Goddess

I thought I would share some quotes from this book, as I found it very enlightening. I realize it’s a “hot” topic, but I feel the author of this book takes on the subject in a very respectful manner. It helped me to better understand the reasons for veiling, they are as individual as the women who wear it, and the real life experiences presented in the book give a human feel to the issue that I think is lacking in a lot of discussions. There are so many good points in the letters, so I will add them to the thread as I have time, but I'll start off with the introduction to the book and the first letter - tackling the issue of Modesty. From the Introduction: Early in the book, Lazreg speaks of her mother and how she could not come to rescue her (the author) when a boy from the neighbourhood was hitting her. Her mother did not have her veil on, thus she could not walk into the street in public to help her daughter. Her mother threw a shoe at the boy, missed and hit her daughter in the forehead, leaving a permanent scar. As she grew up, she wondered, “If the boy had been older and carried weapon, would the veil have prevented my mother from saving me?” Letter 1 - Modesty The author begins with the story of Mina, who at 13 was told by her mother she needed to start wearing the veil. Her first veil was a bedsheet, and she felt “disoriented” when she first stepped onto the street. She said, “I did not feel good at all wearing the veil. I felt camouflaged. But then I thought, ‘This is life, you know.’” She decided to make herself look good under the veil and bought expensive silks to drape over her face. From the book: There is also an interesting part of the chapter that gives the experiences of older women who took up wearing the veil as a way of “accepting their age”. The second letter is called Sexual Harassment, and looks at the views of women who veil because they feel it is the best way to ward off men's advances. I'll post quotes from there later.

NVM Upon further research, I didn't trust this source.

No one here has said it's a problem exclusive to Muslims. It's the scale of it. And to say "IF" there's a problem with it in Islam.....are you really not sure it is a problem in Islam? Yes, Canadian men can be pigs, I don't think there's a female here that hasn't been groped and propositioned. Multiple times. That is obviously not what I'm talking about. I really really really hope you are right, and things like the Muslim Rape Game never happen in Canada. I'd really really really like to believe that if I'm at a New Year's Eve party, 250 Canadian men at the party would not suddenly decide to rape me while 1000 other Canadian men stood by and cheered them on.

Yes, you are misunderstanding me. I agreed with you that violence seems to be a naturally occurring human phenomena so I don't think it will ever be eliminated from any country or religion. I respect your experiences with Islam but they are different from mine. When you visit your sister (Egypt?), you're under their protection and likely do not experience the things I have. Yes, I believe spousal abuse is tolerated in Islam in Canada. And in many other Muslim countries, it is not just acceptable but expected. When I see neighbor women getting cuffed across the back of the head, have my hand slapped away by a man because I dared to hand food tickets to his wife instead of their 6 year old son, get assaulted because I dared to tell a man No on something he's being clearly unreasonable about, when I can't accept a job offer in Saudi because others who have worked there warn me about how I'll be treated and/or killed, when I see a group of Muslims attack an Israeli girl on a hometown Facebook page telling her she should kill herself and they hope all her family in Israel are killed.....yes, it is tolerated and acceptable. It makes me wonder if they treat their wives like that public, how much worse is it at home? But I dare not say anything or I'm a racist Islamophobe.

Individual people can and do certainly interpret things however they want. How do you explain entire countries based on the violent interpretations? Does the religion still bear NO responsibility? I agree that violence is a naturally occurring human phenomena. Take out the extreme fundies and the terrorists from all religions and I still think Islam has more than its fair share of beliefs that promote violence.

I believe it is a factor. Not the only one. Either it's okay to beat and kill your wife in Islam or it's not. If it's acceptable in Islam, then it's a bigger factor than we know. If it's not acceptable in Islam, it certainly seems to be one of those things that Islam tolerates. This is just one example.

I asked that question a while ago: At what point can the religion be blamed for the way its followers are acting on it? And the answer was given: At NO point is the religion in any way responsible.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/mosque-shooting-narrative-1.3958357 This made me chuckle....it's all here in this thread!

No worries

I don't know what you mean here. I'm just saying that I haven't been here for a long time, but I can already see from Dialamah's posts that she is a very compassionate person. Expressing her compassion for the parents doesn't mean she has no compassion for the ones who died.

She shouldn't have to mention both. Compassion for ALL the victims goes without saying.

It seems like an awful lot for just one person to accomplish - just getting that kind of weaponry in Canada can't be easy. Or maybe it is, I can't say I've ever shopped for an AK-47. I wonder if they will find he wasn't working alone?

I've wondered the same thing - so many rules that limit how well they can integrate. How does it affect a child to see everyone else outside enjoying the sun on their face, the wind in their hair, eating over at their friend's house for dinner, swimming lessons with their class, playing with the neighborhood children or schoolmates and you are excluded from all of it? You either get angry at the ones who are enjoying it all, or you get angry at all the rules.

That makes me sad for that little girl I travel a lot - internationally and domestically. About a year ago, a female agent took me aside for a pat down (I don't know why, maybe random) I had pat downs before, but nothing like that day.....she spent an exhorbitant amount of time feeling around and in between my breasts, even felt around my crotch area. I was wearing leggings, not much to hide there. I looked over as she was doing it to see a line up of men closely watching her. I was mortified by how intimate the search was. I swore the next time they wanted to pat me down, I was going to ask it to be done in a private room, as is my right. I've requested that 2 times since.

I'm just discovering my political compass. But here is where I am today, apparently.

Random white guys who join Islamic extremism.............Perfect. Now we have to fight radical Islam AND Alexandre.

Youd have to ask the women why they chose that option.

Well, of course there's other places to get healthcare. What if you cant afford those other places? I have lots of friends in the US who go to PP for Healthcare because that's what they can afford and they are darn grateful for it.

I don't blame them. Pro-Lifers are a pretty violent bunch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood_2015_undercover_videos_controversy The smear campaign also resulted in a gunman killing 3 people at a Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs.

I think everyone does. Al Capone was American and I've toured his tunnels in Moose Jaw.

....the irony makes my brain hurt.

OK. I'm done with you. The facts have been presented to you every time you screech about it, and you still refuse to even open the links. When someone basically says, "I don't care what the facts say!!! I'm going to stick to what I want to believe!!"......yeah, I'm done.

You can disagree with the facts all you want, Betsy. You can scream it, bold it, enlarge the letters and make them red. It doesn't change the facts.

Well, you answered #1 yourself in the first sentence of #2....... I'm going to go with the facts on this one, Betsy and leave you alone with your.......errr.......ummmm........."common sense" which seems to override facts and data.