Goddess

Freedom of religion is a wonderful principle. Sometimes there are other principles, such as women not being owned property, that should override another principle.

Indigenous bands are also deeply troubled by greedy, self-serving chiefs who steal federal funds and leave their own people living in squalor. Trudeau gave over any governmental checks and balances to the natives themselves and this has not gone well. They need more chiefs like Chief Clarence Louie in Osoyoos, BC.

There are good points made on both sides here - yes, trauma can and does affect a family for generations. It takes a lot of work to pull oneself out of those circumstances. Some Natives do pull themselves out, using the resources provided by the government. I do feel more of them could do more to help themselves. Case in point - a friend of mine who grew up on the Fort McKay reserve in N. Alberta. I met her in college when we were both in our 40's and we got to be good friends until her death last year. She told me that growing up - she knew she did not want a life on the reserve, did not want to raise her children there. She said, as soon as she was able (age 18), she got out, went to college and worked for 15 years on site in the oilsands as a heavy hauler. She met and married a non-Native, had one child and adopted a child from Nunavut. I met her in college when she was again using her indigenous rights to education to make a career change. At no time did she feel she had to give up her identity as an indigenous person to achieve any of this. It can be done. I just feel with all the "perks" offered by the government to Natives - why aren't more of them taking advantage of it? If I was offered free education, I'd be on that in a heartbeat. But again, not everyone has the determination and self-awareness to pull themselves up. I'm glad my friend did. I miss her strength and wisdom a lot.

Having re-entered the dating scene about a year and half ago, I concur. I'm mid-50's but people tell me I look at least 10 years younger. I'm finding that most men in their mid-fifties look at least 10 years OLDER than they really are. I don't know if it's just the dating sites, but it seems that men in my age group do not look after themselves these days. They look haggard, tired, don't appear to care about what they dress like, and have a lot of very unhealthy habits. Haven't dated in a while now because I love being on my own and don't want to slow down my life to be a nursemaid to a man who hasn't looked after himself.

No. No.

I didn't deny the role of education. I just pointed out its limitations. If education was all it took, then the rate of decline would be more than 30%. But yes, yay for the 30%

Meh. Religion has had a very big hand in the mistreatment of women since time began. I get what you're trying to say though....I recently was told by someone who doesn't believe in God that men have one less rib than women.....? Last vestiges of a religious upbringing. To his credit, he googled it and found I was right.

I agree. And especially when it comes to religious ideas and actions. If a person believes that men have been given the right by God to rule over women, you can talk feminism til you're blue in the face. Honour killings and FGM occur in countries where it's against the law and they know they will be prosecuted - it doesn't stop them. When a person thinks God commands something - it's rare that human reasoning can overcome a belief like that.

OK.

No, I just don't re-interpret what they've said. Probably because I don't believe that criticism of Islam = demonizing ALL Muslims or that the person criticizing wants to kill them.

No one has said that. You and others keep spouting that that's what's being said, but it's really not.

Yes, I know you do not agree that misogyny is more prevalent in Islam than in other religions. Until I see another religion - on the same world-wide scale as Islam - that beats and kills women for not dressing how they proscribe, who performs FGM on the same scale, who denies women basic human rights in every country ruled by the religion, kills women in the name of "honour", with explicit teachings in their holy book about how and with what they may beat their wives,......I will likely never understand your reasons for disagreeing. But I respect your right to disagree.

Excuse me? A man who feels entitled to beat on his wife in public, obviously has certain beliefs about women. That is not complex or unrealistic. I don't "arbitrarily" dislike wife-beaters. Your comments are weird.

C'mon. Do I really need to explain to you why a religion that churns out humans who behead for blasphemy, burns alive other humans, mistreats women/girls and is currently wreaking havoc all over the world would turn a lot of other humans off? Do you really need an objective principle or rule to say these things are wrong? I absolutely will judge a culture on its beliefs. Especially when they are harmful. These things are not "culture". They are harmful religious teachings.

Which I do not. My stance has always been that Islam condones and promotes misogyny, which leads to mistreatment of women. More so than other religions.

Here's the problem with that: Of course you will find a small pocket of another religious group doing the same thing (interestingly, Christians often do the same as Muslims in Muslim-ruled countries, but it is outside the scope of what Christianity normally does. For example - FGM.) but it is never on the same scale as Islamic countries, so not a real equivalency.

At times, we all do. Of course we do. We must. My neighbour who constantly cuffed his wife across her head....you bet I judged his belief that women are trash who need to be cuffed across the head. According to some here, the problem in this scenario is ME - I should not be judging him or the stone-age religious belief that inspires his treatment of his wife.

I somewhat disagree with this part. Yes, people should be judged on their own merits. But if you choose to openly attach yourself to a questionable group, it is natural for others to assume certain things about you. If you're wearing a KISS t-shirt, I'm going to assume you like that band. For instance - could I join the KKK, only because I enjoy their fellowship and agree with "some" of their beliefs, am attached to their style of dress, live in a predominantly KKK area or whatever - and then claim I'm not part of the violent aspects of the group? If I choose to dress as a KKK member, should I really be surprised and offended when others associate me with that group? If a "large part" (as you say) of a group holds violent, misogynistic, barbaric beliefs - why on earth would someone want to associate themselves with that group? Like it or not, we are judged by others for the groups we attach ourselves to.

I questioned you first as to why you believe religion doesn't affect people's behaviours, stating my belief that it does. You are now "softening" your view by saying that it's not the ONLY cause. Mmmm-hmmmm ? Diversionary. We're not talking about that. Muslim isn't a race.

No, I don't. I just recognize when religious zealotry is at work. You are the one who keeps making the statement that religion in no way affects people's behaviour. You have to prove it. I'm not here to do your research for you.

Google "link between a person's behaviour and religion" and literally pages full of information that it absolutely does. You choose not to see it. I realize that you likely have zero experience with religious zealotry, but c'mon already.....people let their babies DIE for religion, people blow up, run over, behead and burn alive other humans in the name of religion. It's right there in front of you.

It's very naïve to believe that religion never causes someone to behave a certain way. It most certainly does. I think you vastly underestimate religious zealotry. In my old religion, people routinely let their children die, rather than let them have a blood transfusion. And when Muslim terrorists all over the world yell "Allahu Akbar" when committing atrocities, it's foolish to deny the religious connection.

Nothing in what he said, says he agrees with it. You read far too much into statements. Very much like the murderer of this family.

No one has said that, but you. I'm sure not EVERY Palestinian voted for Hamas - a known terrorist organization. However, the fact is that the majority did, knowing full well that their mandate/constitution is to kill the Jews. You engage in the same thing you accuse others of. No one has said they would block the escape of moderate Muslims who want to get out of Palestine because they don't like Hamas.

I was referring to *this* comment, smarty-pants/mouthy-pants: "So we have Yzermanius and BCSapper who support the murder of this family, because it's validated by Muslim crimes in others parts of the world. " No one here supports the murdering of this family.