madmax

How many people who voted that Mulroney did nothing wrong, still hold that opinion today? Anyone have 2nd thoughts?

Are people here paid to spread propoganda and spin a bad story?

Sure would be quiet

Not this again. Remember in 2004 when Stephen Harper made statements similar to Paul Martin being a supporter of Child Porn. The Conservative Majority vapourized. Harper verified that he was a scary guy. And the election lost. I hope this isn't a tactic to be used in the future. Just puts voters off.

Queue fake outrage. The horror, the horror.

I have one. Economists are not highly thought of at the best of times. One is Degree in that is enough, but you better have something to go with it. Suzuki is something I drive.

Your comments are what occurs under all circumstances, so I don't understand your rant. You sound like some government sources I have met, who want to retrain an ex worker to be a nurse. Sounds good on paper, until by the time the training is done the person could well be in the nursing home. We have to be realistic about what the possibilities are with regards to retraining. Just like your comments about moving. Today, many couples have to make the decision to stay in Ontario or Move to Greener pastures. To pick up and leave a 55 years of age is rather daunting to some, and convincing ones 50 year old wife who has a career in the Province to Move is often a recipe for marital breakdown. I am using these ages, because people involved in manufacturing often have 25 years of experience or more behind them. These are all transferable skills so there is little reason to worry about getting work. Age discrimination performed by screening agencies often proves to be a barrier. Governments should help people when companies use the bankruptcy laws as a way to mask a planned closure. Often people have their pensions, benefits, and monies stolen from them legally. The government does nothing and often gives these companies tax cuts and technology grants which the monies and saving are used in foreign countries. As this is a common trend in Ontario, you would think the governments would do something, or people would be outraged to see their tax dollars shipped off to China or Southern US, while the province is caught with retraining costs and Service Canada pays out the EI. But as EI is awash in Cash, I don't think the feds are thinking about anything other then the factual information that the economy is growing that employment is being created. But stats show that the largest employment growth is in the public sector. YIKES!!! Replacing a Manufacturing Plant with a warehouse will always have a net loss in jobs. There really isn't much that technology can't to outside of Canada. But if we don't address the methods that companies and countries take advantage of our wimpy and lenient ways, then we are the weaklings you speak about. Our Federal Government is WEAK!!! I tend to agree with Lou Dobbs and his take on Shipping jobs off to China. We need people in our news media to speak out like he does on this issue.

Foreign Trade is just a new technology......???? I have a degree thank you very much. You might want to explain your comment above before I start to laugh.

Which country in the G8 didn't have an industrial base? Perhaps there were other reasons to include these countries and it has nothing to do with industrial manufacturing.

That was a great trade deal for Canada, and being a Canadian I am all for good trade deals. It did have its drawbacks, in that our multi vehicle facilities and design and managerial facilities took a back seat to the US. Canada had a problem of importing more parts for our facilities, and thus our auto ran a trade deficit. With the creation of the Auto Pact, we ran a trade surplus. Good for us, to bad it is gone now. You win. BTW US Automakers sent word to their suppliers to relocate to China a few years ago. So enjoy. Of course the base existed. It existed differently. The Auto Pact only ran from 1965 until watered down in NAFTA and finally erradicated by the WTO. What do you think Canadians Did from 1907 till 1965? Ride Horses? Canada was a significant industrial power, and their are cities with a quite an industrial heritage. You can thank Sir John A for putting together the nuts and bolts to make it work, and Brian Mulroney for tearing it apart. As for Banking, you wanna hear, bloody murder, let some of these financial and insurance institutions face US competition here. They would go the way of Canadian Manufacturing in a heartbeat. But that is fantasy, for the people who have been losing their jobs recently, they are facing a new reality.

Strange line of questioning. Hong Kong was leased to Britain/UK for the last 100 years. (Lucky for them) This isn't about denying other countries an industrial base. China had an industrial base, prior to the NORTH AMERICAN investment and the quick transistion to move production from NORTH AMERICA to CHINA. Capital has the right to be invested where ever it so chooses and if companies plan to close profitable operations in Canada and move them to China, that is there business. But I do not find that this is good for people in the country who are affected by this significant shift. More plant closures occurred in the last 4 years under the Liberal Government then in any time prior to the last 30 years that I have looked at, and that includes some huge industrial movement in the 90s and the 70s. Having seen Canadian Companies that were profitable purchased by Larger US firms and moved either to the states or China, I cannot see how this is better for us. The trend has been to buy the company and shut it down in a couple years. This includes beef packing plants. The next trend will be to get our water supply, and instead of bottling the product here, bottle it south of the border. Quiet frankly, there are those who are for this kind of structural change. I am not one of them.

I find Harper irritating. Can't trust a position he takes or a word he says. But that is peoples normal view of a politician. What I find irratating is that he doesn't understand his role as Prime Minister. He shouldn't be the one taking cheap shots or making outlandish statements. He knows he is Prime Minister but still behaves like an opposition member. I understand you found Tilson to be nasty, but was his questioning poor? There are people that appear nasty, but are really being thorough. He was not being mean. I want all politicians to take their job seriously and get beyond the political posturing. A nice politician, and many politicians are nice, may perform poorly in committees and in the house. John Baird knows how to repeat the party line, under constant questioning. I haven't liked him in the past, but I must say, part of being a politician is staying on message and getting out to the public what the party position is. Comparing him to his predecessor, I would say, he has managed to say the government position without having to fall on his sword. All media is good media for a politician and sometimes they have to be irratating to be heard. Now that you have started this thread, you might want to create a poll.

Canada has lost more jobs to relocation vs technology over the past 10 years. When the technology upgrades and then moves to another country, you lose it all. It is very possible for a Canadian Based Company to produce a good and compete against foreign competition and drive a profit. But it is better to relocate and make more money. For every technological gain, these gains are not specific to just Canada. China has been the largest beneficiary of technological change, and yes they are losing jobs to the technology. Your statement is accurate regarding technology, but that isn't what this is about. People have always lost their jobs through technological improvements. Plants are relocating and for someone living in Canada, there is little that can be done about it.

I was speaking with regards to G8 countries. Hong Kong is now controlled by China and is Part of China.

People buy items made in Canada without knowing it. In the 80s people would laugh about anything made here, say it was crap, and really struggle to find what was made here. Since that time period and the introduction of two free trade agreements and globalization, it amazes me how many things were still being made here as little as 4 years ago. However, a decision to close a plant usually is made with 2 years planning, it is clear that the attraction of manufacturing in foreign markets was far to enticing to ignore. Less then 4 years ago, people didn't look to see if their fridges/washing machines etc where made in Canada. They just bought them. Same as portable coolers in Canadian Tire. People were making them here and their companies were making profits. However, boardroom decisions to large profits mean that these Canadian Operations Close. Now people buy these items, and there is no way they can be made in Canada because there aren't any manufacturers left as far as I am aware. Ironically you will see some CAW chap with a bumper sticker that says, "LOST YOUR JOB YET, STOP BUYING FOREIGN", which is missing the point. It is the manufacturers leaving, it wasn't about consumer choice. Unless you want to highlight I saw this car at WALMART. Manufacturers Leaving and setting up shop in foreign markets are those that the CAW work in, and it has nothing to do with what they produce. They are leaving and they have access to our market, with the trade deals. There is no need to build here. Other foreign manufacturers like Honda, Toyota, etc, build their cars here. They aren't in a rush to relocate, regardless of economic pressure, because the investment here is relatively recent. They have access to the US market, which they fear they may lose if the US becomes protectionist. Chinas Currency must be floated. BTW not everything China makes is crap. They have a skilled workforce, high level technical investment and an Engineer can be had for as little as $300 per month.

Countries in the G8 Without an industrial base, soon find themselves outside the G8. There is little positive for the people of Canada, who find themselves dependent upon foreign produced goods, foreign produced food, and exported raw resources with no value add component. My advice to people is to get into finance and business and think about money, not what is good for the country. What is happening is not good! Of course, the Provincial Liberals In Ontario denied there was any problem in the years prior to the election and during the election campaign. They are useless (I Know put this in the Provincial Thread), and only now do I see the look of fear on the face of the minister in charge. I am shocked she was re elected. What is also problematic for those who are concerned, is that the Federal Conservatives could care less. Meanwhile even the BQ tries to highlight the situation, and the Federal Liberals Sit on their hands come voting time on a motion, because they are afraid it could lead to an election, which is hogwash. Politics and spin are going to get in the way of what needs to be done.

John Tory has run such a disaster of a campaign he will be lucky to vote on anything because he probably won't even win his own seat. He has been wrong, finally admitted he was wrong. Bowed to the polls, showed no conviction of anything and worst of all, he has let the Liberals off the hook for being virtually useless in government and not fullfilling their promises. He could have hammered them but he wanted to make the issues about himself and faith based schools. A complete non starter. Perhaps now, in the last couple days, he can start talking about McGuinty. Howard Hampton told the media to WAKE UP, McGuinty's getting a free ride because of Torys poor campaign. It has definitely been a disaster and someone has to hold McGuinty Accountable.

What riding are you in? I wouldn't support faith based school funding. I can't see it doing us any favours, but splitting us up more.

I have every reason to believe Bills Persistance is going to pay off/

The Liberals are full of new promises and a pony too. What the Liberals really didn't want to do was address Labour Day. They did that effectively by having people talk about something they voted down only to say they think it is a really good idea now. Glad they thought of it. What kind of pony would you like.

Are you talking about Public or Private education?

I have to wonder what the scheme was behind giving a cricket society $1 million dollars when they only asked for $150,000. Since there was no real tracking mechanism for the first $150,000 I have to know what impulse was behind the decision to say hey, what's up, you only asked for a 150Grand, here's a Million. Was this a kickback scheme for the Liberals? Were they to bankroll this money and use it to fund the Liberal Fall election Campaign? It doesn't make any sense. I wouldn't mind asking for some money for my racing program, and probably would get it if I had a Liberal Membership Card. I am now hearing that some of the ethnic groups that are to have received money are wondering who these people are that claim to be leaders in their community. I know the Liberals were caught by the Opposition and the Auditor, but I have to wonder if this is criminal activity similar to what occured in Quebec.

That is an opinion that I share.

Funding Religious Schools is Bad Policy. John Tory is wrong, I find nothing Conservative in this vision.

John Tory is Wrong!!! He is behaving like a pandering liberal. Oh wait, don't the Liberals give money to cricket clubs? I disagree with Tory, he is wrong to fund religious schools. I don't trust McGuinty for a second. One public system is the best direction.