madmax

The Media are always going to be on a hot story. One of the problems is that the CPC lost credibility the moment the attained office by not sticking to their principles. Once you have this level of doubt that the CPC are no different then the LPC with regards to integrity, you are going to attract the Media Sharks on every controversy. And the media sharks prefer a good story over political bias. Welcome to the feeding frenzy.

I have no reason to sing a song of joy, over one of the largest tax grabs in Canadian History. Enough money to even bail a Liberal Government out NAFTA is simply a trade deal with as many flaws as strengths, but only the Canadian Public actually believed the Liberals would scrap it as promised. And they didn't. And I do think Hillier will look for newer pastures, in government or running as a CPC candidate.

The Khmer Rouge were successful at purging intellectuals. The USSR under Lenin and Stalin. Nazi Germany. Communist China. Hmm, Canada? Nope, not in my history books.

This country has been ruled by Conservatives and this nonsense continues. This is purely incompetence. How could the Police not been informed? How could this individual, an admitted killer be allowed in without any safeguards for the public? TickTock indeed.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/04/15/hillier-re Excerpts So, when does he run for the Conservatives???

That's still more then you have been able to accomplish. If 77% of them didn't vote, You could say YEAH!!! ME TOO!!! If 77% didn't have a job, you could say, YEAH!!! ME TOO!!! ...I don't work alot either. If 77% were offered a job in the west and turned it down, you could say, YEAH ME TOO!!!. If 77% couldn't spell correctly, you could say YEAH ME TOO!!!

1) Chretian was not wishy washy, he stared down his own party on numerous occassions. 2) Yup they tooks the monies. 3) It is the Broken Promises (left wing promises, Liberal Promises (Red BOOK) ) that they didn't keep. 4) It is 13 years of inaction with Climate Change, Child Poverty, etc, nothing of concern to CPC members. 5) The Liberals behaved like very effective Fiscal Conservatives at the cost of their Left Wing Base. 6) People will vote Liberal, like people will vote CPC, it's called your base support. 6a) Perhaps you missed the last election, like flyers sent to my mailbox, but the CPC won the last election. 6b) Sounds like a sore winner 7) I am PROUD to be a Canadian. I am never ashamed to call myself a Canadian. 8) The CPC haven't accomplished much in the big picture. Minor things, and recently most of what is going through is with the subservience of the LPC. People I speak with are very concerned that the budget has been blown and there is little to show for it. (Thus possibly the thought of Flaherty being a "Red Tory") The Fact that the Liberals are performing this poorly and the fact that the CPC cannot make a breakthrough is because of posts similar to yours with Partisan Rhetorhic that people see through, creates the perception of that the CPC has a dislike of Canada. The opportunity is that the LPC is virtually paralyzed in Quebec where the money laundering you speak of occurred. Because the People of Quebec were closer to the source, they have taken it far more seriously then other provinces, where ties to the Liberals have been strong. The Libs were driven out of the West, Similar to Provincial Conservatives being driven out of BC and Sask. The Brand was tarnished but the Conservative Voter still exists. Similar to Social Credit being wiped out of BC and ALberta. They votes simply went elsewhere. So why the LPC not fully eradicated is a separate issue, and this is what you seem to post that you would prefer happen. That no one vote Liberal. I disagree that Canada is a place for a one party state government. Democracy thrives on differences. Which gets back to the current state of the LPC. If they are busy agreeing with the CPC in the voting chamber but disagreeing in the debating chamber, you have to wonder, with the LPC folding up its tent, will it cause them the collapse similar to that suffered by John Turner. Turner was beaten in a debate that has been recorded in history. The knockout punch that formed an opinion. Dion looks weak whereas turner didn't go into the debate as a weakling. He was strong and he was knocked down. Harper appears strong, but when push comes to shove, he appears like a pushy shovey schoolchild. But... What would happen in a Debate between Harper and Dion, or even worse for Dion a debate with Harper and Layton. Dions Personal numbers down. The opinon supported in this poll that he hasn't the qualities to lead the party, and one wonders.... will the LPC brand make it through an Election? I would think not, but with the CPC not making breakthrough after years in power, I think this reflects poorly on the state of the current government.

Flaherty is not a Red Tory. He is incompetent. But I don't believe that this is hurting either the CPC Brand or Harper. Flaherty is being judged by own and this is a good thing.

I don't believe the NDP has done as well with immigrants as have the CPC or the LPC. Obviously the LPC being the most dominant in Immigration. I do believe that immigration is part of the LPC brand that keeps their polling numbers strong. The NDP brand has been more associated with women and women candidates, then immigrants. I do believe that with the latest CPC initiative the NDP are trying to grab some of the LPC turf, that the LPC appears to abandon to avoid an election. I do agree that the CPC has made inroads in Quebec.

Yes, I caught that earlier in your previous post. Sorry, I didn't have a reply, cause I thought I would go through history and look for one. (They have other convictions, but thats a different definition) Score JBG 1 Madmax 0 Taking your point into consideration would mean that if they have no convictions then the only reason to trigger an election is to attain power. Which would clarify the current Liberal horseplay erm houseplay . But, I would like to say that the fear of an election, not called on their timetable has the LPC very worried and SCARED. BOO!

The Liberals are SCARED , and if they believed in what they say, they WOULD trigger an election. If they agree with the Government, come out and say so... The voting record has been atrocious. Luckily for them, nobody really pays attention...

I thought the comment section, could be used to figure out why a virtual stalemate has occurred in the political arena. What these results might indicate (all 5 of them) is that Harper is the strength of the party, and the reason they are not making the breakthrough could be attributed to him, and not necessarily the Party Brand holding the numbers back. Looking at the Dion Results, could indicate that Dion has failed to take action, and that it could very well be the Liberal Brand that is keeping the polling numbers high. The L Brand is Bigger then the Leader. (But would this hold up in a campaign as leadership weakness are often exploited) I am not certain what to think of the NDP holding ground. Layton may be bigger then the Brand, but this can be both an asset and a Liability. There is always a core of NDP support but the growth...like that experienced by Ed Broadbent, was attributed to the strength of his Leadership and Popularity. So, analysing things might suggest that the Right/Left Leaders have more work to do to create a breakthrough if they are to move the polling numbers. Perhaps, Dion has to show slight improvement and/or focus and Liberal numbers could shoot up dramatically. Which gives rise to the fact that Dion may already be written off by the Party Elite and they are searching for "the Next One." I do believe that Harper has lead his party to a broader base, broken past their Western Base, but now is handcuffed on what to do to receive a majority. What is needed to get that 5 or 6 points needed. He may have hit the ceiling, and the growth will not go further without a subtle turn of direction that doesn't cost him his base. But the Truth lies in the fact that there isn't one more seat in Alberta that he could get...

Well, it's a TAX, like a GASOLINE Tax, and it is something that you pay. And then for those who can afford it, they have the funds to continue to pollute CO2 emmissions. You tax manufacturers here, so they will go overseas, continue to pollute there, and sell there consumer goods here. Usually with all that extra plastic wrapping that has become the standard of the New Green Yuppies and their Ipods, Cell Phones and other high tech, cheap, not easy to dispose of communication devices. It is really a warm and fuzzy thing that makes us think something is being done.... but lets read the rest of your post... THE HORROR, THE HORROR, it's the Liberal Tire Tax Part 2....... Why turn down the revenue indeed, especially if people think the tax is saving planet earth. Actually, if the Carbon Tax is Revenue Neutral and the Rich are getting greater tax breaks elsewhere, they will be able to spend more money on CO2 Emitting devices, and emit more CO2s and be ahead in the tax scheme. It is one reason why some Conservative Leaning Environmentalists in BC like the Carbon Tax. They are going to get big tax breaks elsewhere to not even have to worry about the Carbon Tax. There's a mad in your name isn't there I do not trust the government particularly a Liberal Government to do the right thing, but to spin anything they do as doing everything possible while accomplishing very little. That said, the Conservatives have blown the Environment file, haven't done anything themselves, and lack credibility that they would do anything. THis is very far removed from Previous Conservative Governments. I believe that this is because Harper Represents more of an American Influence, and US Conservative Environmental Policy of the Federal Level is abysmal. Harper could have etched his own ground, a Canadian footprint on the Environment and done something (Unlike the Liberals) instead of live in a state of denial. Regardless, there are a number of countries with a Carbon Tax. It is a Tax. It will cost you more money and there is nothing I can find that will allow for rebates to poor people. Especially if Rich are getting tax breaks, and poor get rebates, where does this leave the environment.... Governments are lame.... People do want to see some action, physical action, yet all they can come up with is a tax.

I know, just having some fun... Now, how about the Liberals? I have to say, since regrouping after the Bi Elections and seeing some Leftwing elements elected, they have been showing their toughness. They chastise the government, and then with the behavioural activities of Gollum/Smeagol, vote with the Government on the very issue they chastise. Harper is calling them on it too. This group of Federal Libs are having some "issues". I don't recall this kind of nonsense last year, or perhaps not this extreme between hiding from a vote or supporting the government. I am not certain what it is all about, except to say, these guys are afraid. The Libs numbers aren't even that bad in the polls, they are just afraid. The NDP has been showing some very weak numbers, (not that they didn't spend a decade at 6%) but certainly lower then 2006 numbers and they are calling the actions of the CPC as they see them. They are the only ones, ok sometimes the BQ, standing up to the CPC on issues that they oppose. But if the Libs oppose something, they either HIDE and disappear before the vote, or for the strangest reason, they vote WITH the government. Why don't they just do a David Emerson, ask for the whole party to switch sides and join the CPC and they wouldn't have to suffer this embarrassment. The Handful of Liberals that actually might not support the position of the CPC could join the NDP or Sit as Independents. Heck, maybe the Conservatives could take Garth Turner Back or he could sit alone, I don't think he has gained any prestige since joining Dions Circus crew. You really have to wonder, how long can the Liberals fail to provide an effective official opposition while they figure out their strategy back to power? You can't put the people whom elected you to do a job on hold until you figure out a way to win??? Could you see Preston Manning, or Tommy Douglas, Ed Broadbent, say, wait a minute.... our principles of what we believe in are on hold, until we know we can win. The Liberal Principles are that they are flexible and will say anything supporting polling information that can lead to a win. And the polls aren't telling them what the winning ticket is, and the rest of Canada is supposed to understand that the Liberals don't know what to do, but just bear with them, while they support the CPC.

How is allowing rich people to pollute and allowing foreign exporters to continue to pollute going to be reduced with a tax shift that benefits the wealthy and puts poorer families in a position where they will not be able to heat their homes? This reminds me of people who get rid of a functioning vehicle and by a smart car to save the planet. The most ineffective, moderately useless expensive to produce vehicle that has very little function. Try carpooling with 4 people? No get two smart cars. Like people want to see old vehicles scrapped, not realizing the carbon footprint created in manufacturing a new one. Like people who claim Nuclear is the Solution to Carbon Pollution.... Heck I even think a Green Party candidate works in the Nuclear Plant..... I met other Green Party Members trying to save Nanticoke with the Clean Coal phillosphy. I do think that every party, barring the Conservatives, has an environmental initiative that can benefit Canadians. But then Politics gets into it, and instead of dealing with the problem, we get the "TAX" solution, which is no solution. It is a tax with "Good Will" attached. Heck if you want to curb peoples uses of carbon emmissions, just ration them, like items where rationed in the war. Could you imagine what Rich people might do? Heck a tax would look good, as long as we can keep polluting and pretending to do good. Really, I think people HERE should get Money for all beneficial retrofits to their homes. Obviously, with the costs to some heating possibilities, Geo Thermal is out of the range of most Canadians. But what a great way to do things. Sorry if I am currently suspect about the many environmental initiatives put forth by government, corporations and Political Parties, including one with an environmental name. BC has a Carbon Tax, I don't believe it is enough to change anyones habits, but it does generate revenue. It could put some poorer people in the North of BC who already pay draconian fuel prices in the dark. But lets call BCs Carbon Tax, exactly what it is, it is a gas tax. Nothing short of that. If we look back, maybe Joe Clark was ahead of his time in 79

Please answer all three questions based on the most recent performance of the 3 National Parties in power and the performances of the Leaders. THere is plenty of room for comment, as we all know there has been no runaway poll, showing that their is a failing to impress the voters. Diagnose the problems, is it the leader or the party, that is preventing a breakthrough.

You have to find new voters somewhere. If 50% of the Earthlings aren't voting, then using new R&D to find extra terrestrial voters is a noble cause .

Prentice has made a prudent move. A precedent setting move according to the papers. The NDP appear to be all over this file and I would guess that if this is revisted they will continue to spolight the issue, regardless of whether the Country is in deficit, or the Liberals or the Cons are in power. If people start to view our technology leaving in this fashion like, the Avro Aero has been missed over the last 40 years, then a move to let it go, could turn out tol be a Diefenbaker like achievement.

And then....

The Liberals backed down on the immigration bill.

I know that for most of us, staying on topic can be a difficult exercise in a long thread. But I too get frustrated when a topic is hijacked and off topic, particularly if the "new" discussion could have warranted a thread of its own. Regardless, I think even the General Population, no matter how little they follow what is going on, on the hill, are starting to realize how little the Liberals are acting as an Official Opposition, or more importantly, effecting Good Government, and how much of what they are doing is strategising what to do to get back in power. The Latter should always be done, but not at the expense of the Former.

I was unaware of that quote. Of course he wasn't talking about Dryden So you could be right about it being PMPM

For one thing, the Federal Liberals Cuts under Martin were harsher then any under the Current Conservative Government. (They can't because they have already blown the bank with Corporate Giveaways and weak economic policy) Regardless.... Many of those "have nots" who do vote, vote Conservative. Many Have Nots whom you cite as receiving handouts haven't a clue where the money comes from, or understand that Political Parties represent different values. They are simply viewed as political liars who will do what they want. The view held is no different then the majority of working middle class people. The vast number of whom don't vote and don't believe in any of the partys. It is only the "Conservative" activist who believes this clap trap. The most active people looking for handouts from government are closely tied to the government regardless of the party in power. The Liberals and Conservatives have master this concept, but not as well as those whom know how to take advantage of the Government in Power. Well, this line written above comes from the Liberal Playbook. Infact, from the vast majority of Conservatives that I know, they would completely disregard your statement as pure socialist welfare and not Conservativism at all. What you have written above is a socialist viewpoint, one that was adopted by all Political Parties nearly 100 years ago and most of which was adopted as policy after the Great Depression and WW2. If you should think that the Conservatives have a monopoly viewpoint on the statement above, you are incorrect.

I don't think enough people know or understand the Holocaust and with more and more WW2 vets passing on, what they discovered is being forgotten or lost in context. It does trouble me when CPC voters say things like..... Hitler had some great ideas...... or they had it coming to them, or even believing that Jews ran Germany, when you can see during certain periods they were heavily ghettoised. It will take Jews to remind us of what happened, and I take note of how you mention the others who were terminated....those who were not Jews, but where weak or different, like mentally/physically challenged, Twins, or of other ethnic non Arayan identity. All Leaders must remember and recognise that this should never happen again. Not Just Stephen Harper. As we all know, no one is immune to turning a blind eye to attrocity. Clinton and Chretian did nothing while Rawanda was in a premeditated Genocidial Endeavour. I don't know if Stephen Harper should get super credit for doing something of such standard fare. It sounds like a parent who says.... "I take care of my kids", shouldn't that go without saying? The real proof will happen when a Genocide is in the makings and what Action Our Prime Minister Takes to prevent a new Ethnic Genocide.

The GP should run on its own merits and win. The fact that there are multiple parties, more then 2 should be an advantage to the GPs getting a seat. The Progressives, Communists, Social Credit, CCF, etc, have all been able to win a seat. It has been nearly 30 years, and perhaps the GP time will come in one riding or another. For instance.... Jack Layton ran against a very popular Liberal Cabinet Minister as a new leader of the NDP. He took on his strong opponent in a Province where the NDP were not popular, after the Rae Fiasco as a Premier. He took on this opponent in a General Election and he Won. Very difficult to achieve. Elizabeth May, ran in London, with the Issue on her side, (Environment) in a Bi Election, against a weak Liberal Parachute Candidate who just lost his seat to an NDP hopeful. With it being a by election and all the odds in her favour, she came up very very short. While spin doctors and media played up her results, really they are not that impressive. It just wasn't time yet, and the impact may be a generation or an election or two away. It could also completely collapse. (Such is politics) But why a party with no seats in nearly 30 years should ask two parties to step aside for them is just absurd. Besides it is also rude to the voters, not to let them judge who would be best to serve their riding. I understand why the GP want to have people step aside for them, it is their strategy. And Dion, was weak enough to even play the game. Why doesn't the GP ask the BQ to step aside? Opps...... off topic, this a a Provincial forum Why doesn't the GP ask the PQ or the ADQ to step aside? Whew??? The Social Credit, Canada Action Party, and Many others would probably like the GP/Libs/NDP and even the CONS to step aside too. Perhaps the Wild Rose Alliance, which has done better then the GP and even held a seat and has only been around a short time, should they ask the GP to step aside? And as for the Libs and NDP joining the GP???? This is a very strange proposition. If you call the NDP and Libs Leftwing, (I don't) then why wouldn't the weakest group the GPs join the Libs... the Strongest? And while their is leftwing elements in the GP, essentially their structure is more suited to wealthy conservative minded individuals... so why wouldn'tyou want the Cons to join???? Obviously, this is a thread, heavily off topic, with nothing to say about Flaherty or Mcguinty and the situation of Ontario economics, which often occurs when someone posts about the GP needing help from other parties. Back on the subject. Flaherty And McGuinty are two very different individuals.... and by speaking out of turn, and not supported by Harper, he has mistakenly given Dalton the edge. Choosing an Electoral system is neither a Right or Left Proposition. In Ontario, without the need for party affliation, the chance to select proportional representation was soundly defeated by the majority of the voters. On top of that, so few people bothered to vote.. barely 51%... shows that Proportional Representation isn't going to bring more people to the polls. If 49% of the people don't bother to vote, and don't bother to show up to support a change to the electoral system, then proportional representation isn't the solution to declining voter interest. Proportional Representation in Ontario would have greatly benefitted the ONDP for the last decade, but they are still able to win seats by the skin of their teeth in many ridings against formidable Liberal and Conservative Opponents. Regional Voting, creating a BLOCK was successful for the BQ and the Reform Party. These grew out of failed Conservative governments. Same with the Sask Party. But, regional voting will only get you so far, the limitations indicate that the Regional Interests are declining in Quebec, as both the CPC and the NDP are cutting a swath through the former Liberal/BQ Federalist/Regional conflict. The Reform Party knew it has to expand past its regional bloc. They came from Conservatives, Progressives and have rejoined and led the Conservative Party, to create abigger tent. How different would Canada be with Proportional Rep? Well perhaps there would forever be a BQ representation. .. but with 1st Past the Post and a small margin of voter change, the BQ can be reduced from a Formidable Block into a helpless Rump. But Alas...... What has this got to do with Flaherty, McGuinty or Ontario.... Especially since Ontario Voters, Not Parties, rejected Proportional Rep.