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No, I said: Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated?

No, I do not, I have said no such thing. Show me the quote of where I said that. You can't. You keep making it up. What I said was: Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated?

I did not ask for any court case; I asked you to back up your claim that there was one that used your logic to win. Let's see it.

Once again, that has not been nor ever was my argument. I have corrected you twice before now. The fact that you have to keep making up crap to argue against only further shows the weakness of your position here. Why do you keep posting crap about autism? The discussion is not about autism. Well, feel free to show that then. You have not so far.

This current discussion was not about: -Forcing Pfizer to release its trial data 🚫 -Vaccines causing autism 🚫 What the discussion was about: -Your awful logic of saying that deaths should have immediately gone down after the COVID vaccine to levels before the Pandemic ✅

Dude, this is some copy-paste shit making the rounds on the left-wing social media. Link to where the Senator said this, posted it, shared it... You can't. You just mindlessly spam this forum with copy-paste shit. You run like a pathetic, sniveling little coward of a man when your shit gets called out.

Typical pathetic Beaver response. You accused me of only using the headline. I show you that I, in fact, quoted from the article. Instead of responding to that and admitting you were wrong, you change the subject. Also, you tried to claim that these trees were just normal landscaping and not part of the 2 billion trees, when it was, I showed you it was, so instead you argue some irrelevant point that 14,500 trees is not 2 billion. Once again your prove how pathetically dishonest you are willing to be to avoid admitting you were wrong. All that is left now is for you to run away and then bring this up months later like you won the argument and frame it dishonestly again.

You just gonna ignore this? Figures...

Yet again, you keep using these words like "make" or "should," which are things I have not said. You completely ignored what I said: Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated?

What do you mean, put my beliefs on the line against a lawyer? I am stating facts and basic logic right here, right now. These are not talking points, just basic facts. If you have a court case you want to reference, then let's see it.

No, not my argument at all. Depends on how deadly and harmful the disease is, how contagious, how many are infected... My argument is that it is illogical for you to claim that just because people are vaccinated, overall deaths should go down to the same rates as before the Pandemic. COVID was a very contagious and deadly disease and vaccination did not happen overnight, it took a campaign to achieve high levels and STILL the unvaccinated continued to die and the vaccine was not a magic shield, it reduced risk of death and serious illness, it did not stop it. So why would deaths be presumed to go down to pre-pandemic levels when unvaccinated were still getting sick and dying as well as fewer people who got vaccinated? Not only do I have a clue as to what I am talking about, but I also understand basic logic here. You want to run away because you are being called out.

Yes, they can show vaccines reduced both severe illness and death FOR THOSE WHO WERE VACCINATED There are so many studies on this I could post them all day long. "After weighting for demographic factors and 41 underlying health conditions, the researchers found that vaccinated adults had a 74% lower risk of death from severe COVID and a 25% lower risk of all-cause mortality. Further analysis showed that vaccinated people consistently had a lower risk of death, regardless of the cause. Mortality was 29% lower within 6 months for vaccinated adults." https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/mrna-covid-vaccines-tied-drop-death-rate-4-years#:~:text=After weighting for demographic factors,low rate of serious complications. Meaning These findings suggest that COVID-19 vaccines offered protection against hospitalization and severe in-hospital outcomes during the 2024-2025 season, in which multiple JN.1 lineages evolved and circulated. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2844612

Not as many. To the point, the unvaccinated continued to die, which would mean deaths would not go back to pre-pandemic levels. That "immunity" comes from SURVIVING Covid, not never getting it in the first place. That was my point. You can get immunity far more safely from a vaccine vs surviving the virus. That is not an option for older people, sick people, or unhealthy people. You can't expect them to all risk severe illness and death for natural immunity. It does. I have already had this argument with West and proven him wrong with the data over and over again. Deaths increased... how? That matters. If more and more unvaccinated continue to die, what does that have to do with saying something about the Covid vaccine?

-And yet, the unvaccinated still died. You can't claim that just because there is a vaccine rollout, deaths should go back to pre-pandemic levels. The pandemic is still happening, and people are still dying. -There is no evidence to suggest that people en masse had any natural immunity to COVID. Sick people, unhealthy people, old people were still more vulnerable. -No, the data doesn't show that. The data shows that the majority of deaths were from unvaccinated. -The vax did in fact lower death and severe illness requiring hospitalizations.

This is such lousy logic. No, this would not happen at all if unvaccinated people continued dying as well as fewer vaccinated.

Have you figured out if you are meeting your NATO spending obligations yet?

Wow! There you go, just a bit further now, and you are almost there! Its easy. Watch me: Iran was wrong to shut down the Strait of Hormuz, and its actions are one of the last options of a dying regime desperate to lash out. The Trump administration and Israel are degrading Iran's capability to project any power into the Strait every day.

You still can't bring yourself to criticize Iran for its actions. Why?

Yes. Notice how you continue to attack him and blame him. Not a bad word about Iran.

No, you are copying and pasting other people's opinions.

No, because Iran threatened global shipping in the Strait. Why do you suck up to and cover for the Iranian regime?

Another worthless trolling lazy spambot thread. No source, no link, just some random copy-paste BS that doesn't even cite who said this. Come up with your own thoughts.

Most of them here seem to be. You did not provide a fact, you provided an absurd hasty generalization that is false on its face.

Except it isn't. You are just a petty liar.

Hey coward, how come you can come out of hiding for this garbage but won't when you are shown what a sad pathological liar you are?