Signals.Cpl

its easy to call it silly when its not aimed at you, but slow and steady wins the race, what to say that small changes over 20 or 30 years don't bring about a major change? Ok great, and you simultaneously make 20%+ of Canadians 2nd rate citizens because suddenly my citizenship doesn't mean quite the same thing as your citizenship. What do you do with Canadian born real citizens who commit acts of terror? How can you expect individuals like me to remain loyal to a country that treats me and my family as second rate citizens? You might find it "silly" but its not a major jump between terrorism and other major crimes, just replace spying and terrorism in your argument with say rape and murder I mean I'm neither a rapist or murderer so I shouldn't worry right? Why not save canadian money by stripping them of their citizenship and send them on their way? It seems to me that individuals like you want to pretend to solve a problem rather than solve the problems... if you want to solve this problem be more selective during the immigration process, make tougher requirements to BECOME a citizen and make adequate laws and punishments for terrorism, spying, treason etc... for all rather having a punishment for citizens and another punishment for "citizens".

How so? If I'm not mistaking the US is purchasing all 3 variants for the 3 different services that would use them, we are getting the same aircraft as the USAF. $4 Billion more per plane? Dont you think it would be significantly better if we can land a RCAF plane on a USAF base to be repaired, refuelled, rearmed etc? Seeing as if we deploy the aircraft chances are it will be alongside our NATO partners and wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and safer to be serviced by any of those nations?

How hard would it be to go further down that road? Are you a spy, a terrorist, did you murder someone, did you commit fraud etc... where do you stop? Speeding tickets? Oh well he is accused of being a terrorist so take his citizenship away. And if I forfeit my second citizenship am I your equal or am I still a 2nd rate citizen? If you want to avoid spy/terrorist/citizen of convenience then by all means tackle that problem during the immigration/permanent residency stage, not after when they are citizens. How can you expect to have a group of individuals who make up a sizeable portion of the population to be productive individuals if they are considered a second class citizen? Where would you draw the line? Born in Canada or would you have to be 3rd or 4th generation to be truly Canadian? I mean Khadr is Canadian born, is he better than me simply because he was born in Canada without regard to actions? I'm pretty sure I have been significantly more productive citizen than him yet I would be inferior to him...

Oh really? So you are telling me what my citizenship means to me? Gee thanx...

Right now? Nothing is required other than reaching a certain age. I would like students to get civics lessons, as well as immigrants as part of their citizenship process to also get civics classes in order to introduce them to the system and make them functioning citizens with regards to elections, voting and the like. So why not make the voting age 30 or 40? I mean really then we should see 100% turnout since voters would "value" their vote... why would we treat an 18 year old as an adult and let them go to war or serve prison time as an adult but when it comes to politics they are not old enough? What kind of effort does it take for an individual to get the right to vote? To get a driver licence you need to reach a certain age, meet time in licence requirements and pass a test, to join the military you need to reach a certain age, pass a number of tests and compete with others for that position whereas to vote you need to reach a certain age... not much effort there. An informed 18 year old beats an uninformed 21 year old any day of the week.

But it doesn't mean that we should give them licence at 21 either. We are not talking about something that has high requirements in order for you to do, all you are saying is that we should postpone by 2 or 3 years which does nothing.

Read about the civilian casualties in the battles for Saipan and Okinawa during World War Two and tell me what more do you need?

Sure they are, some government take even what is considered a basic human away from their people while others like those in Canada don't. Ultimately there are no such things as human rights, its human privilege basically some get it and others don't and it is up to individual nations to grant or take away those human rights.

I'm not talking about interests, I'm talking about education. Most 30 year olds don't have the same interest in politics as I do or as they should so what do we chalk that off to? I'm not even arguing for 16 year olds to get the vote, my position is that kids should get civics classes from the first day they enter high school if not earlier, saying they have no interest and then taking away their right to vote until they are 21 does not solve anything but postpone the same uninformed and uninterested voters from voting at an earlier age. If we want our political system to flourish we need to educate young people because they are the future of the country, if they remain uninformed and uninterested in later life then our system starts to breakdown with fewer and fewer people voting and thus controlling the government or massive numbers of those uninformed and uninterested voters will vote based on the way the politician looks compared to their opponent or the ridiculous and unrealistic promises they make.

If you notice that the lower the age group, the lower the voter turnout so we can assume that they are immature and un-interested or we can look at the education system and ask ourselves we are doing something different now than 10, 20 or 50 years ago. Show 15 and 16 year olds that their votes matter, more importantly their life and prosperity depend on that vote and its proper use and they may just go and vote when they get the chance. If kids get half a credit in civics and mandatory history in Grade 10 only, why are we so surprised when they show no interest in the democratic process when few of them have been exposed to that process throughout their time in school?

I would actually go further.

Postponing the right to vote for a few years would do nothing to improve voter turnout, what could potentially improve voter turn out is starting from the first year of high school kids are given civics classes with the express goal to educate them and encourage them to participate.

And what would that do? Instead of trying to engage those young voters and encourage their participation and education in the importance of voting we would just prevent the few willing to vote from doing so?

So you mean that Spain an Portugal can make idiotic laws and execute muslims because of something that happened 1300 years ago? If its ok for Sudan to do it, then why not Spain, Portugal or France?

And what do we gain if we become a participant? Ultimately we lose the conventional capabilities in favour of gaining a nuclear capability that gives us no added strengths but multiplies our weaknesses. Us getting nukes does nothing to the balance of power, if nukes are needed as a threat the US has more than enough and us getting ten twenty or even 100 more would do nothing to change the balance of power either direction whereas right now our conventional forces are capable at a higher level than their numbers might suggest. Soldiers, sailors and airmen serve a purpose to protect Canada from a multitude of threats whereas nukes do not protect us but the drain on our resources weakens us from being able to respond to any and all other threats without giving us any new capabilities.

Well look at that, I am wrong and you are right... but how are we ignorant? You went through a dozen or more pieces of "evidence" to support your argument until you finally found one to support it.

It seems to me that you are not capable of any actual discussion because of your blind hatred for the US, this is pretty evident when you cite individuals who are responsible for millions of deaths between themselves yet you project them as holy. What I need to do is stop reading your posts because they are giving me a headache... Really the people wished it? So whats with all the Russian special forces that invaded the region? Kinda hard to say I don't like you if you have a gun to my head and are not afraid to use it. I mean what could go wrong when you have armed troops in the country, close down all external modes of travel to and from the territory except through Moscow, block observers from well observing and having turnout rate of less than 50% with just over 50% of those voters MAYBE voting for union with Russia... I mean its decisive right? So you would ignore one wrong because you want to point out another wrong? Gee like that logic... Peter's crime is irrelevant because Paul is committing a crime... No, I do see US aggression, I also see aggression from all other major powers that exist now, and I see the same behaviour all through history in major powers. If the US disappeared tomorrow the world most definitely would not be a better place because Putin and those like him will take over, and they will be so much worse... How are they worse?

Iran-Iraq war, gassing the Kurds and many many other things... gee he was your average mother Theresa. Its not like the Russians just invaded Ukraine and annexed one of their provinces and are sending special forces to make trouble in others... oh wait yes they are... And that's just the tip, if I thought for a moment that you were interested in learning anything I would continue, but I doubt you want to or are capable of learning with regards to history or current affairs.

Did you just compare Canada to Nazi Germany, the US to Nazi Germany or both? Oh my, can you wait until I get some pop corn before we continue with the "history" lesson or the "historical comparison"?

No, this is not a personal attack, I just think you need new repertoire. I didn't mean to offend your sensibilities, I was just pointing out that the song and dance gets boring since its always the same and it seems irrelevant to you how relevant your repertoire is to the topic on hand...

This proves absolutely nothing about what you are trying to say, this is their lawyer saying they did not know AT their 2nd degree murder trial, which means that the argument is made after the decision was made for it to BE a 2nd degree murder trial... what it says is that they did not know he was a cop it does not mean it had any effect on the jury's decision if it was even the jury's decision as to 1st degree or 2nd degree... and I'm glad you see reason for once and abandon the ridiculous position since your "evidence" does not seem to support your argument...

Oh but it is, you don't seem to have any other topic to discuss than the US. You are a one trick pony and even that trick is so incoherent that its actually sad... not even funny. You hijack every thread for your rants and I feel rather sad for your lack of abilities to discuss anything other than how evil the US is and how angelic the Taliban are.

So you brought it up as "proof", it doesn't prove a thing, and then you expect me to do research for your "proof"? Love it...

Did your wife/husband leave you for an American?

Nice comeback...I'll make sure to use shorter words next time, might even add some pictures.