact or the other 38 million citizens.....Canada without a standing military would be a very mouth watering target for anyone.....it would not be long before we lost our full sovereignty, It would not be in the US best interest to have Canada undefended....and in their own interest they would be force to act.....

Canada already has new defensive agreements with these countries, which include all those that are listed including the US.

Several terrorist organizations, who's goals were to enslave an entire nation through brute force and terror.....so they could preserve a perverted interpretation of the KORAN for their own gains. YA that sounds about right.....and Omar was a part of that, who believe in it so much he risked his own life to take part in it....His family also believed in it, so much they willing were to sacrifice their own sons for the cause..... and yet here we sit today, His family are still residing in Canada, living off the tit of our good will, our tax dollars.....and here is the kicker, we the people of Canada are considering paying Omar off because we violated his basic rights..... The same government that did intervene on his behalf, ensuring he did not receive a death sentence, that he could serve the rest of his sentence in Canada in a Canadian jail..... I just wonder how many Canadian citizens are sitting in foreign jails, serving sentences , did they receive the same treatment.....how many have been transferred to canadian jails....Have their rights been violated, can they sue.....I know lots of questions.... What frustrates me to no end is Canadians have agreed that the action of our government outweighs anything Omar has done....that and the fact that the treatment our soldiers get when killed or wounded fighting our enemies of our nation.....do not merit the time or effort that Omar has received....it sickens me to know that he may profit from his actions while many of my comrades in arms have to cope with handouts.....and Canadian citizens are good with that, and yet hope Omar may get millions for his trouble....

I guess i missed that in history class

In regards to the troops, i think your on the wrong track, going back was not the problem, many of those soldiers that have PTSD have completed multiple tours.....going back although not easy for anyone, was the easy part, after all soldiers have an image to portray as both mental , physically tough as steel....anything less than that, well would question your abilities as a soldier...and for a soldier this is the real beast of burden.....to live up to the recruiting posters.....not to let your comrades down ever.... Regardless of how much training a soldier gets , we still do not properly prepare our soldiers for the sights, smells, noises, and feel of war....we do not train our soldiers on the evil man is capable of....I do know that anyone that has been in a combat zone will come home changed, changes in personalities, moods, habits, different outlook on life, whats important whats not.... everyone handles the experience differently.....but everyone comes back different and will have to contend with all or a few of the above.....coming back to love ones is a special moment, however they are the first to notice the change, they either adjust to the changes, or reject them out right which cause a new external source of grief that a soldier needs to cope with. mental illness requires more than one person to combat....it takes the whole village....loaners normally don't make it.... Lets not forget, these guys were in a combat zone for 6 months or more, living breathing the craft of being a soldier doing so to survive.....then they are plucked out of combat , put on a plane if they are lucky they have some decompression time with their comrades.... normally 3 or 4 days, where we receive some lectures on how to act what to do when back in the real world....., they spend the rest of time getting drunk beyond your wildest imagination, recalling good times and bad times, laughing and crying.........then as if by some miracle your cured go to go..... pushed back on a plane and thrown back into society....where you are expected to be civilized once again....these are all added pressures that all add up, to an over load.....until they can not cope with the simple things in life..... For most we quickly adapt back to normal life, we learn to live with our dreams, accept responsibility for our actions we did , but this for me anyways can take awhile.....for some they can't cope.....they don't come back to normal....they will however put up a wall, hide their pain, live up to those recruiting posters as a tough guy.....until one day they can't live with the pain any more, and decide to leave us.....

One would have to ask the question why would anyone need 8 fully loaded mags for an assault rifle, to rob a train...seems like a little over kill does it not..... This guy was on 3 countries watch lists, how did he get on these lists....i get it his name.....

-1=e^ipi​I'm just curious what you think sovereignty actually means for a nation, and how would a nation keep its sovereignty intact without the means to defend or enforce it.....How do we enforce Canada's 200 mile exclusion zone, see turbot war for an example. there are many other examples..... Without a military of some sort willing to use force in necessary to protect the nation, others would not give pause considering the losses they would incur in the attempt......they would just take what they wanted....... we would be like a kindergarden kid in a high school hangout....Have you read any history at all.

I know it sounds crazy, but bear with me for a minute, I wanted to provide another option, to heavy subsidies to our nearly non existent ship building companies. and while this is in part to existing government policy and actions it never took to ensure those capabilities were not eroded, but some of that blame has to be shoulder on the ship building companies themselves...i mean lets be serious for a second....after the last halifax class frigate was built, what did Irving do to ensure to be a viable partner not only for the Canadian Navy but to itself in the future... So why do we need a ship building industry here in Canada that is capable of building fighting war ships.....alot of nations have also taken this approach let someone else build them and we will build the maintaining expertise needed for repairs.....be it minor or major...Something like this already exists with the scott ship yard.....that use to repair the subs, not sure what they do now, i'm assume they have moved on to refit and repairs....perhaps they have closed, but the fact remains they did repairs ....so it is not a new concept but rather a continuation..... If we want to assist our own ship building expertise, then have these company build other ships that they are good at, maybe the coast guard fleet, aux ves, but we have already proven that we are challenged when it comes to building a war ship for the same price as other nations....maybe it is time to let go of that once proud tradition of building our own navy ships.....why do tax payers have to pay for these faults .....why does the navy have to pay for these faults, if you had a choice of any ship in the world to operate off of, what would it be and where is it produced.....would it be a Arleigh burke destroyer built in the US or a Canadian solution for the next destroyer class....if both could be afforded and why ? Which is one of my huge points, if we bought abroad, due to our decision not to continue or maintain our ship building capabilities, and we can get more capabilities and more ships, why would we not look at that solution.... You have said repeatedly that it is one thing to build a regular sea going ves, but another beast all together when building a fighting naval ves, like a modern frigate for example, tolerances are alot greater, it is just a tougher build and companies need to have that experience before attemting a war ship.........OK so after Irving finished with the last Halifax frig, how many of those specialists stuck around with Irving, because they were lay offs, down sizing down....So to get cranked up Irving would also have to assemble those trained specialist all over again....or train within.... So we drop the the concept of building our own ships, buy abroad, and focus on maintaining them, with a military ship yard....to maintain our fleet....now i know that having new ships means less maintenance but our track record for keeping ships forever will eventually be busy enough , that in the fact maybe the navy requirement for say 15 frigates will be meet, more ships has got to translate in more work....I mean lets face it there are alot of good designs out there built by solid ship builders.....

then i say thank you for your efforts, i personally think your one of the minority of Canadians that does take actions, and use your rights to make change....however most Canadians are not like that, they take what ever they are served up, and they are content to bitch and whine about it....this frustrates me to no end, as i had long ago thought i could best serve my country by becoming a soldier, and be an instrument in change, hopeful for the good.....i could not be one of those that sit down and bitches and whines and watches life pass us by.... I think there is a huge misconception that our soldiers serve Canadian citizens at their pleasure, and while it has some merit, not true all of the time, the military is a tool in the government toolbox , we serve to protect Canadian interest home and abroad, meaning we could be used again'st the population if that is required, in Canada's best interests, history is full of examples, FLQ crisses, in Quebec after native land claims got to violent.... and while the rules of engagement are very different, they do not preclude the use of force, or deadly force on our citizens...now we are talking about Canada here and not some middle eastern nation, it would take a major incident to start using heavy wpns on the population.....but as it sits right now we are controlled by the government not Canadian citizens..... As for our soldiers talking about conflicts we have been, but the citizens have brushed most of that aside and confused it with government pre paid programing, Don't forget most troops supported our mission in Afghanistan, and although we were putting our lives in danger, we thought the risk was worth the effort.....soldiers have long been able to speak to the media, when the chain of command approves, as long as that soldier does not talk about anything political, or out of his prevue of experience or knowledge. he can talk about his experiences, or trade knowledge but that is it..... I agree with you totally it would be nice for a soldier or policemen to never have to use training to commit violence.....perhaps one day, but in todays world reality is some thing else.....no shortage of people that want to do us harm.... Then who's job is it going to be....the same citizens who allowed their military to spend 10 years in Afghanistan. they same group who can not even bother to vote, let alone take action on policies they don't like.....your not giving me a warm and fuzzy .....

I think one of the reasons Afghanistan was so popular was, it was one of the few times we as soldiers could make a difference on the ground, what i mean by that is during the countless UN missions we were there to watch, record and report, by the time New york came back with a confirmed yes or no to taking action the problem was done.... And even then it was recorded and reported,we were told do not engage..it was frustrating beyond believe to take all that training, and build up for the mission only to be told you could only watch it happen and do nothing....the early years inYugo was the worst for this the bad guys would get very brazen by executing civilians in front of us, and telling us it will continue until you leave....so here is a fully armed Canadian soldier with all the training he needed to save or take lives, reduced to filming it all, hoping one day those responsible will face the courts...some did but most got away with murder.... Peace keeping mission under NATO were very different, we got to help the civilians, we made a difference, the bad guys hide in fear because they knew we would engage them when ever we had the chance....where there was no law we became the law, and we gained back the civilians respect .... So when Afghan came to existence soldiers wanted to go over....to make a difference, not for oil, or resources as some have claimed, but to make a difference, it is what we do....and we did that in spades....and we continued that until the day we left, those that died did so because they wanted to be part of that mission ...that and the fact that the mission had for many years been ours, we were making a difference without the support from the people of Canada....it had become our mission.....and we did not want it to fail....atleast not because of our efforts...

I do think it is reasonable, not only would the navy have the expertise in major repairs of it's own ves, which could only benefit not only the civilian staff but also hard navy mech trades as well, but it could also start building on capabilities that are in short supply, such as ship designer,naval marine engineers, ship rights, not sure if these are the correct terms but those trades that you need to build ships, prove their designs, draft the blue prints etc.....trades that when employed at civilian shipyards seem to drift when that company is no longer building naval ships..... This could just save us the price of having a built at home solution, which has plagued our purchasing of equipment forever.....it is a major problem within this country, and while there is a few exceptions, we want the cake and eat it to.....we spend next to nothing on R&D, or preserving those capabilities by capabilites what i mean is the actual manufacture plants, their tooling, their work force..... once we have them...I think we have proven over and over again that we don't have the budget or the stomach to atleast try, and are content to bleed out and compromise in quality and quantity. Which contributes to shrinking capabilities, making the navy do more with less.. DND has been bleed dry this way for decades,not only with ships but everything aircraft, combat equipment.....the list goes on to the point DND is more than happy with what ever scraps the government gives them, they have said we require 15 frigates to do the job, however funding may only allow 10 to be built.....which leaves us 5 ves short, and while this may not be a problem in peace time it hurts during deployments, or crew rest.... retooling and re educating the work force every time the government decides to build naval ves....perhaps it could also be used as a full government facility , that works on all federal ves...which should increase the work load that much more... I guess everyone is tired of fighting to get funding for ships in the first place then see that hard earned cash go to civilian companies that want their share of the pie, which in some cases double the price of the ships , meaning the navy suffers with decreased capabilities, due to dropping ship numbers to make the total cost... The problem with civilian companies doing the job, is it is just that, it is a job, their is no interest in preserving what ever experience or capabilities they gain. where a federal government yard run by the navy for the navy, and perhaps all federal ships that would be its main focus, and in time growing those capabilities to the point it may just be able to produce a home grown solution or at least providing a design that is navy driven. I see it as a win win, for everyone involved, the navy will not have to wait in line with other civilian ship building contracts to have its ships repaired, it will grow navy manpower experience needed, and in time of crisis it will have a yard capable of handling damaged ships.... as for the civilian growth in the ship building , increase the number of coast guard ves, get them to build them.... build our ship building experience around that, i mean how many nations have stopped in Canada and said shit son, i want you to build me some of those.......? look at some of the problems the US ship builders were having, production of Arliegh burkes were pushed to the right because of so many building projects on the go, that and quality issues, had say irving kept up with its expertise and experience it might of been possible to get some of those projects to build here in Canada...once again not sure if that is possible but it was an option or maybe merge with one of those large ship builders... after all i think it was you that once said building s ship and building a naval ship are two different beasts, we could be getting our naval ships built by those that have a proven record...at a much cheaper price...

So if a ship needs major work lets say a fire, or collides with another, or receives battle damage, they are in our scope to repair, it is just not efficient....but could they be expanded to become more efficient? the reason i ask is i think it would be a good investment, have a ship yard that could handle major repairs or refits at the navy level.....I think it would also be a huge training tool for the navy repair guys to have that level ....much like 202 wkshops in quebec for armoured vehs......instead of paying Irving to produce a product that cost alot more then in 15 to 20 years allow that experience to fade away like history has shown..... Skill fad that could effect the quality of product we receive.... and while i know fixing a ship is not the same as fixing an army truck, but we purchase foreign equipment all the time, we pay for our mechanics to get trained up like the airforce as well. does the navy have such a program....

OK i get it now , but in defense Colt canada is in the business of selling rifles, and has been activily selling them around the globe and uses profits to keep current with a huge R&D budget....Plus the fact that DND can pretty much repair anything that breaks, and as i mentioned why can't we as in DND fix our own ships...

Like i've stated derek i'm treading water in the deep end when it comes down things navy. so i have a few questions. what does cape scott do if not repair ships, in the army we have 1 st line, 2 and line and 3 rd line repair , what does cape scott do, and who does our 3 rd line repairs now Irving ship yards am guessing.... And i get your theory, we need to know how to repair and build ships, but is there any options like a military run shipyard , cape scott but much larger run by a civilian component with military over sight. or can we use our allieds capabilities like the US... Next where is the line in the sand to keep these abilities alive....and if these companies were truily interested in navy ship building what have they done to keep current. and i can see the companies point of view here as well, waiting for the government to pay for a war ship is like waiting for the next lunar landing.....but have they proposed any designs to our military, or any other nations, what are they doing to keep current . from here it looks like they wait for their hand outs..... Maybe it would be worth the investment to improve DND ship repair capabilities, and expand on the other capabilities like ship design etc.... As for the British AOR's , if they were built to Navy standards would they still be cheaper, and faster to complete. one more question why do we need a Navy standard AOR. do we operate differently.... The coast guard is a different dept, with a whole new set of requirements, requirements that need a separate venue to look at this whole dept.....in a lot more depth.....it feels like they been added to lessen the blow on convincing tax payers on the bill....that and the fact that these guys have been at the bottom of the pile for decades and could use a lot more ships than what has been promised to them. Another reason is here is a chance to even the score, perhaps take some pressure of the navy by being those guys that did fishery patrols, help the RCMP with drug interventions, assisted with SAR more.

The cons have already made cuts to DND to start to pay for election build up, we all seen that last year.....but your right we'll have to wait and find out what the costing is going to be and then wait to see what promises are going to be kept.... You think waiting is the right thing to do,when we know the current status of the navy..... i get it build one frig every 1 year and half, but really that might be 15 years top, then what are these ship builders going to do.....with no government money they'll drop navy ships as fast as could blink..... which is another reason i don't like this welfare to these companies.....when there are cheaper contracts for better equipment out there like say the British AOR's....which according to some will be twice the ship and twice the capability than ours built in canada.....i'd say let south korea build them.....for a 1/3 of the price.....that is what i find so crazy about this welfare program.....god knows what we could save on the surface combatants.

Just a question, what do you think is the total price tag on each parties promises. and where is it coming from, in todays fiscal climate.... SmallC you know thats bull crap if and when the navy gets these ships next time we talk about ships is 30 to 40 years from now.....at least that has been historical record regardless of who is in power.. and while i'm not a big fan of the current ship building program, i think i could look alot different if either the NDP or liberals get ahold of it.....in my opinion it should all be written to reflect on tomorrow's navy needs.

It's to bad there is not a larger 4 th party something in the center, or slightly right, shit i'd even take far right...., I'm afraid that it really does not matter what party is elected, the military is in for another hit, everyday all parties are promising more and more, that money has to come from some where. unless there is some growth in revenue.... I've never been a fan of this whole Canadian ship building program, I do on one hand i think that Canada could benefit from building navy ships, we used to be good at it.....but reality is telling me it is a waste of valuable military funding, which will be wasted on companies that will not keep those capabilities up after the government money dries up..... There has been several have decent studies been done on Canada's navy and rebuilding it from the ground up.....and while i will admit i know nothing when it comes to navy and it's workings , i do know when the navy is being fleeced to prop up a dead ship building capability....the AOR's are a prime example of that the British just had several AOR's built for a 1/3 of the cost and are receiving twice as much capability...and as inflation erodes the entire projects worth, capabilities will be cut how many frigs where we originally to get and what are we getting now....and what will we end up with.... And then there is the coast guard ships, here is a service that has been screwed over since the beginning of time, and we think the navy is in bad shape...this should have been a separate program altogether and in my opinion this is where we could start with rebuilding the ship building capabilities..... All i'm saying is i don't have faith in any of the political parties right now...at least when it comes to properly funding the military. And like Smc am not sure where i'm going to place my vote, but like Derek i'm sure it wont be NDP, or liberal....

True enough, and to be honest my first tour we were all excited, excited to test our training and chance to practice our craft , and that all quickly disappeared with our first contact with the enemy, and once we had experienced what war is truly like...the same could be said of those thousands of Canadians who were there to see us off where excited as we were, carrying signs , yelling through the fence, you know those slogans i'm talking about....the kind spoken by those that have not experienced what war is about.....none the less they were excited...recruiting numbers went way up....it all points to support, and a want to contribute.

Thats why i really think any media coverage of the current state of our military is welcomed..... We all know the problems the navy is having staying operational.....the army although it has been the receiver of much of the CPC spending....is still in dire straits with shortages of everything and a huge lack of logistical vehs, to the point where i don't think any major combat unit could move and sustain itself without drawing its logistical fleet from several other units..... Yes there are new trucks on the horizon, but only large vehs,which will replace 3 to 4 classes and sizes of vehs....and once again not enough of them.