Infidel Dog

Buddy I've said that at least 2 times now including the first time it was said. You're quoting the article I gave you. There were two kids who made some threats against schools they claimed they would shoot up in four years. That was 4 years ago. They were sent to Juvenile detention for it. A Republican congressman confused them with the recent Uvalde shooter, Salvador Ramos. McCraw corrected him, saying the two cases are not connected. Are you hoping I forgot or are you honestly so dozy that you didn't notice me telling you that - TWICE? Three times now. Or do you think the information floated down to you from the sky or something. Reality man, come back to it. Get a grip. Now as to the claim Ramos also threatened to shoot up a school, yeah I think I heard that too. Something about messaging some girl who didn't know him or something. But it wasn't 4 years ago. That was a different incident most probably involving somebody else.

I didn't bring it up. I corrected your inaccuracy in your discussion of the story with somebody else. You apparently didn't understand he was referencing it in support of the idea such a person needed to be dealt with and not be issued guns in the future. If Ramos had been one of the 2 offenders who threatened mass homicides in schools it wouldn't have mattered if the offense had been 4 years ago. As it turned out Ramos was not one of the 2. I showed you that. I also showed you the two were incarcerated in a juvenile detention facility. What's wrong with you anyway? This is all easily referenced by just reading above and clicking the links. Why are you trying to pretend something other than what is clearly evident happened?

And I have read conservative sites complaining there was a time it was easier to get insane people institutionalized and that offers an explanation to many outrageous violent crimes since. It may even explain a rise in such offences. The 2 don't necessarily contradict each other.

And just in case it's still unclear Robert, I also endorse this one: "Here are the 12 lessons I’ve learned from this tragedy. I’m certain tens of millions of conservative patriots see it the exact same way. Wanna bet?" https://conservativeplaybook.com/2022/06/02/recent-events-only-reinforce-our-need-for-gun-rights-and-community-militias/

Oh and Robert I don't want you to be confused where I'm coming from so I'll show you this: I approve that message. I like Blake Masters and I'm glad he's doing well in his campaign.

Actually, I do. Sorry about that. I forgot how Progs like to posture expertise on things they don't know about so they refuse to click when the information is offered to them. Here ya go. This is from the article you obviously didn't read but want to pretend you know what's in there: Click to enlarge and read the second paragraph to the bottom.

I'm not sure why you think when I talk about things "we hear on the right" that suggests I'm criticizing or "blaming" them. I agree with you Ramos should have been flagged, dealt with and at least banned from gun ownership. There was enough evidence he had problems without even knowing about the two kids making threats 4 years ago. So it doesn't matter that Ramos wasn't one of them. Now as to the Baker Act... Maxine Baker was a Democrat representative in Florida. Her namesake act of 1971 is also known as the Florida Mental Health act. It put restrictions and applied regulations to who "possibly has a mental illness" and "is in danger of becoming a harm to self or harm to others, or is self-neglectful." It became more difficult to have somebody institutionalized not easier. I remember reading a movie review that came out with the film 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' in, I think they said 1975. They talked of protests outside the theatres offering information pamphlets pushing for more stringent restrictions on who could be identified as a problem or institutionalized after that.

The two kids in the incident Robert told you about. You know? The quote you were responding to. This one: Your response claimed nothing could be done in such a case. That you couldn't punish people for something they said. BTW, this is one of the complaints we hear on the right. That things started to go wrong after early SJW types of the 70s convinced people it should be more difficult to have people institutionalized. The wandering hordes of criminal, homeless nutbars are usually referenced.

I'll give you the quote just in case you don't want to click:

But you can grab their guns, right? Bet you can't. Not all of them. Not the illegal ones, for sure. Doesn't matter. You're wrong about the two kids. They could be grabbed and incarcerated in a juvenile delinquency center. I know that for a fact because they were. https://www.sfgate.com/news/local/article/Uvalde-gunman-texas-2018-school-shooting-arrest-17203004.php Unfortunately Robert is most likely wrong too. Best current information tells us neither of those two kids were Ramos.

I forgot some stuff: " Disturbing new video obtained by The Post shows demented Robb Elementary School shooter Salvador Ramos grinning as he holds up a bag of blood-soaked dead cats. The deranged 18-year-old gunman is seen smiling in the undated footage while sitting in the passenger seat of a pal’s car — holding up a clear plastic bag with at least two bloodied cats visible inside. The sicko was previously rumored to have had a fascination with dead cats and had threatened to kidnap, kill and rape girls who shunned him online. “The shooter was known for hurting cats,” said David Trevino Jr., who is related to the shooter’s grandmother by marriage, to The Post. “He liked hurting animals,” Trevino said. “I’m told he killed the cats and carried around the bag of bodies for s–ts and giggles. “The video shows he was not right in the head,” he added. “He’s not all there. The video raises all sorts of red flags.” One classmate said Ramos had a tendency to be “violent towards women” and was described by an ex-girlfriend as “scary.” https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/new-video-shows-texas-school-shooter-salvador-ramos-holding-bag-of-dead-cats/ So, in a different world would any of that or what's been mentioned already have been enough to open a red flag file on this guy who liked to cut his face up with knives, kill animals and boasted of buying a gun and said some people “deserved to be raped” on the teen app Yubo, where users nicknamed him “school shooter”– even before Tuesday’s massacre in Uvalde, Texas. If not, Republicans think it would have been a good idea to have had the rear school door locked and an armed guard at the front. Again, what's you're better idea? Why are you afraid to tell us?

Well let's look at one case and see what could have been done. How about the most recent case of the Uvalde shooter. He hinted on social media that an attack could be coming. On the morning of the attack, Ramos sent a direct message to an individual on a Facebook platform reading: “I’m going to shoot an elementary school.” A young woman who worked with him until March admitted she noticed an aggressive streak. “He would be very rude towards the girls sometimes, and one of the cooks, threatening them by asking, ‘Do you know who I am?’ And he would also send inappropriate texts to the ladies,” the former co-worker told The Daily Beast on condition of anonymity. “At the park, there’d be videos of him trying to fight people with boxing gloves. He’d take them around with him,” she said. The shooter's grandfather was a convicted felon. Ramos lived with him. It's illegal for a gunowner to live with a convicted felon. So there were red flags. Republicans are not against red flag laws properly administered. Then there's this: "The school was unlocked and no officer was present to stop him." Republicans would not have been opposed to that rear door being locked and a well trained armed guard at the door that would have been unlocked in the front. So that's how Republicans would react. Well thought out Red Flag flaws with mental care as reaction and precautions to deal with anybody that slipped through the cracks. Tell me specifically what you would recommend that would have been better.

BTW I continue to be baffled by the way you and yours play with definitions. What you call "Rationality" seems to depend on whether one agrees or disagrees with nutty "Prog Logic." I'll give you an example. You want to build your argument on a foundation of "Boo Hoo 20,000 innocents" then later it becomes convenient for you reimagine the consequences of your stat by telling us "97% of people murdered every year are criminal in nature and suicide." Now myself when I think of the gang wars in the "Progressive" run municipalities of say Chicago, Baltimore or St. Louis "Innocents" is not the word that screams out to me. Then I remember how suicides sky rocketed during the Prog-adored lockdowns and mandates of the pandemic and were rising even before that as Progressives gained more societal power I'm no longer sure it's true innocents that are being killed and even it is I can point a different finger than guns at what you and yours used to call "root causes" when it was convenient to avoid obvious causes that didn't jive with the Prog narrative.

You're not thinking rationally at all. Just firing from the hip so to speak like the wild west gun slingers in the cowboy movies. Wake up! Something like 20,000 innocent Americans are killed per year by guns and tens of thousand more wounded. The rare case where someone is able to defend themselves with a gun in no way justifies allowing 20,000 innocent people to be murdered every year. That is the problem in a nutshell. Guns need to be removed from most American hands and only made available to hunters and such under strict controls and conditions. The present system is not working and you should be concerned about the enormous senseless loss of life. The chart at this website shows the actual numbers: Firearm Deaths, All Ages: 1999-2016 Suicides Homicides Unintentional Legal Intervention Undetermined Intent Year % of Total Firearm Deaths for Year* % of Total Firearm Deaths for Year % of Total Firearm Deaths for Year % of Total Firearm Deaths for Year % of Total Firearm Deaths for Year Total 1999 16,599 57.5% 10,828 37.5% 824 2.9% 299 1.0% 324 1.1% 28,874 2000 16,586 57.9% 10,801 37.7% 776 2.8% 270 0.9% 230 0.8% 28,663 2001 16,869 57.0% 11,348 38.4% 802 2.7% 323 1.1% 231 0.8% 29,573 2002 17,108 56.6% 11,829 39.1% 762 2.5% 300 1.0% 243 0.8% 30,242 2003 16,907 56.1% 11,920 39.6% 730 2.4% 347 1.2% 232 0.8% 30,136 2004 16,750 56.6% 11,624 39.3% 649 2.2% 311 1.1% 235 0.8% 29,569 2005 17,002 55.4% 12,352 40.2% 789 2.6% 330 1.1% 221 0.7% 30,694 2006 16,883 54.6% 12,791 41.4% 642 2.1% 360 1.2% 220 0.7% 30,896 2007 17,352 55.6% 12,632 40.5% 613 2.0% 351 1.1% 276 0.9% 31,224 2008 18,223 57.7% 12,179 38.5% 592 1.9% 326 1.0% 273 0.9% 31,593 2009 18,735 59.8% 11,493 36.7% 554 1.8% 333 1.1% 232 0.7% 31,347 2010 19,392 61.2% 11,078 35.0% 606 1.9% 344 1.1% 252 0.8% 31,672 2011 19,990 62.0% 11,068 34.2% 591 1.8% 454 1.4% 248 0.8% 32,351 2012 20,666 61.6% 11,622 34.6% 548 1.6% 471 1.4% 256 0.8% 33,563 2013 21,175 63.0% 11,208 32.8% 505 1.5% 467 1.4% 281 0.8% 33,636 2014 21,386 63.7% 11,008 32.6% 461 1.4% 464 1.4% 275 0.8% 33,594 2015 22,018 60.7% 12,979 35.8% 489 1.3% 484 1.3% 282 0.8% 36,252 2016 22,938 59.3% 14,415 37.3% 495 1.3% 510 1.3% 300 0.8% 38,658 Total 336,579 58.8% 213,175 37.2% 11,428 2.0% 6,744 1.2% 4,611 0.8% 572,537 Average Per Year 18,699 11,843 635 375 256 31,808 I got the figure of 900 millions guns from some website but it is likely incorrect. Another website says 339 million guns are owned by Americans. That sounds more accurate. But that is still a massive number of guns. The population is only 335 million. The problem is a gun mentality. It is the wild west continuing. The number of people murdered every years is staggering. 97% of people murdered every year are criminal in nature and suicide. Only 1.2% of the deaths are legal intervention. So the gun culture is illegally killing approximately 20,000 Americans per year illegally. Nobody in their right mind could justify that under some kind "right to bear arms". That is total and complete insanity to my way of thinking. Anybody who believes that is ok needs to get counselling help. America is the only country in the world with that number of guns per capita population. Sadly I don't see it changing. Large numbers of people will continue to shoot other Americans. America is a sick society. It is time to admit it. US Gun Deaths by Year - Gun Control - ProCon.org See here's the problem: you want all the guns but you don't want to tell us how you're going to get them. Why is that? I'd say: a) because you don't know - too many, it's an impossible task. b) totalitarian - starts with federal registration leads to the 3 o'clock knock on the door to be effective. Without a slippery slope leading to complete authoritarian rule on all levels it doesn't work. We tried it in Canada. Didn't work. C) You've forgotten what you guys say on other issues - look for root causes. Guns aren't the root cause. They can't pull their own trigger. But go ahead give a D) as to why you don't want to tell us how you plan to grab all the guns. I'd be surprised if you could. Because if you can't grab all the guns stop talking like you can as an easy solution.

Those are some very complex issues you want to reduce to abc simplicity. Basically though, when everything is considered, everything you just said is wrong. You like simplicity, right? It's that simple.

Has that changed since 2015? Show me. I count 29 lower gun murder rates that California and 30 or 4 ties in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state And if you go by total number of murders involving firearms in 2020 California sits comfortably on top of Texas and blows the other states away. https://www.statista.com/statistics/301603/murder-involving-firearms-us/

As I understand it they're fine with well administered red flag laws but they worry the bill as it stands could be a path to federal gun registration. https://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-HR-8-being-voted-on-by-the-Senate-one-way-or-the-other-after-it-was-sent-there-by-the-House-in-February?share=1

Also, weren't the TDSers all the time telling us Trump wasn't a Conservative? Except when it's convenient to think of him as one, I guess. Prog logic.

Sure looks to be going in that direction since 2020 when we started hearing about the Progressive Stack and such. Would you like to see it again? Notice that big spike since the Soros attorney generals started to kick it into gear with lax sentences? And then the progs gifted us with the defund the police movement. You guys loved your lockdowns too. Suicides soared with those. And as I noted more than half firearms related deaths are suicides. See this is what Progs do. They create a problem then they offer to solve the problem. Never works. They don't actually have solutions as you've illustrated with such dogged determination not to offer any.

How would you know? I'm still waiting to see you offer some specifics on what that change would look like. Go ahead. Offer something that makes sense and I might surprise you. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

More than half firearms related deaths are suicides. That's interesting. And here's another interesting little fact about firearms related deaths. They increased drastically this millennium with the empowerment of what some like to think of themselves as "Progressives."

For the guns, no. For the societal breakdown that propagates deviance, moral breakdown, self and external destruction, yeah. Although...without all that normal people wouldn't need so many guns, maybe.

Thanks. Until you can tell me exactly how you plan to create this "change" I'll do just that and recommend others to the same.

You seem to be recommending a societal overhaul of rethink. I'm not necessarily opposed to that but the current push for it - what I'll mistakenly call the "progressive" approach just because that's what they call themselves - hasn't worked, doesn't work, will never work and personally, I believe is what got us where we are. I'd be more for rediscovering what we had before everything went wrong. Societally speaking I mean. Family, Freedom with personal responsibility and the golden rule. That sort of thing

So what's your solution then. Grab all the guns? It can't be done. Next.