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Yes, you are ignoring it. I responded to your points and they have just as much weight in my saying so as yours did with you just saying so. You can't actually engage on the facts, so instead you want to play another logical fallacy game of trying to impugn my authority. Facts are facts, logic is logic, good argument is good argument. I don't have to be anyone special. Besides, you have already shown here you completely disregard what experts say anyhow. Here you go, again:

It is not his mess if Iran chooses to retaliate against global shipping, and if you are going to cry about it, then pony up and do something. Go protect your interests.

Interesting. If that were true, why did you ignorantly and falsely claim I was only citing the headline? Nope, I never made any such claim about the "entire" program. Listen, I will give you the benefit of the doubt here that you are just too stupid to keep track of who you are talking to on this one and not chop it up to your usual dishonesty. Except that this was not part of their normal housing program; it was part of the 2 billion trees program, as I have repeatedly provided evidence for. Quoted directly from the article you claimed to have read and used yourself. Quote that part. Let's see where it says that. Nope, I was quite clear: Typical pathetic Beaver response. You accused me of only using the headline. I show you that I, in fact, quoted from the article. Instead of responding to that and admitting you were wrong, you change the subject.

I already pointed this out several times now, you keep ignoring it. Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated? Yes, and millions were still unvaccinated. A large chunk. That mass vaccination did not happen overnight either. Now? Yes... and now COVID is hardly a concern at all anymore. They had not in 2021 - 2023. They still have not. Again, you keep making up crap I did not say. I never said anything about "we should not expect deaths to go down" or that "we should expect them to go up" I merely explained why they went up and how it is not logical to simply presume they would go down, or should have, as you argued.

Now you are playing the dumb percentage vs total game that I repeatedly had to call out West for. How many total deaths in Canada were there each year? And how does that compare to that "tiny %" of unvaccinated people? Only 20,000 died in 2022 in Canada. There were still millions unvaccinated. So yeah, they can still account for that many deaths.

COVID-19 Mortality Update — United States, 2022 COVID-19 was associated with approximately 244,000 deaths in the United States during January–December 2022. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7218a4.htm The age-adjusted COVID-19 death rate declined 47% compared with 2021. As in 2020 and 2021, most COVID-19 deaths occurred in a hospital inpatient setting, but an increasing percentage occurred in the decedent’s home or a nursing home or long-term care facility.

I made a statement based on the facts. You saying it goes against epidemiology, vaccinology and immunology doesn't make it so. I have provided just as much, if not more, than you have in this discussion so far.

Yes, deaths went up. The unvaccinated continued to die. The pandemic and COVID continued as the virus mutated. Mass vaccination was not achieved overnight; it took time. Covid deaths went up and down with waves of the virus, but they did not increase year over year, deaths did start to decline. In Canada they were down in 2023 and in the US they were down in 2022. I am saying nothing about "years" later until now, just above, that shows deaths were gown down by 2023. I have shown just as much "work" here as you have. No, you keep ignoring the whole argument, notice how you put the ... there. Yes, this is a battle of logic. You offered nothing more than an illogical statement and I countered it.

Show my work on what? It is not a math problem. It was a logical statement based on the facts. I am glad you are finally relenting from your repeated made-up crap that I never said. I did: Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated? I also responded to your reasons:

No, I said: Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated?

No, I do not, I have said no such thing. Show me the quote of where I said that. You can't. You keep making it up. What I said was: Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated?

I did not ask for any court case; I asked you to back up your claim that there was one that used your logic to win. Let's see it.

Once again, that has not been nor ever was my argument. I have corrected you twice before now. The fact that you have to keep making up crap to argue against only further shows the weakness of your position here. Why do you keep posting crap about autism? The discussion is not about autism. Well, feel free to show that then. You have not so far.

This current discussion was not about: -Forcing Pfizer to release its trial data 🚫 -Vaccines causing autism 🚫 What the discussion was about: -Your awful logic of saying that deaths should have immediately gone down after the COVID vaccine to levels before the Pandemic ✅

Dude, this is some copy-paste shit making the rounds on the left-wing social media. Link to where the Senator said this, posted it, shared it... You can't. You just mindlessly spam this forum with copy-paste shit. You run like a pathetic, sniveling little coward of a man when your shit gets called out.

Typical pathetic Beaver response. You accused me of only using the headline. I show you that I, in fact, quoted from the article. Instead of responding to that and admitting you were wrong, you change the subject. Also, you tried to claim that these trees were just normal landscaping and not part of the 2 billion trees, when it was, I showed you it was, so instead you argue some irrelevant point that 14,500 trees is not 2 billion. Once again your prove how pathetically dishonest you are willing to be to avoid admitting you were wrong. All that is left now is for you to run away and then bring this up months later like you won the argument and frame it dishonestly again.

You just gonna ignore this? Figures...

Yet again, you keep using these words like "make" or "should," which are things I have not said. You completely ignored what I said: Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated?

What do you mean, put my beliefs on the line against a lawyer? I am stating facts and basic logic right here, right now. These are not talking points, just basic facts. If you have a court case you want to reference, then let's see it.

No, not my argument at all. Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated? Not only do I have a clue as to what I am talking about, but I also understand basic logic here. You want to run away because you are being called out.

Yes, they can show vaccines reduced both severe illness and death FOR THOSE WHO WERE VACCINATED There are so many studies on this I could post them all day long. "After weighting for demographic factors and 41 underlying health conditions, the researchers found that vaccinated adults had a 74% lower risk of death from severe COVID and a 25% lower risk of all-cause mortality. Further analysis showed that vaccinated people consistently had a lower risk of death, regardless of the cause. Mortality was 29% lower within 6 months for vaccinated adults." https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/mrna-covid-vaccines-tied-drop-death-rate-4-years#:~:text=After weighting for demographic factors,low rate of serious complications. Meaning These findings suggest that COVID-19 vaccines offered protection against hospitalization and severe in-hospital outcomes during the 2024-2025 season, in which multiple JN.1 lineages evolved and circulated. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2844612

Not as many. To the point, the unvaccinated continued to die, which would mean deaths would not go back to pre-pandemic levels. That "immunity" comes from SURVIVING Covid, not never getting it in the first place. That was my point. You can get immunity far more safely from a vaccine vs surviving the virus. That is not an option for older people, sick people, or unhealthy people. You can't expect them to all risk severe illness and death for natural immunity. It does. I have already had this argument with West and proven him wrong with the data over and over again. Deaths increased... how? That matters. If more and more unvaccinated continue to die, what does that have to do with saying something about the Covid vaccine?

-And yet, the unvaccinated still died. You can't claim that just because there is a vaccine rollout, deaths should go back to pre-pandemic levels. The pandemic is still happening, and people are still dying. -There is no evidence to suggest that people en masse had any natural immunity to COVID. Sick people, unhealthy people, old people were still more vulnerable. -No, the data doesn't show that. The data shows that the majority of deaths were from unvaccinated. -The vax did in fact lower death and severe illness requiring hospitalizations.

This is such lousy logic. No, this would not happen at all if unvaccinated people continued dying as well as fewer vaccinated.

Have you figured out if you are meeting your NATO spending obligations yet?