Goddess

I think the difference between Muslims and Christians is that Christians are told to WAIT for Jesus to do the killing. Muslims are instructed to do the killing themselves. This is what makes them more dangerous.

** sigh ** You certainly love moving the goalposts...... Since Altai didn't comment on her personal conversion but was making a general statement, I also didn't commnet on her personal situation. Also, as I'm new here, I haven't read every thread on here. So if she commented somewhere about her personal situation, I am unaware. Nor does the fact that she converted have anything at all to do with her statement above.

BINGO! Now think about that for a little while.....

I don't believe the 99% thing either...... http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428146/

I don't expect "complete" unity, I don't believe I ever said that. (?) However, in respect to the violent interpretations of the Koran, yes.....I would expect complete unity. That is a big thing to me, and to the world right now. I would also expect that in a matter this HUGE (whether to kill all non-Muslims or not), a religion that claims to be perfect would not be having problems like they are right now. Obviously there is no unity in the interpretations (even in minor matters), so what are the consequences of being a rogue Muslim? How do they deal with that?

Coolio. Thanks! That is what I wanted to see. Why is this not taught in mainstream Islam? If someone deviates from these teachings, what are the consequences? (The cult I was in was VERY fanatical about maintaining unity. You could not disagree with any teaching, no matter how minor, or you were kicked out and shunned for life). I'm sorry if my questions sound snarky, they are asked in genuineness. I would really like to know.

When I click "Read the Letter" it just has a list of statements with no sources. I am well aware of the differences in Christian beliefs but we are talking about Muslim beliefs so I didn't address unity in Christian teachings. Questioning this indicates to you that my mind is closed?

The letter to bagdahdi..... ^^^ Where is the proof from the Koran? ^^^ Anyone can make those statements, "This is forbidden" or "That is forbidden". Where are the textual proofs? I can't imagine ISIS or any Muslim would just read that list and agree to it without proofs. The reason I was asking about what is taught in the mosques is because I wanted to know why there is no unity in Muslim beliefs. Are they not all taught the same thing?

You previously said that "farmers" is the correct translation of "kafirs" but only in some verses. So when the directive is given to "annihilate kafirs"......who are you supposed to annihilate? That is my question. If it's not farmers, then who is it? If a Muslim chooses to interpret that as "annihilate farmers" is he free to interpret it that way? Is he shown the proper people to annihilate? If he chooses to interpret it as "annihilate non-Muslims" is he free to interpret it that way? What direction is given in the mosques as to which people to annihilate?

I understand your interpretation, yes. So...the direction to "annihilate kafirs" means.....??

You did write this, did you not?

I don't want to speak for Dog, but maybe he is not "choosing" the violent interpretation. It is the violent interpretation that is causing so many problems. So yes, we "kafirs" are much more concerned about the violent interpretations than we are with the Non-violent interpretations. When we question a verse that says to "annihilate Kafirs" and are told by a Muslim that "kafirs" refers to farmers.......we're not idiots. We know that doesn't mean farmers.

"6:45: So the kafirs were annihilated. All praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds" Boy, they really hate farmers. I had no idea.

So, when Muslims are instructed, "3:28: Believers should not take Kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah's protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear him for all will return to him."................this is talking about farmers? You can't make friends with farmers? Why not?

(Lots of "appeal to ridicule" in this thread.....that's disappointing) Islam is not just a religion. It is also a political ideology. Anything done religiously has a political motive. Political Islam is what should be our concern, not their religion. Who cares how a Muslim worships? We need to become familiar with Sharia law. The vast majority of Muslims want it. They are gradually implementing it all over the world, including here. 64% of it is devoted to Kafirs (non-Muslims) - how to deal with us, how to get us to submit, how to subjugate us. Having them take a "citizenship test" or whatever is pointless, I think. They KNOW we have different values then they do. They don't care about our values. They just keep chipping away at them, demanding more and more Sharia law be implemented. Do any who are supporters of this have a line that should not be crossed for it's implementation? Where exactly do we say, "No more". And how do we do that, after we have caved in to each and every other demand they make? I don't know why we think we are special in Canada and that what is happening over there will not happen here?

When I lived in the US, I was surprised to experience "cultural shock" to a certain extent. It was hard to put my finger on it, but it was there....they just "think" differently than we do on a lot of things. I missed Canada very much. I travelled back at one point to go to the Grey Cup and I cried when "O Canada" was played.

Also, I don't believe any amount of education or evidence can make a man (or woman) give up cherished religious beliefs until they are ready.

I haven't given much thought until recently about how to handle this in Canada. It's only since France has taken a stand that I have researched their issues with the Muslim population, which go back many years. I "get" what you are saying about not making a law that would make it more difficult for women to come forward. Definitely an issue. But how do we educate the men that this is not allowed in Canada? We can't allow Muslim men to dot his to women in this country. How do the women feel when they finally get to a "free" country and it supports their husbands/family in abusing them? And where are the support networks for women? They didn't work well for Aqsa Parvez.

Dialamah, I was born and raised and lived most of my life in a religion where women were second-class and taught to "know their place". I was able to get out, with my children,and without support of any kind. I left with no money, no job, no friends, no family. I well know how hard it would be for a woman to take a stand against this kind of abuse. And I understand why some do not have the strength to do it. Support networks would be key. But I don't believe changing our laws to normalize their abuse of women would be helpful to these women. Nor to the rest of women in Canada.

It's a choice like when you are being mugged and someone puts a gun to your head and says, "Your money or your life." Dialamah, thank you for the thoughtful response. Perhaps an answer, in Canada at least, is to have support networks set up so that women can report this kind of coercion and abuse and be safe from the repercussions of their men. And have the men go to some kind of classes where they are taught to view women differently. Education. I think this should be done as soon as they arrive in Canada. I don't believe in Canada should be allowing this kind of abuse of women just because it's THEIR culture. It's not our culture. Women have fought hard to have the same rights as men and it would be a shame and a detriment to Canada if we backslide or allow the normalizing of women as second-class citizens. Will a few women in burka destroy Canada? Likely not, but it is the thin edge of the wedge. A wedge Muslims have been adept at using. "Questioning the Veil" is an excellent read in this regard. To me, hijabs and burkas are either religious abuse of women or domestic abuse of women. With a few wearing it to make a political statement.

I understand your thinking about the "choice" part of it. I'll give that a bit more thought. I've researched the subject a lot though and coupled with my experiences with the culture, I will stand by thoughts for now. Thanks for the quoting tip, too

Having trouble with the quote feature on this forum, sorry. "I would hope that she would see a woman making a choice, as I am assured some women do when it comes to the hijab." ~~bcsapper "Some" women do.....because they've been conditioned to accept their subservient role. Or they want to make a political/religious statement. Many more are forced into it. Aqsa Parvez refused to wear it and was murdered by her father. This is the reality, even in Canada, but much more so in Middle Eastern countries. Is that really a choice? In either case, I feel it is forced on them. Taxme said he will start up a conversation with a hijab wearing woman in front of her husband.....Wasn't there just an incident like that in the news....a woman's co-worker spoke to her and her husband in a mall and he ended up going to the job and killing someone over it..... I hate that women are again being told what they can and can't wear, but I also feel that our right to live in a society that is not openly hostile to women trumps their right to wear a garment that represents women's second-class citizenship. The principle should be that discrimination based on your innate characteristics (sex, race, etc) trumps protection from discrimination based on your affiliated ones (political party, sports, religion, etc.) Maybe it's the wording surrounding it that I don't care for.... "modest". It's not modest, it's fetishizing some parts of a woman's body that have nothing to do with sex and extending the sexual area inappropriately. And the overt inference is that you are not "modest" if you don't wear it, like you fail some minimum standard. But that's just my 2 cents.

I am also 100% against hijabs being added to our Mountie uniforms. There should be no religious affiliations prominently displayed with a police uniform. How safe will a Jewish person feel when pulled over by a clearly adorned Muslim Mountie? How supported will a female domestic violence victim feel with a Mountie who's wearing something that symbolizes her acceptance of women's subjugation to men? What happens if she has to arrest (or even deal with) a Muslim man...will he respect her authority at all when she is clearly communicating with the hijab that she is subservient to him? The uniform and the hijab are at odds with each other.

New person here! I am one of the ones who lost a home in Fort Mac (in Beacon Hill). I did not have to evacuate, as I was working in Edmonton that day. My ex was there and called at noon that day to say everything was okay. He was working in the Emergency Operations Center keeping an eye on the fires. Then at 2:30 pm, I got called out of a meeting with a phone call from him, crying on the side of the highway because the police would not let him go back to the house to get our dog. The fire was only a few feet from our house by then, so thank you to the policeman who kept him from going back. By 9 pm there was nothing left of my house except a smoldering hole. I know for a fact that there were no "eyes on the ground" that day, so no one knew Beacon Hill was burning until homes were already on fire. This could have been so, so much worse. Our insurance company has been pretty good, although they will only cover a portion of the home's contents. So thank you to everyone who has donated items or money. Not everyone is "rich" in Fort Mac. The mortgage on the house was $1400/mth and now my ex pays that, plus $2200 for a tiny basement suite. Hardly a day goes by that I don't remember something dear or important or that I need that was lost in the fire. I enjoyed reading this thread. And now I have 1 post under my belt.