Army Guy

Let me ask you this , did you vote....i take it you did not approve of the Afghan mission , did you take part in demostrations, did you sign a partion , did you do anything to make your voice or opinion known....these are your rights or responsibilities as a Canadian citizen.....if you answered no then the issue could not mean very much to you, or you don't care enough to make change.....if you don't care then why should you have the right to whine or complain...without your voice the government can do anything it wants.....and if you let them , then you deserve to live with any thing they do, do in our names.....can't make it any clearer than that.... So other than a soldier that was in afghanistan , how did you come to the conclusion any of this was true.....if there is no proof, how does one prove a theory.....Your asking me and the others to make one giant leap of faith....it is not the Jacee i used you know..one that was not afraid to call bullshit when a theory could not be proved.....

But they were hot enough to convince a major super power to take action spending trillions of dollars in the process to wait and watch their investment go up in smoke......not hot enough to convince a major super power to remain in Afghanistan to secure the allege deposits....does that not sound crazy to you.....does that sound like good business practice to you..... SO i will bend to your will ........ name any multi national company that has convinced the US government to enter into conflict with Afghanistan for the sole purpose of retrieving resources with trillions.....maybe a source please....

How has that worked out for you so far....most soldiers agreed with the entire Afghanistan mission but thats another topic.........Making sure the country does not get dragged into unjust wars is every Canadian citizens responsibility, which has been my point all along, part of that process is voting, another is your right to peacefully demonstrate, sign petitions etc.....if you don't want to get involved in the process, then you deserve what ever is decided....there fore losing to right to whine and complain.... As for your other comment about mega corporations, well you've yet to provide any concrete proof, or a source, just words, want to convince me then do so.....if not then maybe you should drop the whole thing...

OK but i also said you could provide any corp that is taking these resources for profit that can be tied to any member of the coalition....and you call me Naive....if nobody is taking these resources, then there is no meat to your theory..... and as i just explained to you why spend 4 to 6 times more for a resource that could be purchased for alot less on the open market......your talking about total control over one of the most powerful nations on earth......that is a major leap on the theory scale....and we are to put 2 and 2 together because of a few posts on MLF, still no sources, no proof...... And i did hear about the uranium rumour while we were over there, and we operated in the hemland district all the time not once did we observe any mining operations....not saying there were none, just saying we heard alot of rumours over there pipe lines , huge buried mineral deposits and yet it all still remains under ground.....

Are you listening to yourself, they'll let it lie, and until people forget the connection .....sounds like something out of the x files......still no proof yet no source, just a theory.... And yet one would have to ask a few questions like how much did the Afghan conflict cost .....it is rumoured that the offical cost is estamated at 686 bil, and we all know accurate these are.....time est the cost at over 4 to 6 trillion for both Afghan and Iraq conflicts...... http://time.com/3651697/afghanistan-war-cost/ This would beg the question of why would a government over spend for these resources that it could buy on the open market for alot cheaper.....because that is not how these theories work......and now we are suppose to believe that they are just going to sit on it , after spending all that tax dollars hoping that nobody is going to find it on their own.....Jig is up the Afghan government is well aware of what resources it has, infact there are a couple of articles i found during my search for Uranium deposits in Afghanistan, that suggest that China is the front runner for these deposits.... US must be pissed, spending all that cash only to have it given to CHINA......I have another theory maybe the US will re enter into the conflict this time unstead of fighting terrorists.....this time they'll go in and steal what is theirs..... http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/nuclear-war-in-afghanistan it seems your theory is coming undone....i guess you'll have to find another theory...

Jaccee: More powerful statements , as I asked OGFT, can you name any Canadian corp, that has profited from these resource surveys, have they pulled any of these resources from the ground......infact lets open it up a little, OK a lot, can you name any corp form any nation that has made a profit from mining Afghan resources....please provide a source....and yes Afghanistan has Uranium deposits....along with over a thousand other valuable resources.... So what , your statement would make sense if you had proof that Canada or for that matter the US entered Afghan because of corp greed for resouces....and yet there was no pipe line no great minning adventures , no oil, infact not much of anything......

on guard for thee: I read the same article, but what you fail to mention that it also said that the retrieving of said resources would not be cost effective....so my question to you is how much of these resources has been pulled out of the ground by the Canadian government.....or a Canadian company .....has any of it been pulled from the ground by anyone...... Could the survey been done to assist the country of Afghan... How much of these resources went into the coffers of any coalition pockets......Jaccee made a very powerful statement, stating that our involve was corporate driven....and you seem to agree, so perhaps one of you can provide a source that would prove that theory.....

Really i thought the pipe line myth was debunked long ago, you mean a pipe line that is still on the drawing boards.....any other resources we should know about......

Just curious but what resources did Canada gleen in Afghanistan, and what are we going to gleen from the fight with ISIS....how about from any of the missions where we sent our troops.....

I find it hard to believe that you do not know what options you have available under our democratically elected constitution. some of them i already spelled them out to you.....and yet you continue with this fantasy that the burden of whether we go to war should rest on our soldiers backs.....you suggest that by the soldiers refusing to go, there will not be a war or conflict.....it just wont work for a couple of reasons, there are enough people in this country who would gladly pick up arms for it, enjoy a decent pay check, and serve our great nation....in other words if a soldier was to quit his replacement would already be in training before he were released.....result would be like taking your hand out of a pail of water..... second you would need to have the majority of the Canadian public to support those soldiers.....Not a chance in hell...i mean there are lots of Canadians who do, but not in the numbers you need for this to make a difference, they talk a good game but when asked to put some effort in well , you lose them......welcome to the unemployment line.... Here is my message to those that pay taxes and do not vote.....or do not exercise their democratic rights .....Suck it the f*** up....your in it for the free ride, they have something to say about everything, and yet are not willing to do anything about it..... stop whining and complaining you have not earned that right.....

well said.

Soldiers do not run this country, nor do they have a say in how it is run, with the only exception of placing a vote, in fact soldiers have less options than regular citizens, they can not publically voice an opinion be it to favour or disapprove on the government policy or decision, they can not take part in any political demonstration or event, they can not protest policies, or federal decisions....Soldiers are suppose to be grey, soldiers have two options, abide by government policies,decisions or quit the military....And for what become a stat, joining the unemployment line, and for those that have to feed families quitting to make a small point that will be forgotten before your release papers are approved is crazy. My first question is why are Canadians leaving this in the hands of its soldiers, thats bullshit.....Canadians have forgotten the power each and everyone has the right to demonstrate unfavourable government decisions, be it a gather signatures, using the media, or gather on the lawns of parliament. if they can not do that, for ever reason you have a couple of options, suck it up, move to another country. If Canadian Citizens can not get out to vote then they deserve any government that is formed, and forced to endure what ever that government decides, with a large sign placed on their heads, I DID NOT VOTE, so the rest of us could tell them to STFU when they whine and complain. For those that did vote and lost you still have rights and a voice. take action to make change....if you dont have time for that then see para above....

Big guy: I dont doubt your admiration for those that have served, in fact thank you for it. That being said there is alot of Canadians that do talk out of the sides of their mouths , saying one thing and meaning something else, Supporting our troops is one of those things....And for the most part the soldiers get it. I think the government did a great job at selling the mission in the early years, Canadian civilian support was very high. I remember the turn out of civilians at trenton number in the thousands, and we left at 3 am. As the mission progressed the government fails at turning out a clear mission statement, but at this point the mission is changing daily so i can't really blame the government. As for them not understanding the mission , again i disagree, everytime we turned around there was another dog and pony that had to be set up for incoming government officials, and it was not limited to just the cons, every party had multi trips throughout the year. it was due to security that they had to stay in KAF for the most part....I think they should have gone outside the wire and should have stayed with the troops a couple of days in field conditions, along with the media....yes it would have been a circus, but they would have received a first person look at what was going on in the country.... Did they make a good decision to enter the afghan conflict, i think so,did they understand the conflict , i think so, i dont agree that they could have reversed the decision when things went south....For most that did go , we knew who we were fighting , we knew their tactics, how they conducted operations , their political beliefs, and how far they were willing to go....i mean it's not like history was just invented....But stepping into any conflict , everyone has to agree it is a long and slow process, there is no drive through, conflicts take decades to resolve..... Your right DND is financed by the taxpayers, which includes soldiers. That being said was most of the Afghanistan mission came out of DND coffers, which included some of the diplomatic projects, This caused many problems DND is still facing today, delay in major purchasing projects, it effected training, other DND operations, cuts to every aspect of DND life.... Had these expenses been added to the taxpayers burden, i think the mission would have been looked at closer by taxpayers. The people would have taken more interest in it. Very few of the media ever left the camp, very few reported on the conditions our soldiers faced,or the tools they were using, and when the story did get out, such as soldiers driving lightly armoured vehs, such as iltis jeeps, wrong camouflage, soldiers had already paid the price for those failures with their lives.....until then everyone in Canada was content,or should i say bored with the mission.... For any mission to be successful it needs more than boots on the ground, it needs the support of the Country, it needs industry, it needs to be funded.....it needs to be long term.....We can point our fingers at the government , and shout here is the failure, but when history is recorded, we all had a part to play.....as for our safety abroad, again it is a team sport, it is not just our government , our military, that plays a role it all of us, from stripping off on some mountain, to how we conduct ourselves at some resort.....to how we conduct warfare. Canadians need to understand war, and what it means, our generations have long forgotten what real war is, sure we get a taste from watching movies, but war is about death and destruction period.....how many french citizens died in the liberation of france, shit lets talk about just at normandy....thousands in just a few days. today we watch the news and gasp 25 died here or there, because we decided to drop a few bombs, nobody cares that this is war, nor do they understand the cost of destroying high value targets....war is about whom ever can destroy the most, the fastest and the cheapest...that includes accepting that innocent civilians are going to die...I know that sounds cold, and evil....but that is what war is all about....and if we can not accept that then we should not go to war. or peace keep, or take part in defensive agreements period.

Big guy: Anybody still think it was worth 170 Canadian lives and multi $billions to get involved in this civil war? When i first read this question, it left a bad taste in my mouth....it was like it questioned every soldier's contribution to this mission. but i knew that is not how you intended. Do i think that the Canadian contribution was worth it. every dollar, every drop of sweat, and every drop of blood. Canada spent some of its treasure on improving Afghanis lives, major projects like the improvement of the dam, building much needed paved road networks, to the little projects like the digging of hundreds of wells, improving of airports, .....you see for me and many soldiers it has to be worth it, not only for the sacrifices we made our blood ,sweat, and tears, time away from our family and loved ones, or the fact that this mission was borne on the backs of our soldiers, most of the mission was paid out of DND coffers, which meant no new procurement projects, training cuts etc....it was all about sacrifice for our soldiers.....for the majority of Canadians all it meant was a few sound bits during each night, that was it.....Canadians for the most part had nothing invested in this mission, they had swept that responsibility under the carpet long ago. Had they had something invested, in this mission, i think it would of turned out different....

Your comparing apples to oranges, why would Canadians need to be violent , we live in a country rich in resources, and the standard of living is good. and have developed our moral values accordingly . I don't think our nations enemies would call us soft wimps. Funney you would discribe Canadians as soft wimps , the same country who took you in to share the same things we take advantage everyday. Which begs the question why did you pick a nation of soft wimps to spend your life with.

I think BC Chick has a valid piont , the owner, who is in the service industry, and depends on customer satisfaction for a living, failed big time......Failed to maintain a suitable enviroment for all customers....if the child was a problem addressing that in a professional and civil matter would be key, perhaps bring the toddler something to do such as crayons, small toy, something to eat.....if that failed perhaps asking them to leave in a professional matter.........Now this is just me , but seeing the owner wig out and screaming at a child , well i would not be coming back,infact I think I would just pay for my meal, and leave and let the owner know why...we expect any service industry to have certain qualities being professional is one of them.

It is about actions,on one side of the fence you have..... What the government did or did not do for omar, with many Canadians believing he should get a huge payout...... On the other side, Omars actions, many Canadians want to see justice done, he done the crimes, and now he has done the time..... time for Omar and the rest of Canadians to get on with their lives...his payout should be no larger than what a vet would receive for the same thing....

I would say most are aware of the problems vets face, but not passionate, not to the point where anything will change. I think Omars support comes with a chance to stick it to the man, meaning Harper, and for some sticking it to harper is more important regardless of what Omar did do....support for the vets gets you, what nothing..... Omar is not the first Canadian to get a raw deal, what about the Native americans, we did worse to an entire race of people and for the most part all they ever got was a sorry from some government elected official.... Maybe its time to let this matter slip into history, Omar begins the healing process, Canadians say they are sorry , he says im sorry we all hug and go home.... making a huge payout changes this issue entirely, for alot of people.

I wish Canadians were so passionate about our vets rights.

That was not my question, does international law give them a free pass fro crimes they may of committed. The UN charter is very clear, that they can be tried for crimes. And if they can be held accountable, then they must be able to serve sentences. Did Omar receive any treatment while under Canadian penal system, not sure. I dont agree with everything that has been done to Omar be it by Canadian authorities, or the American justice system. However i do agree with his sentence, and doing his time for them.

And what does inter national law say about Child soldiers....does it say they can not be held accountable for war crimes or crimes they may have done. does it say they cant be tried in an adult court or receive adult punishments.

When i first read this post the first thing i thought to myself was who in the hell is Michael Byers, did some research and well he is a UBC professor, whos focus is law and political - military affairs.and at one time..... lets not forget a one time NDP candidate. But he is more than that, he has the medias ear, he speaks they listen, then they print.....is that what makes him an expert or has he actual experience in military matters......has he talked to countless military members , does he know how our military works ....or has he just read a few books available at the UBC library..... Just once it would be nice to hear from someone with operational military experience, someone that knows extensively our problems and can provide viable solutions.......but thaose ideas cost tax payers mney and while in canada we dont talk about that....back to michael.... He has no job related experience in or with the military, he has talked to military members, although not extensively, he has meet a few generals talked over coffee but nothing that someone could say he has the pulse of the military.... So my next question was why is this a story.... Why are we not hearing from joe farmer who may hold some education on military affairs......because joe farmer does not hold the media attention and does not want to catch the medias attention. unlike most politicians do..... i know you all are thinking get to the point.....my point is this..... with everything that is wrong with our nations military we have to talk about cutting some very promising programs, i say promising because they focus on future, something our nation is not very good at, and when combined with our state of our military its a no brainer for most canadians...... Other questions i have is why are we only saving 10.5 bil, when the opposition has stated that the F-35 is worth more than double that not to mention the subs..... I think it is time for Canadians to do some research and find out what exactly is our military problems and find a solution to them.....instead of talking trash or taking the focus of real problems.....

This is a news article form July 2014, That suggest he was charged with war crimes. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/omar-khadr-s-war-crimes-convictions-stand-despite-legal-questions-1.2706741

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime Here is another one http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/overview/crimes

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime Here is another one