Army Guy

Here is a important point from wiki ....their sources are listed at the bottom of the page....you can click on them and poof up will come up another source.....like a tofer...

Yes you did....it links to a huge web site with hundreds of topics none of which are related to the topic at a hand.....thanks though....

Sorry i misunderstood your question.....Syria is backed by Russia, therefore it restricts what the west can do to Syria, without causing another conflict....Keep in mind that Turkey is part of the west, and it is also taking part in this conflict...... I am not justifying anything.....What i said was those 4 million killed is a lie.....not true.....If you add up all those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, you will find that 85% of them were killed by other muslims......But that is not what we are talking about is it....we are just talking about deaths of muslims attributed to Coalition forces.....and while that number is still way to high, But we are talking about a war here , and innocent people are going to die that much is a fact.....It is not just a western thing.....it happens when there is a conflict.... I wonder how many innocent muslims your country has killed in this conflict....In war everyones hands come up bloody.....One can not just look at one side with disgust, like you have blaming the west for not controlling the dogs in Syria, this was not a western problem this was a world problem..........You talk as if your country is not part of the west......well sorry but it is, and your involved in this conflict as well.....

Afghanistan, conflict.....roughly 500,000 civilian cas ..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001–2014) Iraq , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War No where does it even come close to 4 million as you stated......even when you add both conflicts up.....

Thats a good question Altay......one that is complicated with the fact that Syria is being protected by Russia which means the west is restricted on it's actions.....So is the west responsible for not taking action, Sure it is....could it have done more, sure it could have.....The west is not even close to being perfect in any matter that we have talked about..... But if we in the west are able to stand up and take some of the blame for the Syrian problem, the rest of the planet has to stand up as well.....and when i refer to the west, it includes Turkey as well.... You can call them what ever you want, they identify themselves as muslims, they claim their actions are for their religion......They have taken your religion and perverted it into something else, Does that not make you mad ? does it not make you want to stand up and say "enough" and hunt these scumbags down....in the name of your religion.....i mean we have seen Islamic countries place death threats to others for drawing Allah, or burning the Quran.....why can you stop these people that bring shame to your religion ? ......

I'm taking it up with you.....but i'm sure the rest of us would like to see a source that backs up your accusations.....or am i going to get refered to another dept.

Are you laying the responsibility of 4 million muslims deaths at the feet of the west.....Just so i understand correctly your saying that 4 million muslims were killed by western forces since 1990.....and none of them died at the hands of other muslims......the reason i ask is that if you look up civilian deaths in either Iraq or Afghanistan, there is direct evidence that says over up to 85 percent of all civilians were in fact killed by Muslims themselves.....why do they not atone for these deaths... who do we hold responsible for these people....surely not muslims.....is that not again'st the law some where....where you so vocal when Sadam was killing his own people or the kurds....did you speak out then....did you hear the muslim community speak out again'st these killings.....what action did they take....where was the Moderate muslim community when all that was happening.....they were silent..what does that make them...... You what honest western style discussion but some how unable to use honest figures....just like most of the issues in the Middle east circle around religion, or islam to be specific...i wonder why the majority of islamic nations are not democratic but rather dictatorships...because they are the peaceful religion after all....you want to be honest then dress islam up like it really is.....leave all the flowers and frilly curtains at home....

Have you done a cost comparison, you are aware that UN peacekeeping has not our focus for the last 10 plus years so those numbers are going to be down, However our new PM says he is going to change that, another one of his promises so don't hold your breath....Canada's normal contributions have been in the Battle group size, such as Afghanistan Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf war one, Somalia, Cyprus, in fact most of them have involved a Battle group plus size commitment, from 1500 up to 3500 troops.....they still need military equipment that provides protection and firepower, they still need ammo, food, water, and fuel to power all the equipment....that's regardless if they stay in camp, or peace keep.... And the UN is not a politically driven organization....come on....how much shit are you going to feed us....

Your joking right.....Canadians do not want to here that, shit there are people on this very forum that does not want to here that, have you not read some of the comment s here on this post.....their not interested in our opinions, and when they shut down, you will end up with relying on the politicians who have decided they are the subject matter experts, on all topics..... That's the problem with intel you can't have total disclosure, or the bad guys will know how you got the intel, and close that hole..... As for you not giving a shit about National security , you've already made that loud and clear.....however the world is not all sunshine and rainbows on the outside, and sometimes you need to carry a big stick and be prepared to use it once in awhile.....or someone will see you as a target and beat you with with his stick....be it by trying to seize Canadian territory, over fish in our waters, take our resources, all of this has already happened but because Canadians don't care to educate themselves about it , it never happens.....

Most of the Intel collected by our country can not nor will not be released to the general public for multi reasons....all of them due to national security, it does not gte declassified after the mission, in fact there is intel from WWII still classified...... Well that is good policy...."never take the advice of the subject matter expert in any case"....which brings up this question who is advising the PM....the cleaning staff..... For the last time Afghanistan had the majority of Canadians coming on line and approving support for the mission, and yet where were they when the mission became unsupported, they were no where to be found......So much for your theory.....one more point, the only military person that has an opinion on any mission is the CDS, and only when it is asked for ....and it is that a expert in the field that is giving an educated assessment on a military topic....So when you say soldiers....there is only one.... Making the vote mandatory.....aaahhh got it, the last election saw record turn outs....that was what 45 % , i guessing as i don't know.....but how well do you think a mandatory vote will go.....who will enforce it and what will that enforcement look like...? it will never work ..... And you still do not get the point......I would rather a lying sack of shit politician make an informed or sort of informed decision...than a tax payer that can not take the time to become educated on the topic.... and it is not just the military topic that citizens know nothing about, most don't even know how our political process even works....

That's not what i am saying at all, but thanks for the attempt....I said i would rather a politician making those choices as they have all the info that regular citizens do not have access to, for instance intel reports, etc etc...Now i have made many statements that our politicians for the most part refuse to list or take advise on military matters from the military or subject matter experts.....In many cases with the current liberals, this advice is coming from 15-20 different generals from the same field, that has got to say something.....it has to send up a red flag as to why? Are you saying that some how that having a subject matter expert in the field such as fishermen......should not have a say in the fisheries ? Thats not what i am saying........That some how some politician knows better than the guy who does it for a living that is not what i am saying, .....I get it that sometimes not all military personal or fishermen for that matter have the best interest of the field in mind, some of them are just out to make a buck. But when enough are saying the same thing there must be something behind it....some based on experience of doing the job for years, then yes they should be heard....and their opinion should be valued over some guy with a BA in ARTS that is a politician who has not fished in his life.... What you forget to mention is there are a lot of issues that are not covered under invasion or defensive issues, there are our foreign interests, such as Lebanon, where 50,000 so called Canadians needed to be rescued.....it was a good thing we have close allieds , to assist our military to get those people off the coast to some place safer...because we did not have the equipment needed for that job.....what would have happened if these people were under threat of military action, it could have been very bad.....because we as a nation do not think we need to spend all that money.... there are lots of examples, of our military not being able to protect our citizens or having the capability to do anything.... Canadians think that our defense stops at our borders, until they are threaten or taken hostage then they want our government to do something, perhaps use the military to get them back...with out the tools, and equipment there is no way.....Like i said before Canada had a majority of it's citizens approval to send us to Afghanistan....but very little support to bring us back....where was the super majority then....watching hockey...

Yes, i know , it is bullshit when you have to be reminded to pay the bill of joining the NATO defensive pact, instead our government is spending more hours trying to get out of paying, than it does actually on our own military...Yes, i did say that currently o did not trust the Average Canadian to make inform decisions on foreign policy matters, and yet some how that is my fault, I mean the during the start of the Afghanistan conflict the majority of Canadians were for the conflict and sending our troops over there....then half way through the mission changed their minds but did not have the energy to bring us back.......but were vocal enough to have all the governmental funding and support shut down.....but forgot about our soldiers.......there is more if you want me to go on......the average Canadian knows very little about our military, or foreign policy, it does interest them, and when press about it they get angry and spit our what do we need a military for ? once again proving they know squat about our military....same as the most of the posters here, know squat about our military and yet.....get angry when their opinion is not taken seriously, and then take it our on those that have taken the time to through experience or past knowledge to try to explain it to you.....of which you want no part of...So now it comes down to name calling or dick measuring.....Like i made all the rules, like i create policy..... I don't insist anything about how your tax dollars are collected or spent.....that has been government policy since before i was born....i get it your looking for a scapegoat....and i happened into your site picture.....let me say this again....i don't create policy, nor do i decide on how our tax dollars is spent..... Following me.....that shit is funny, like i ran the our military....i made those decisions.......maybe you need to climb down from your tree, start collecting some more nuts , you look a bit peckish, may i'll give you a snickers bar , because your not thinking clearly...

Everyone joins for their own reasons, but for a lot of members it is about making a difference, in our nation or in some small way in the world, beats sitting in moms basement, that gets them in the door, into the recruitment office, and like any sales men they could sell ice cream to eskimos in the middle of a blizzard...they don't mention any of the bad stuff, it's all about do jobs that are exciting, helping people that need it, it's about being part of a much larger organization part of a brotherhood, friendship that will last a life time.... Yes they touch on topics such as combat, but never in detail, and never the gory details....Now it is during training that their instructors will file them in on all the details...during battle school our instructors showed us movies and pictures on combat....we had a choice to make my generation we went 20 years without a major conflict...... You guys keep calling it crying, and whining when soldeirs just want to be treated fair and evenly........when a soldier gets wounded be it mentally or physically.....they are released, your services are no longer required, if you have enough time served you can collect a pension, if you don't then you get the golden hand shake....that is it, no workmens comp, nothing one day your in uniform the next your just another civey....waiting for pension checks can talk up to 4 to 5 months....something they don't tell you about until it is to late... Canada's citizens are suppose to have our backs, i mean after all it is our citizens that could be called upon to fight as well, it is in their best interest really to ensure they are looked after and that the government is doing it's job, our nations security is part of that job.....History has shown us , in every major conflict our state of our military was in disrepair....and it cost the lives of not only professional soldiers but its citizens soldiers as well, WWI seen thousands die due to improper equipment, not enough equipment , WWII was the same story, Korean conflict the same....Afghan the same....so how many soldiers have to die, when the question should be why should any of our soldiers have to die due to bad choices that our government made.... But if the Citizens don't give a shit this repeats it self over and over again....I mean who is the government going to listen to...soldiers, not a large enough voting base.....it has to be you the citizens.... .the turn over rate is horrendous, because of the conditions, and state of our equipment...the others stay because it might change.....Stay long enough then it becomes the only thing you know how to do, to old to get retrained....so they stick with it....because they feel trapped.... So when they say not my fault for sure....., yes we all have a share of that blame....if we all spoke out shit would change.........if the PM came down tonight and said no more NHL games on TV....and the beer store is going to be closed forever there would be riots in the streets, people would be voicing their opinions at rallies, writing MP's shit would soon be changed....and yet, as you say most people don't care about our military, I've talked to a lot of military guys they feel the same way, end the suffering now...would they miss doing the job sure.....but right now they feel like most Canadians snub them, ....like we belong in glass jars, with a sign break in event of emergency.....The only ones that can change anything here in Canada is the people....all it take is one voice...and once it gains traction it takes off....governments listen....

They are looking at a lot of options to fool our allies into thinking we spend more than we do, problem is that have to have a quasi military role, ie Para military, coast guard will have to become armed, the RCMP will have to pick up more roles as well ....etc etc

You should talk to your liberal friends, they are going to combine the coast guard in with the military budget to increase our % of GDP spent on the military....for our NATO allies....

Your right , i mean who am i to be telling stories, i thought it would add something to the debate i guess i was wrong...it seems it must of hit a chord with you though Dre, and i think i told you this already i really don't care what you think about me, or what i did for a living, or what you think is true or not..... Now i get the impression your not happy with the size of your penis, as you constantly feel the need to whip it out every time you respond to something on one of my posts, you feel the need to put me in my place as if some how the military was beneath your position in life....that am not as Canadian as you are, or i don't pay taxes some how...that some how i work for you, at your pleasure and beck and call....I'll let the rest of the posters here decide, for themselves who i am , I've been here since 2005 , always as Army Guy, even posted on this forum from Afghanistan to let the readers know what was happening before they read about it in the papers....when i retired from the military i received retirement letter and certificates from the CDS and PM , along with something from the Premier of NB thanking me for my service....what did you get again....oh ya a tax return , thanking you for your payment....but then again maybe when you move out of moms basement she'll might give you a little treat.... As to the rest of your remarks, they are your opinions and opinion are like assholes, even arm chair critics like you has one....

You served nobody but yourself.....Hiding under the the shadow of others that served this nation, be it in the military, RCMP, or other dept....you sit in your arm chair in some cool dank basement, and judge others, or whine, cry, sob, about how you wish things were different, but you can't mange to lift your fat ass out of your chair to do anything to help yourself.....Because i stood up for my beliefs and took action by joining the military to make a difference and you stayed home to live in moms basement, and now you hate me for that .....to Fing bad......Your not a private Citizen....your a lazy SOB that wants everything handed to you on a plate....not willing to use your own rights and freedoms to make changes ....but your willing to trash everyone else's, when they don't match your agenda.....

I think we should not have to have politicians tell us anything....we should have the responsibility to these things ourselves....embarrassing really, kind of like mom and dad having to tell you to pay your bills or you can't drive the car....But there are some Canadians who think who the hell does this guy think he is , telling me to pay my bills.....the nerve.... Well that guy is the guy who has been paying your portion of the bill, and he's telling you buck the fuc* up, the free ride is over....pay your own bills.....want to cry there is the door don't let it hit you in the ass, on the way out "freeloader" Your absolutly right , save a few bucks and sell off the military.....but when you come face to face with the consequences of that idea...you'll need to man up...and stop crying like a little girl.....

This one must be your best work of art todate....Twisting this whole debate back in my direction , was there some sort of mic drop thrown in there as well..... You claim your a voice for Non-interventionist foreign policy for some time now, that's a huge claim, Have you written any papers on it ? have you held any conventions , rallies, maybe a web site. i mean right now your just Dre on MLW web site it is hard to know a person through a web forum.....well sir that is quit the portfolio you have acquired....all of that while on top of your real day to day job....which is what if you don't mind me asking..... While mine is not as impressive as yours, i have spent 34 years serving my nation, in what i thought was a honorable job, traveling around the world at the whim of my government going to see the humanity at it's finest hour, rub elbows with some of the finest beings since Hitler, and Stalin....places like Somalia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and a few other countries that were not so bad....and in each of these places Canadian soldiers tried to do what they could on a personal level to leave a good impression on the locals, do a few nice things like help build a school, or a well, or provide money for school supplies you get the point , we did what we could, while accomplishing a mission laid out by our government.... During all this i lost 14 very close friends and one man who i had the honour of calling my best friend, we were inseparable...and then one day during a routine company patrol we came under enemy contact.....i watched him bleed out in my arms....he made me promise to look after his family when he was gone, a promise that i have tried to keep as best i could.....and i pray it is enough for when we finally meet again....You see he died doing a job he loved, he respected everyone in it, he respected the reasons we do it, he lived , breathed , the job he was a soldiers , soldier.....and while he may have died in Afghanistan , doing his job, on behalf of Canadians, bringing what we thought was a little piece of what we take for granted everyday here in Canada....This was our calling, our purpose it was what we were good at......... you don't have to like it, nor do you have to respect it.....But i will make one thing clear here today, there was not a day that went by that i did not pray to god for peace, there was not a day that went by that i prayed i did not have to end another life.....Canadian soldiers are not monsters, we do what we do because of our nation and Canadians....we beg for your support, because our very lives depend on it..... Our governments have sent our military time after time to conduct military operations around the world...regardless of the state our military is in....regardless of how much or how little equipment we have....or how well or little it is funded....That much is a fact, and it will never change....and still today there are millions of Canadians that still say....if we starve them they won't send them....you don't hurt the government by doing so.....you hurt our military people, they are the ones that bear all the pain and suffering for not having equipment we need to do the job......We don't want to concur the world, nor do we want this grand military force that rolls done the streets of our capitol once a year....what soldiers want is to come home standing up, and not laying down in the back of some herc with a flag draped over us.... We don't make policy, or laws, or sign defensive pacts with other nations , we are the tool that enforces all that. there is no need to fear us....we are Canadian first and foremost. So if you want to blame me for our governments short comings then fine pile it on...

Yes, the problem is me....and millions just like me, relics of yesteryear , Nice one, and yet here we are sending troops and equipment into Poland, Ukraine to stop Mother Russia from advancing her interests, such as seizing the portions of Ukraine, how has these actions made NATO obsolete ? Last time i look our Military does not make policy but enforce the policy that is written by elected government officials, and yet you know this, and some how manged to channel your frustrations towards the military... it makes perfect sense....you don't like who got elected , so you stamp and pump your chest at a debt that has as much say as , well you do....to be frank....I'm not here to protect them the government i'm here to point a finger at them and you , the average canadian because they are responsible for what is happening with our military today.... Wow you got all that from a world map....shit if that all it takes then no wonder there is so many military experts out there....i guess all that other non sense such foreign policy, enforcing sovereignty, protection of resources all of that means squat, i mean we got NFLD's to protect the east coast, nobody cares about the west coast....and inuit to guard the north....were good....How many times has Canada been involved with other nations in regards to land disputes that have seen foreign military forces land on Canadian soil ?....How many times has Russia tested our airspace ?or landed troops in our north ?.....How many times in history has there been a world war ? Do you really think the US is going to sit still while canada goes to O military....what are the consequence of that ?.... You don't know what you advocate, because you don't know anything about the topic, and while your not alone....it takes a little more effort than looking at a map, or reading a news article....I'm just pointing our reality....the fact our military is busy 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, doing thousands of different jobs that you know nothing about...is telling..the fact that you think the only way to compromise Canada's security is to invade is telling.....

You have a funny way of showing it, in fact going back through some of your posts and i would say your anti military.....You may know how our government uses our Armed forces , but you've never said or done anything to correct that, in fact your like the millions of other Canadians who really don't give a shit, one way or the other....with one exception you do rant here on this forum....And well i applaud you for speaking your mind, i'm sure the only one hearing you is the small audience that is attracted to this place..... And while we all wish we had control over where our taxes go, and how they are spent we do not, what you can do is garner enough support for your cause and let your vioce be heard....politicians will listen , but only if you have the numbers... Something the liberals tried in reference to our Military with the question /answer survey on line.....all Canadians had a chance to voice their opinion, did you ?

source....PIK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Thats your problem , you and millions of other Canadians you have no clue about what our military does on a daily basis , nor in what condition it is in....or how our own government uses them.

I agree with you setting defense needs as per % of GDP is stupid.....but there is a reason, and Canada is a perfect example, Our military needs a major reorg, for the bottom up....it needs someone to tell our government that it needs to spend some thing one equipment.....embarrassing really, that we need someone to baby sit us because we are not grown up enough to do it ourselves...... It was designed that way because some nations did not or could not offer enough.....those that could afford more would pay more....we knew that before we signed anything..... those non binding guide lines may become guide lines if that is necessary.....right now the US is paying the bills, and they are looking to stop that.....and if leaving NATO or perhaps kicking out a few nations is the answer then so be it.........Until then we will be a light weight in NATO sphere , and just a few years ago peter mackay was calling other nations free loaders because they would not give out troops.....and yet in Yugo Canada was known as CANT BAT 1 and CANT BAT 2 because there was so many restrictions placed upon the usage of canadian troops that we were in country but could not be used for anything useful. ya great reputation....it was not until Afghanistan that our government took the kid gloves off and we earned our reputation that we have now....with the effort and blood of our soldiers..... And your right there are a million reason for us to invest more into our military.....and our defensive agreements are just some of them, NATO, "freeloading", Norad "freeloading" ABCA freeloading, sure our politicians talk a good game....and spend many hours trying to look for ways to boast what we declare as DND spending to the world, such as including the coast guard and RCMP budget wow.....that's honest and keeping with sunney ways....

You can call it what ever you like why is most NATO countries now increasing their % of GDP that is spent on the military.....Why are they doing that,......yes because they can always say no thank you...were good at 1 %.....Germany has already told trump.....yes we will increase out spending....other nations are following suit.....wonder why....a non binding agreement is being followed.....DO you think that Canada is going to be the first nation to say AAAAHHHHH screw it, i'm not playing.....