kuzadd

From Haaretz It is this very racism that will bring to it's end the state of Israel. And the Israelis and their apologists will have only themselves to blame Too many of it's citizens have become consumed with hatred, a hatred that was fomented by Israel's own government to feed the us vs them monster. That kind of manipulation can only end badly

what a crock of crap, sacrificed to stop hate, I laugh out loud at that. war is for gain, geostrategic postioning and resources, taint nothing else matters. The belief that war is for good, for humanity, to save future generations is all a crock of shit. Promulgated by leaders and sucked up by the gullible. How vile and despicable war seems to me! I would rather be hacked to pieces than take part in such an abominable business. ~Albert Einstein Not you kk, you swallow the bait, hook, line and sinker, gotta love people such as yourself, such good servants, so obedient, so non-thinking. “Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.” Henry David Thoreau I am sure that will fly right over your head, you and others like you, oops it's already gone.

hey drea, isn't that the way it has always been on this forum? nothing has changed. What are the issues, I don't really know, but you are a so and so, or a such and such. whatever, and the issue never gets discussed.

how many more obstacles before it is obvious to apologists?? it is irrelevant, that is why their are apologists. They can never make too many excuses. Israel never has wanted peace nor cares about international law, it is not part of it's agenda. Therefore it is moot, to Israel and that countries apologists.

They get this idea, through religious indoctrination and state-sponsored propaganda. This sadly works to create fanatics out of good people, causes them to turn a blind-eye to their own inhumanities, it blinds them to the error of their ways. That is the only way I can see an ability for this kind of nonsense to take hold.

dub: if you can spare an hour of time, give a listen to this woman speaking. "The Cost of the Occupation to Israelis and Palestinians" with Israeli activist Dorothy Naor. The continuous state of war; Israeli government policies of ethnic cleansing and expansionism leading to the devaluation of human life, including the loss of life and limb, socio-economic deterioration, post-traumatic stress and lack of security; boycott, divestment and sanctions as non-violent means to pressure the Israeli government. She touches on alot of points made throughout this thread, and more, much more.

But, hey it is ok for Israel to create little disjointed islands, under Israeli control of course, for the Palestinians through land theft? Right? MAPPING AN OCCUPATION the map, shows clearly what little is left of the Palestian allotment, under partition that is actually under their control. It also shows all the roads Israel controls. And they can just suck it up? As Israel usurps the land. Cause "God gave the land to Israel" right?

KK your arguement that because this resolution was rejected by some parties, it was not passed it completely bogus. It is irrelevant bullshit spin, used as propaganda to create a negative image of the Palestians. It has no relevancy to the passing of the resolution. It is just more spin. Resolution 181 was passed and Palestine was partitioned. The rest as they say is history. UN Partition Plan "The United Nations General Assembly decided in 1947 on the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem to be an internationalised city." So the Israelis, pretended to agree to the terms of the partition,(which means they really did NOT accept the terms of the partition) with the fingers crossed behind their backs, with the full intention of usurping the indigenous peoples land, as they have been from the get go. Just the facts, not the spin.

oh and one more thing kk, your arguement rings false wrt Palestinians, because as you state yourself, the partition of Palestine was a reality, with or without them. Israel with prescribed borders, (that they had no intention of respecting) became a country. And that has been my contention all along, that Israel never accepted it's borders, which finally you concede is correct, why must it take so long for awareness of facts to set in. KK: "The majority of Jewish groups including Ben Gurion were in favor of it with Gurion simply wanting more land." My contention all along, thanks for waking up! Now obviously as already stated, Israel had never really recognized it's borders, drawn up in the partition of Palestine, and always intended to usurp the indigenous people. thank-you, thank-you , please throw cash on the stage

well kk, if there were no borders, no limitations set out for Israel with the partition what the hell was Ben Gurion talking about? He is clearing acknowledging that there were and he is just going to ignore them. exactly opposite what you are saying. "To maintain the status quo will not do. We have to set up a dynamic state bent upon expansion" ""Take the American Declaration of Independence for instance. It contains no mention of the territorial limits. We are not obliged to state the limits of our State."

Hate to break it to you there were borders, and that map you chose to ignore, lays them out clearly. When the country of Palestine was partitioned, defineable borders were given to create Israel from the land usurped from the indigenous population. Israel has always ignored those borders, that were alotted to them. I have covered that numerous times already. Here is the map again map of an occupation click on the interactive map, have some fun. and then get the facts.

Krusty: you keep insisting on making a bogus claim that Israel accepted the partition borders. Now did you look at the map, I linked to? I will link it again MAPPING AN OCCUPATION The partition borders are clearly marked there, just click them in! Then look at all the land Israel has stolen, controlled, illegally settled. Well beyond their partition borders. Has Israel ever abided the partition borders?. The answer is NO. To accept means to abide and live by, to agree to the terms. Not from the get go, not now, and not ever. Israel clearly did not ever accept their borders. David Ben Gurion made that more then clear on many occasions. But more then that, far more then those words uttered in a clear fashion, the ACTIONS of Israel since the partition have made it abundantly clear that Israel never, not even for a second considered the partition borders the limits of their nation. To believe so is to believe utter fancy. Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.Does that sound like someone who abides by the partition border? And why would they, the Israeli government has a colonialist mindset, and the people are intoxicated with the mindset of religious fanatacism, "God gave them" the land. Certainly when you 'believe' that God ordained something to you , borders dictated by mere mortals will never stand in the way.

Has he found justice? Or has justice found him? Well he has been arrested anyway, who knows about the justice part, really?

The map of an occupation makes it clear Israel has never accepted it's lawful borders. Talk is cheap. Land grabbing and expulsion along with ethnic cleansing is for real. Actions show where the heart of the matters lie. That map I posted makes it absolutely unequivocally clear. Israel has never accepted it UN mandated borders, never intended to and never will. Again I will let David Ben Gurion speak * Speech in 1937, accepting a British proposal for partition of Palestine which created a potential Jewish majority state, as quoted in New Outlook (April 1977) Ben Gurion makes it clear the so called 'acceptance' of the boundaries were by no means a LIMIT to their expansionist aspirations, merely a starting point to expand boundaries, NO EXTERNAL FACTOR WILL LIMIT THEM. As the map of the expansion and occupation shows clearly, that has been and is the goal. I was thinking in simplified terms how to explain this. Israel is like the cheating partner in a relationship. They took vows solemnly, they said they would be faithful, but no sooner is the honeymoon over, the cheating partner is out, well cheating. Despite the most solemn of vows that they agreed to. That is Israel's position in this situation, they made the vows ('accepting' the boundaries) with no intention of ever sticking to them. None whatsoever. And, they never have. Mapping an Occupation

had to just shorten that down a bit. no offense intended, hopefully none taken? that is obvious.

dub: of course he is not saying that, because he can't. Except in fantasy land. Israel has never accepted the boundaries of the partition, they never will. They will never allow the formation of a Palestinian State. There new extremist-terrorist government of their choosing has been making that quite clear. Oh and one more thing, the proof of this is in a map recently placed on the Guardian news site. I'll be right back..... Mapping an Occupation it's interactive, and makes it clear just how much land Israel has stolen in their occupation of the indigenous people.

HEMET, Calif. Yes, why would a grown man, a marine staff sargeant be taking a 14 yr old girl out to cars to have sex with potential recruits? Is this supporting the troops? Is this an approved of method to recruit? Is it a wind and nudge method? Is this guy a sick pedophile? Did he get his jollies? I mean what is this about? Abuse of Power? What?

absolutely brilliant! someone is getting it. let the fools be played by the game.

NO need to dumb it down any more then your usual moronic speech. I'll try to K.I.S. S for ya okay? Palestine, can never do anything to satisfy Israel. Israel does not want peace, they benefit too much from war. Israel does not want to recognize an independant Palestianian state, and they never have wanted to. Not previously, not now and not in the future. What is that? OBVIOUSLY, because Israel does not want defined Palestinian State borders, which would then therefore, obviously DEFINE Israel's border, and I will say it again Israel does not want defined borders. Israel under the guise of endless war can continue on in her expansionist mode, which she has from the get go. Israel does not want peace. Therefore and most obviously to those who can think a thought not dictated to them. There is nothing that the Palestians can ever do that will satisfy Israel, acclaimed need for peace, when Israel does not want peace, they want land. Did I make it simple enough for you? It is all obvious anyway, if you actually knew much of anything about that situation. And, clearly you do not! Go see what the animals are doing, I think that is wonderful, maybe you will learn something from them, anything! A quote from David Ben Gurion-1948. Does he make it clear enough? Israel had defined borders, when the UN partitioned Palestine. They were rejected immediately, by Israel. Hence and as I already stated Israel wants land, not peace. By whatever means. here, though I would throw one more in there for you, since you have comprehension issues David Ben Gurion

I didn't, there never is any difference in American Presidents, or American Policy.

isn't it amazing how on this forum it is acceptable to advocate for mass murder? hello moderator, do your job! Borg: someone with a hive mentality, following, never thinking, how is it you picked such an ideal name?? seriously? Hey at least you know yourself and are comfortable with your drone ways.

Isn't that Israel's gig? Hundreds of New Testaments torched in Israel oh yeah, it is! burning bibles, shouting god gave us this land, closing down festivals and popping balloons, cause they are Palestinian balloons.

no it is not okay, and it also not the first time and nor will it be the last. Colonialists generally find this acceptable. If it was ok to do to the natives in our poorly educated past, then to them, it is still ok to do it in our present. Except we are supposed to be smarter and better educated. Go figure that one out? There was another story a few months back, I'll find a link.... Israel Police Ban Arab Culture Day in Jerusalem This made me LMAO! Balloons have nationalities? On what planet? Did this so called "intelligence" officer, realize how unintelligent his statement was ? Talk about irrational, sheesh!

It isn't true tango, but then, better to live in blissful ignorance, much easier.

Sadly, I hold out no real hope for Obama, his words have largely been empty. Dub have you read this piece, it is excellent! Understanding the smearjob that was done on the Durban Review Conference Programme of Action contained in the DDPA. This conference was convened in Geneva in late April. If you wanna better understanding of the so-called boycott of Durban. It is written By Sid Shniad Independant Jewish Voices for Canada. I recently heard him interviewed, I must say what an awesome fellow. If I may make a suggestion, check them out! That said, sorry for taking your topic, off topic, just had to share that.