blackbird

"4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:4 "20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;| Romans 3:20-25 "2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. {so many: or, so great} 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Galatians 3:2-5 "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10 So it is clear we are not saved by our works. We are saved strictly by grace through faith. When a person believes and accepts Christ as his Lord and Savior, he is born again by the Holy Spirit. It is not a process. It is something that happens at the time one believes in Christ as Savior and believes Christ died and paid for all of his sins. Then he works for the Lord. But he becomes a Christian by faith at a given time, He doesn't become a Christian through some kind of process of working for his salvation. All these verses show clearly salvation is by faith alone and then a person works. Paul condemned the idea of working for salvation. Imputed righteousness is given to the believer the moment he accepts Christ as his Savior.

So nobody knows in Catholicism whether they are going to heaven or not? How can you know if you have salvation if you must still work for it?

No, I can see you don't understand what Scripture teaches and don't understand salvation. Nobody can earn salvation. Paul makes it clear in Romans is is not by works. Works is simply evidence of one already having salvation. But I can see you are not really interested in knowing what the Bible teaches. You ignore all the verses I gave to show salvation is by faith. Then one verse in James shows true salvation should have works in the believer's life. That is not saying one is earning his salvation because Romans makes it clear a believer already has his salvation and various verses including in John say a true Christian will never lose his salvation. If you want to believe Catholicism's dogma that you must work to earn salvation, then maybe you don't have it. How can any Catholic say he is saved if he still must earn salvation? Answer that.

I just explained it but you apparently ignored it. We are talking about justification by faith and evidence of that faith by works. That is what James is referring to. The Apostle Paul mentions in numerous places that one is saved by grace through faith. That person then has salvation and he goes on to live for Christ or do works. He is not working to earn his salvation. He is working because he is already saved. Catholicism denies that one can be saved by faith and alone and follow it by doing good works. Catholicism claims one must work for his salvation. Do you see the difference? True Christians are working because they are saved, not trying to earn salvation. That is the difference. Also on a slightly different subject, if Christians must atone for their own sins by having priests hold Masses, say penances, rosaries, and spend time in Purgatory, then Christ must have died in vain. Nobody would know whether they will go to heaven or not. Catholics don't know whether they have salvation.

So you ignored all the verses I gave in an earlier post about the Council of Trents' Canons. quote CANON 9: “If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.” https://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html “because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin,” (Rom. 3:20). “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,” (Rom. 3:24). “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law,” (Rom. 3:28). “For what does the Scripture say? ‘ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” (Rom. 4:3). “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” (Rom. 5:1). “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,” (Eph. 2:8). “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” (Titus 3:5). CANON 12: “If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ’s sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified…let him be accursed.” https://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,” (John 1:12). “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law,” (Rom. 3:28). “For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,'” (Rom. 4:3). “Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. 26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself,” (Heb. 7:25–27). “For this reason, I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day,” (2 Tim. 1:12). James 2:24 is not denying justification by faith. Faith must be followed by works in one's life. That means when one accepts Christ as his Lord and Savior, he thereafter lives for Christ which involves doing good. But he is not doing good works to earn salvation. That is the difference. James is talking about the Christian life after one is saved or born again. Jesus talks about the need to be born again in John ch3. Catholicism rejects salvation by grace through faith and claims one must work for his salvation (and included the sacraments, penance, etc.) Read the verses about salvation by grace through faith and you will see one is saved and has salvation the moment he believes. He is not working for his salvation. He is doing good works because he is saved. That is what James means. That is the big difference between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity. A Christian is not working to earn his salvation. James 2:24 therefore is simply saying when a person has been born again or believes in Christ, he will do good works, not to earn his salvation, but simply because he is a child of God. Good works is evidence of one who is born again by grace through faith.

This is what my Roman Catholic Bible says. It is The New American Bible and has the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur which approves it as an official Catholic Bible. "since no one will be justified in God's sight through observance of the law; the law does nothing but point out what is sinful." Romans 3:20 "For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from observance of the law." Romans 3:28 "Now that we have been justified by faith, we are at peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1 These are all from a Roman Catholic Bible. These are just three verses out of many. You can look at the verses in my post above refuting the Council of Trent Canons mentioned and compare them in your own Catholic Bible if you have one.

THE BIG LIE. Luther added nothing to Scripture. Where did you get that one? There are over 5,000 manuscripts or part of manuscripts going back centuries before Luther. These manuscripts were used for the Received Text which the King James Bible is based on in 1611. Do you seriously believe anyone thinks Luther added all the verses on salvation by faith to Luther's bible or any other Bible? This is the first I've ever heard that claim. Who told you that? I think if you cross check in between the KJV and Catholic Bibles you will even find most of the verses are in the Catholic Bibles. I will check right now. I happen to have a Catholic Bible on a bookshelf. I will compare the verses I quoted above earlier this morning which refute the Council of Trent.

Again you're talking about apples and orange. Barack Obama was the President of the U.S.A. and Taylor Swift is a big entertainment star. So of course they have big following because of that. Jordan Peterson was just a psychology professor who gave his opinions on some media or internet platforms and because of his beliefs/opinions acquired a large following. He didn't have the help of the mainstream media and high political office or entertainment star industry. Peterson earned his large following by his work in exposing the woke, liberal, progressivism.

Did you read all the scripture verses on my post answering the council of Trent? All the verses say salvation is by faith alone. Are you willing to consider those verses?

Ok, here is the relevant Canons from the Council of Trent. You can Google any of this and see for yourself. The Council of Trent was a response to the Reformation, particularly a response to Luther and his followers. quote CANON 9: “If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.” https://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html “because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin,” (Rom. 3:20). “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,” (Rom. 3:24). “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law,” (Rom. 3:28). “For what does the Scripture say? ‘ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” (Rom. 4:3). “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” (Rom. 5:1). “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,” (Eph. 2:8). “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” (Titus 3:5). CANON 12: “If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ’s sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified…let him be accursed.” https://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,” (John 1:12). “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law,” (Rom. 3:28). “For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,'” (Rom. 4:3). “Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. 26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself,” (Heb. 7:25–27). “For this reason, I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day,” (2 Tim. 1:12). Council of Trent: Canons on Justification | carm.org

I think we are up against a wall. You constantly accuse and reject everything I say and reject any sources of information that refer to Scripture. You constantly claim I am playing protestant games, which is false. I only want to help you find salvation. If you see that as a threat, you are in serious trouble with God. The video of the priest put on one of the forum subjects a week ago said clearly the Council of Trent condemned the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith. Maybe you have a different understanding of what grace is. Grace is unmerited favour by God. It is not a magical thing a priest gives a baby by baptizing him. A priest cannot forgive sins in the confessional. A priest cannot offer a Mass to make atonement for sins. Christ already atoned for sins once for all 2,000 year ago. What do you say about that? Do you believe a person can receive complete forgiveness for sins by coming to Christ and believing in him as Lord and Savior? Do you believe a Christian has been forgiven for all his sins once and for all? If you're not sure read the Epistle to the Hebrews. And remember instead of being hostile and thinking I am out to deceive you, read the Epistle to the Hebrews (especially chapters 9, 10, and 11) and consider what the Catholicism teaches on salvation and what the Bible teaches.

I thought you said before that salvation by faith through grace was heresy. The Council of Trent condemned the belief that salvation is by grace through faith. That was Luther's and the Reformation central claim which you constantly rejected as heresy. Now you are claiming you are saved by grace? You are contradicting yourself. The Catholic church opposed and rejects as heresy salvation by grace through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. They have their own long list of things one must follow to obtain salvation. What do you believe about how to obtain forgiveness for sin?

The problem is the great scam of claiming man is causing climate change. 97% of the CO2 in the atmosphere is natural. Mankind only contributes 3% and of that, Canada's contribution is miniscule. What website articles are saying is man's 3% contribution increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere since pre-industrial times from 280 parts per million to 420 parts per million today. How could 3% of the CO2 in the atmosphere cause a CO2 increase of that amount in the atmosphere? It just doesn't add up. If man only contributes 3%, then man's contribution should only be 8.4 parts per million of the increase. The 70% increase in CO2 in the atmosphere since the start of the industrial revolution had to have been caused by nature, not man, since 97% of the CO2 is natural. Where is the proof that man caused the 140 PPM increase? There is no proof. Nobody has to be a genius to figure this out. It is simply math or arithmetic. Where did the other 140 parts per million of CO2 since the beginning of the industrial age come from? Do you see the contradiction? Something just doesn't add up. Where's the proof man is the cause? Speculation or conjecture is not proof of anything.

No. Doesn't tell me anything. Don't see the connection. You are talking about apples and orange.

No, I never said it does. But if he has 7.5 million subscribers with 650 million views, that should tell you something.

No I don't believe a pastor or anyone is sinless. Please tell me how you can be saved in the RCC? What do you believe about salvation?

It would be interesting to know much of the annual amount being spent actually reaches the child day care operators and what percentage is taken off for administering it?

An internet search on Jordan Peterson says "The channel has 7.5 million subscribers, with 650 million views; videos derived from his online content by others have been viewed a billion times." I doubt he cares what you say about him.

This is just another form of persecution against employers and people who don't believe in their death culture. " Employers against assisted suicide shouldn’t qualify for Canada Summer Jobs funding, an advocate has written to MPs. The submission to the Commons human resources committee came from a group that was successful in lobbying for the denial of funding to pro-life employers, Blacklock’s has reported." Make employers against assisted suicide ineligible for job program: Advocate (msn.com) This is clearly another attack and persecution against people who hold historic Judeo-Christian beliefs that respect the sanctity of human life

" 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23 "1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:" Romans 5:1 " 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. " Hebrews 10:11-14 You can see clearly from this that was referring to the Old Testament priesthood which could never take away sins. the O.T. priesthood was a picture of the once for all sacrifice of Christ. Once Christ was crucified, there was no more earthly priesthood. It was complete. But Jesus by his once for all sacrifice paid for all sin. This can never be repeated which means the Mass is redundant. It serves no purpose. Read Hebrews ch9, 10, and 11. "11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. " Hebrews 9:11, 12

Jordan Peterson provides a strong case that the Charter of Rights is a worthless piece of paper. In his case, he expressed his opinion openly and was severely censured and ordered to be re-educated in some kind of woke education process. "n November 2022, the administrative board that regulates the conduct of psychologists (and much more than that, it turns out) decided that my political views were a disgrace to my profession, that of clinical psychologist. I was therefore sentenced by that board, the Ontario College of Psychologists, to a bout of mandatory re-education, of indeterminate duration, at my expense, with my learning not evaluated by any standard method but subject to the opinion of those charged with, profiting by and exploiting my forced studentship. I took those decision-makers forthwith to court, and lost. The decision of the Ontario College of Psychologists was upheld. I then appealed, to a higher court. On January 16, 2024, that appeal was rejected. There were no reasons provided." Jordan Peterson: Bureaucrats will rue the day they tried to shut me up (msn.com) To fully understand this one need to click on the link and read the whole article.

You are lying. I have no disdain for women or trans youth.

No, I follow the Jesus who inspired men to write the Bible. "Later we read that Peter slept in Gethsemane, during Christ’s agony. His rash act in cutting off the servant’s ear drew Christ’s rebuke. He boasted that he was ready to die for his Master, but shortly afterward shamefully denied with oaths and curses that he even knew Him. And even after Pentecost Peter still was subject to such serious error that his hypocrisy had to be rebuked by Paul, who says: “But when Cephas came to Antioch [at which time he was in full possession of his papal powers, according to Romanist doctrine], I resisted him to the face, because he stood condemned” (Galatians 2:11). And yet Romanists allege that their pope, as Peter’s successor, is infallible in matters of faith and morals!" This is history of Peter that Boettner wrote but you can verify it is Biblical. Surely, a fallible sinful man like Peter could not have been appointed Pope, the head of the church on earth, since shortly after Peter was allegedly appointed as Pope, he committed such sinful acts. He denied Christ and after Penticost was sill in serious error and had to be rebuked by Paul. How could that be? How could Peter, the Pope, be rebuked by Paul?

I follow Jesus Christ, the Rock. Luther was once a Roman Catholic monk who God revealed the truth to through the Holy Scripture. Boettner was a renowned theologian who studied these subjects in great depth and knew far more than most people about it. I have limited knowledge and don't claim to be an expert but I can read the Bible like most people. I found Boettner's explanation strongly supported by the Bible. You really need to come out of your shell and study all sides to this with the Bible as the final authority.

Why would the writer of the gospel use the word petros in the first part when speaking to Peter and then use the word Petra, a different word. Petros means a small rock or stone and Petra means a large rock or foundation. Obviously the word Petra was not referring to Peter, but was referring to Peter's confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God which he had just made. The church is built on that confession that Jesus is the Christ or Messiah and the Son of God. Peter was the first to confess that and Jesus recognized him for that. The confession is the Petra, not Peter.