myata

Maga world is based on hate: really it's the only notion that can unite them. Just try it, it comes out in the second sentence if not first, fk, hate, anathema. So there are only two possible states of this world: they quietly, in their corners and basements hate their own thing (and themselves, how else); or else they find a conductor, orchestrator who will throw them objects, names and taglines of hate and then united in it, they feel united and elated. It's only and one essence is pure hate and as the ring in the story it cannot be put to any good use. It's just the opposite of it, as far and principal as can be.

No I don't want to discredit anybody. But we cannot deny objective facts, the reality either. So what's the out, where? I think there's only one option: for CPC to look at itself, objectively and honestly; see and admit what went wrong. Understand that the path of division, rage and hate doesn't get them to any good ending, cannot do that. On that path, they will either keep losing time after time because it's a losing path. Or else, they'll become maga and cease to be a normal party. No wins, on that path. Only reason and logic.

That would be trying to deny the reality and it's never a great idea, in the long run for obvious reasons. 1. Republicans are maga now, they gave in and were completely consumed by it. An objective fact that cannot be denied. 2. Canadian CPC is exhibiting the same worrying trends and traits as were observed in the Republican party at the time it was playing with and eventually, consumed by maga.

Look the evidence just keeps adding up. And the best thing, completely free!

Maga operates by assigning hate tags. Hate word + name. That's all, the only information it carries and passes. Hate them worship him. And this is why it's impossible to have any meaningful discussion with it. Take it out far and safe away from your home. Don't hesitate don't delay it or you will regret. Some do right now.

What one is supposed to say in these cases? I'm lost. OK. If in some distorted version of this world "presenting factual and logical arguments" means "demonization" I hope I was able to offer a strong and convincing demonization without major factual and/or logical flaws.

There's nothing to comment here: 0.00% thought and meaning. Either whatever we do is right and perfect or someone is trying to demonize us. Can't be proven wrong ever and in principle. QED: maga.

Whatever the origin, you're making a good point on the limitations of this grossly outdated and inadequate in this age binary political system. When some people are bored to death with the default, only and forever choices they are driven to experiment with increasingly crazy ones, and all the way to maga. In a sane political system, they would just create their own political stream. If it reflected the views and priorities of a layer, fraction of the society they would gain representation and attempt to implement their plans and projects in the full view of the society. If not, it would wither out. Instead, it breeds in the shadows then attacks and takes over one of the default players with catastrophic consequences for the society (Brexit, U.S.)

That would be the dilemma of a) a modern parliamentary party or b) maga-style power hungry authoritarian cult. Eventually but not too far from here. As clear and polar contrast as can be.

This is what comes obvious: maga and its sore converts are dumb, hopelessly and desperately. That one quality defines it, and them fully and completely. The only concept they can grasp (one and only) is "we rule" and "we do it by forcing everyone else obey and then worship us". Swearing, obscenities, personal attacks all has immediate and obvious explanation: having failed to explain and sell one, the only premise they understand they resort to uncontrolled, destructive rage. Like an ape, etc you name it. Maga has no place in democracy. It's an antithesis and adversary of it. Grown up democracies must see it for what it is and develop effective defenses against it.

Well you see? The problem is always the same and it's never, ever shy of its bold in your face stupidity.

Betting on the discarded message would only lock the party firmly in the past: Irish Times

They may not be Nazi as of now. But they are using the same, 100% playbook and program as them to get to the power. Lying fascist propaganda deafening all common sense, reason and independent thought in the society.

The loser won't stop at one and two. OK. Looks like Canadian Conservatives will have more pressing matter than public governance for the next few cycles. To figure out who they are, do they have any substance, intelligible message and cause; and could they, even try, to find a normal, respectable leader. One and two. That would be a tall and long order, looking at their condition these days.

He obviously never heard of Nazi regime. Knowledge, information, memory, brain - but why? 4 billion years of evolution, wasted.

To put it simply and succinctly, maga is a political technology of principle-less antidemocratic populism that combines fascist-style massive propaganda with modern channels of spreading the message into the population. It works as this: - Appoint an unconditional diabolical and hellish adversary, then the enemy. There's nothing good about them and no understanding and/or compromises are possible - Fan out hatred and raise the temperature by drumming half-lies, groundless allegations and far-reaching allusions - Avoid and denounce any notion of responsibility, or relation to the reality - Use massive financing of private capital to amplify and spread the message - Promise instant solutions and miracles without any regard for the reality This is maga and it always works the same, trying to undermine and destroy an imperfect but functioning democracy without offering any positive and feasible ideas and ways to improve it. Maga is about destruction and power, power and destruction only and it has no other intent and doesn't understand any other purposes of democratic politics. Maga can try to blend into democratic political process but it's not a part of democracy and in fact, anti-democracy. Maga is a real, present and factual threat to democracies. They need to develop means and instruments to defend themselves against maga. Not in the least in these domains: - Veracity and objectivity of political news. Tight control of foreign ownership. Responsibility for spreading biased false messages. - Strong and immediate prevention of anti-democratic authoritarian tactics and practices, such as threats, intimidation, vandalism, public messages of hate with responsibility up to the level of the party if its leadership fails to denounce and restrict such practices. - Illegal practices, conspiracies to undermine democracy should carry heavy sanctions including fines, prohibition to take public office, etc.

Step in fkg step, like a perfect record. Do we know where it ends? A word to thoughtful Conservatives: this isn't about conservatism, values and principles. This is about democracy and cultism, authoritarianism of the worst, grotesque kind. Yes these days no guessing is needed, we know very well where it ends. You cannot play these games and remain yourself, keep your dignity, independence and even basic self-respect. Leadership review will the the last point to make this decision. If maga converts are already the majority it cannot be saved. Leaving it to decay and rot would be the only sane, rational choice. Yes, you know it. Zero news and surprises.

This is of course, the point. If the party keeps him, it's no longer a normal parliamentary party, but an idol worship club. Any Conservative having reservations and doubts about it has no outs these days: the result, the outcome is playing out right before our eyes. There will be no magical fixes and cures, everything will go down the drain: dignity, self-respect, integrity, principles, loyalty to the country. Everything. This is the defining point: either the party ditches this stuff; or you cannot stay in it and respect yourself. Pick one: with no excuses and in full knowledge.

Will CPC turn another maga-republican shameful and spineless idol cult? The answer is playing out right before our eyes.

Integrity of Conservative party is disintegrating in real time. Defeated fairly and squarely in his own "safe" riding he just moves to another one. Supposedly "representatives of the people" quietly acquiesce. There's nothing normal about it. Integrity and independence of Conservative MP is heading down the drain. Another step down toward maga.

No small lying tongues will twist away this dilemma for Conservatives today that came up to stand clear in their path going forward: drop and denounce the divisive, reality-diminishing tactics of the maple maga bunch; quite possibly, ditch it in the process too. Or become homegrown incarnation of maga, with all the grotesque and insane features and attribute. Their choice. And it'll totally define what they will be and/or become going forward.

This is what's wrong with this distorted and convoluted version of conservatism today: it just doesn't get, and won't recognize the objective reality. Either it gets its way; or it'll go down bitter and hateful of the reality. There are just no good ends to that story. And Poiliever has drawn himself into it. Now Conservatives have a simple, strait choice: to remain in the reality, a part of it; or go down the maga cesspool. All the way. Once the process begins, there aren't any stops on the way.

The turning point is right here: Conservatives have no reason to keep not only Poilievre but his group and style of U.S. style aggressive, personal, anything goes politics. This is the key deciding issue and point. They can decide to drop it and come back to being a normal Canadian political party. Or hang on to it and become Canadian version of the maga cult. This is the choice and the options are as clear and contrasted as they come. They point in exact opposite directions, and futures.

All the $$$ they lost.. could have been put to good use. Oh well.

There's nothing wrong with that of course. All are great topics for a thoughtful and meaningful conversation, a dialog. Except... someone already tried to sneak in an assumption, or proposition to start it from. Did you notice it? has it been proven? What's the point in spreading unproven venting? Are these all of the avenues, or social security, solidarity, safety, compassion could also have something with countries being back on track? The problem seems to be, Conservatives in their present day condition and state forgot how to keep meaningful, intelligent and respectful conversations. Someone teased them with US-style, "anything goes to get to the power" and having lost three in a row they just couldn't resist it. But from the drama that's playing out right before our eyes we know for certain that it doesn't, won't stop there. No it'll slide and drop to full-out complete maga. Why would it stop, how, if they already decided and chose to drop down all reservations and guards? This is the question that is before Conservatives now. Once you figure it out, welcome back to the discussion of policies.