tango

The tory reply was ... We understand corporate research - turbines and motors and nuclear stuff, but we anti-intellectuals don't understand this 'basic' scientific research mumbo jumbo, so we're not funding it. So in a couple of years, there will be no basic research - like cold fusion - feeding scientific leaps into applied corporate research, which will bureaucrify itself rulebound into an ever imploding downward spiral of unending sameness. ho hum. been there before. Come to think of it, that's the problem with the auto sector. That's the trouble with control freaks. They don't know how to lead.

Oh I see. You are hypothesizing a small group of independent terrorists? That hadn't occurred to me. I just assumed it would be inside - the CIA - who would have access to bring in pallets and pallets of the stuff, and stash it on secure floors - the floors reserved for 'infrastructure'. That's been the theory from the beginning, I think. To maximize destruction of a terrorist attack, about which they had foreknowledge.

Another sample was collected from the apartment building at 16 Hudson Street by Mr. Jody Intermont at about 2 pm on 9/12/2001. That's pretty specific. What more do you need to know except the location, person, time, date? And how else do you explain the presence of highly sophisticated, not publicly available substance, only recently developed and patented within the US government? Please read the report more thoroughly. Your concerns are addressed. It's clear the report is raising more hackles than legitimate criticisms. "Screw you" ? How very scientific of bushcheney!

Crap, now we have to listen to all parties screaming accusations of "coalition" every time someone talks to a member of another party! such idiocy. We call this governance? groan. And we PAY them for this!

I will conclude from the attitudes and lack of any intelligent critique ... that no one has any valid critique of this study. Clearly some people are unwilling to entertain thoughts of what the truth will mean. That's understandable on an emotional level, but it is not a good reason to reject findings or fail to investigate properly. It is only the truth that sets us free, not cover up. Cover up only allows you to continue to pretend you are free.

Exactly! They were trying to prove ... nothing! Well, since you can't click a link, read, and intelligently critique, maybe you can do 2 out of 3! What's your problem with this? The earliest-collected sample came from Mr. Frank Delessio who, according to his videotaped testimony [17], was on the Manhattan side of the Brooklyn Bridge about the time the second tower, the North Tower, fell to the ground. He saw the tower fall and was enveloped by the resulting thick dust which settled throughout the area. He swept a handful of the dust from a rail on the pedestrian walkway near the end of the bridge, about ten minutes after the fall of the North Tower. He then went to visit his friend, Mr. Tom Breidenbach, carrying the dust in his hand, and the two of them discussed the dust and decided to save it in a plastic bag. On 11/15/2007, Breidenbach sent a portion of this dust to Dr. Jones for analysis. Breidenbach has also recorded his testimony about the collection of this dust sample on videotape [17]. Thus, the Delessio/Breidenbach sample was collected about ten minutes after the second tower collapsed. It was, therefore, definitely not contaminated by the steelcutting or clean-up operations at Ground Zero, which began later. Furthermore, it is not mixed with dust from WTC 7, which fell hours later. On the morning of 9/12/2001, Mr. Stephen White of New York City entered a room in his apartment on the 8th floor of 1 Hudson Street, about five blocks from the WTC. He found a layer of dust about an inch thick on a stack of folded laundry near a window which was open about 4 inches (10 cm). Evidently the open window had allowed a significant amount of dust from the WTC destruction the day before to enter the room and cover the laundry. He saved some of the dust and, on 2/02/2008, sent a sample directly to Dr. Jones for analysis. Another sample was collected from the apartment building at 16 Hudson Street by Mr. Jody Intermont at about 2 pm on 9/12/2001. Two small samples of this dust were simultaneously sent to Dr. Jones and to Kevin Ryan on 2/02/2008 for analysis. Intermont sent a signed affidavit with each sample verifying that he had personally collected the (nowsplit) sample; he wrote: “This dust, which came from the ‘collapsed’ World Trade Center Towers, was collected from my loft at the corner of Reade Street and Hudson Street on September 12, 2001. I give permission to use my name in connection to this evidence”. [signed 31 January 2008 in the presence of a witness who also signed his name]. On the morning of 9/11/2001, Ms. Janette MacKinlay was in her fourth-floor apartment at 113 Cedar St./110 Liberty St. in New York City, across the street from the WTC plaza. As the South Tower collapsed, the flowing cloud of dust and debris caused windows of her apartment to break inward and dust filled her apartment. She escaped by quickly wrapping a wet towel around her head and exiting the building. The building was closed for entry for about a week. As soon as Ms. MacKinlay was allowed to re-enter her apartment, she did so and began cleaning up. There was a thick layer of dust on the floor. She collected some of it into a large sealable plastic bag for possible later use in an art piece. Ms. MacKinlay responded to the request in the 2006 paper by Dr. Jones by sending him a dust sample. In November 2006, Dr. Jones traveled to California to visit Ms. MacKinlay at her new location, and in the company of several witnesses collected a second sample of the WTC dust directly from her large plastic bag where the dust was stored. She has also sent samples directly to Dr. Jeffrey Farrer and Kevin Ryan. Results from their studies form part of this report. Another dust sample was collected by an individual from a window sill of a building on Potter Street in NYC. He has not given permission for his name to be disclosed, therefore his material is not included in this study. That sample, however, contained red/gray chips of the same general composition as the samples described here.

Well, apparently the 'official' report didn't follow that procedure. And obviously, you haven't read the report.

How are such samples to be collected to suit your restrictions?

Two interesting parallels to the treatment of Indigenous Peoples in Canada: British (English?) treatment of the Irish ... http://www1.american.edu/ted/potato.htm The British instituted Penal laws, which denied the Irish peasant population freedom. Irish were forbidden: to speak their language, to practice their faith, to attend school, to hold an public office, to hold certain jobs, to own land, or to ". . .own a horse worth more than $10." (22) These Penal laws were enacted to push the Irish into submission by force and inferiority and were justified by the British government as necessary to retain the character of the Irish.(23) ... To limit the number of people seeking relief and the expense to the British government, The Poor Law Extension Act of 1847 was instituted to deny aid to tenant farmers with over a quarter acre of land. This Act promoted emigration, increased land clearance, and disintegrated the structure of rural society, which were beneficial to British landowners, who sought profit, power, and larger plots of land. (45) According to the Poor Laws, landlords were bound to support peasants sent to the workhouse, which cost $12 pounds a year. Instead, some landlords sent peasants to Canada on "coffin ships", which cost $6 pounds.(46) Coffin ships were "wet, leaky holds" of timber ships returning to North America that were "crammed in with as many as 900 [people], with barely room to stand."(47) Approximately half of the people died during the voyage and the other half arrived in North America unable to disembark, without assistance, due to sickness and starvation. (48) And the Scots ... Clans have existed in many parts of the world but it was in the Highlands of Scotland that the clan system developed most fully as a way of life. It ended with the defeat of Bonnie Prince Charlie's Highlanders on the moors of Culloden , near Inverness, on April 16, 1746. Following this defeat, the Clan system was abolished by law and for many years all weapons were forbidden to the Highlanders, as were the tartans, clan dress, clan symbols and paraphernalia, clan music and gatherings. Even the bagpipe was forbidden as it was considered an instrument of war.. At the same time a program known as the "clearances" was carried out with the stated objective of "clearing the Highlanders from the land to make it fit for the raising sheep". It was this program that was largely responsible for the scattering of the Highlanders to the far reaches of the world. That's where my family came from to Canada, from Highland Clearances and Irish Potato Famine to Canada ... where the 'lairds' are doing the same thing ... clearing the land of Indigenous Peoples for their monetary benefit. While Indigenous children were taken to residential schools, enforced by law, their traditional families were also subjected to the outlawing of traditional practices. Ceremonies were banned, people were imprisoned, etc. That law was not enforced after the 1960's, but was not changed until 1985. The last government-run 'Indian' Residential School closed in 1996. Siblings of children who died in the schools are still alive today, and still wondering where their siblings are buried ... in Canada.

Right. And that's just as much nonsense, imo.

Hmm ... why not base your criticisms on the report itself? http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/gen.php?...cbc32054cbaeacb The expectation at that time was that a careful examination of the dust might yield evidence to support the hypothesis that explosive materials other than jet fuel caused the extraordinarily rapid and essentially total destruction of the WTC buildings. It was learned that a number of people had saved samples of the copious, dense dust, which spread and settled across Manhattan. Several of these people sent portions of their samples to members of this research group. This paper discusses four separate dust samples collected on or shortly after 9/11/2001. Each sample was found to contain red/gray chips. All four samples were originally collected by private citizens who lived in New York City at the time of the tragedy. These citizens came forward and provided samples for analysis in the public interest, allowing study of the 9/11 dust for whatever facts about the day might be learned from the dust.

Oh it's quite different from that. The evidence of explosives in the dust from the WTC ... recently published ... How is it that the 'official' explanation didn't reveal and explain that? Didn't even investigate that? How is it to be explained by 'official' theories? It raises questions that have not been answered, and demands further investigation. Truth isn't dangerous to the public. It's people who seek to hide the truth that are dangerous to the public.

Hmm ... Is Texas going to take Bush with them?

It starts exactly the same.

Why don't you continue your previous thread on this topic instead of starting a new one on the same topic?

source? Because I think this is bunkum, even racist, propaganda. Show me how the rest of us give 'poor alberta' such a hard time to warrant the contempt we hear from there? Facts, man. I'm not interested in opinions that are nothing more than prejudice. Alberta gets my sympathy when Albertans stop disrespecting the rest of Canadians.

Ya right. Everyone who is poor just made "bad choices". Like this woman's husband getting sick. There's an awful lot of ignorant denigration of the poor in this thread. It is very revealing. There are so many positive solutions that could be considered, but instead we are supposed to dismiss them as liars and people who all made 'bad choices'. No real sense of just how fortunate we are to not be in their shoes. It's been said ... at least half the country is only 3 paycheques away from living on the streets. I think with the economic reality today, a lot of people are learning how true that is. Did they all "make bad choices"?

??? I don't like to participate in false debates about important topics, it's true. What we need to discuss is how to deal with multinationalism within the state. Without representation from the nations involved, I don't believe we can have that discussion. We don't know their issues or represent them and any suggestions of how they 'should' be dealt with would come from our own limited cultural perspective. In fact, Canadians and our governments continue to arrogantly make judgments and decisions for Indigenous Peoples and about their lives and livelihoods and lands without consulting with them. It is one of Canada's worst failings - uninformed, ill-intentioned unilateral decision making about the lives of Indigenous Peoples, imo. Ask yourself instead ... how did Canadians allow our governments to perpetrate these crimes against thousands of defenceless children? Ask your self as Canadians how we can make sure we never allow that again. And then ask yourself how can Canadians prevent the still ongoing encroachment of Canadians on Indigenous lands? How can we make sure that all levels of our governments respect Aboriginal Rights and Titles? We Canadians have a strong inclination to shy away from anything that involves engaging with our governments and political systems, because we know they are immovable. So instead ... we try to go around them and instead of addressing our own democratic deficits, we instead try to tell others - the victims of our governments - what they should do. I say we have to start taking full responsibility as citizens for the actions and inaction of all levels of our governments, past and present. I think the true stories of the children who went missing in Canada's residential schools is a good place to start. We don't have an ideal world, a clean slate. We have to work from where we are towards an ideal.

but this is very encouraging ... But Watts says “there’s a lot more hope than ever before, because this will be the first new group of leaders that weren’t actual attendees of residential schools.” At Gathering Our Voices, a provincial aboriginal youth conference that was held in March, he says teens expressed excitement about getting an education and achieving success while retaining ties to the community. In fact, the survey found that 82 per cent of aboriginal teens agree that it’s important to gather for traditional ceremonies, and 84 per cent say family is “very important,” compared to a national average of 67 per cent. “Our leadership look at these youth, and say, ‘Wow, we’re going to be okay,’ ” says Watts. Part of this optimism stems from connections that aboriginal youth are making with each other. Though Internet access may still be limited in remote areas (61 per cent reported using the computer more than two hours daily, compared with the national average of 75 per cent), he says social networking websites Bebo and Facebook are making a huge difference in combating feelings of isolation. In fact, 45 per cent of on-reserve teens said they had met a close friend online, more than double the national average. Watts says that securing Internet access is an important goal for those First Nations communities where it is not currently available. “They realize that’s the means of communication for their youth,” he says.

To me this just means that Albertans do not respect their obligations as part of Canada. Love it or leave it, eh? And I assure you, we Easterners do take it very personally. The venom from some Albertans is absolutely shocking to us, and very ... um ... tacky.

Agreed. Especially since the fear generated by 911 was a setup ... to make Americans scared of an external force, when the complicity was most likely within the duly elected administration.

... for political reasons that benefit the party, nothing to do with what is good for the country. (non-partisan ... I think all of Canadian politics is a sewer!)

There is a strong tendency in such cases of abuse of war crimes laws to scapegoat the low level person(s) carrying out the orders and call it case closed. (eg in Canada ... the Somalia affair') I'm glad Obama is not allowing the agents to be used as scapegoats for those who played fast and loose with the rules. I hope some of the higher ups fall instead, but I suspect this is directly from Bush himself.

Please respect that the topic is children who died in residential schools. This has not been discussed, is not even known among Canadians. It's the truth that must be known before we can discuss resolutions, reconciliation. Children died BECAUSE Canada wanted to destroy Indigenous families, communities, people, culture. Why did Canada do that? To destabilize and destroy their land rights. To extinguish Indigenous Peoples, culture and land rights. The land and resources that sustain Canada's economy are the 'booty' taken from Indigenous Peoples by force, by abuse, by oppression and by the death of over 50,000 children and destruction of their families and culture.