dialamah

Funny thing is that throughout history, its been because 'society' has been put above the individual that has contributed to human success.

The refugees themselves will decide when the land they are on has become inhospitable to human life. Almost a foregone conclusion since we are doing so little to mitigate the effects of climate change. Its not just people trying to find a place to live, but the economic cost of climate change that will contribute to collapse of society as we know it.

Ok. That doesn't negate the fact that there are tens of thousands of companies that treat their employees like crap, or that many "good" non-union employers are good because they don't want to be unionized. In many places people stay in terrible working conditions because they have neither power nor options. In my opinion that's a much worse breach of human rights than "forcing" an employer to treat workers decently. Why do you start with such an aggressive, belittling comment about someone else's opinion? Do you want civil discussion or an exchange of insults?

Imdeed, 'individual rights and freedoms' resulted in the formation of unions because too often corporations treated their "human capital" as poorly as possible. Where there are no unions, they still do. The track record of corporations demonstrates that they'll generally sacrifice people's welfare in pursuit of profit, and an individual has little power in comparison. Anti-union sentiment is kinda the same as anti-vaxxer sentiment; the reasons these things exist and how they've been a benefit to all of us has been forgotten.

Turkey introduces law that would force young girls to marry the men who rape them. What do you think of this, Altai? Is it not one of the most disgusting and cruel laws to be proposed? Can you explain the mindset of people who would punish a daughter/sister for being raped by condemning her to live with her rapist for the rest of her life?

And Dr. Stephan Xenakis had this to say about Khadr and Welner: Welner spent what - 7 hours? - with Khadr, and then went off to interview his jailers. Xenakis spent 200 hours with Khadr. Who do you suppose is going to understand him better? Oh, btw - you are "misinformed"; you said: He did on May 15, 2015 - in person, in front of several cameras. He told his prison psychiatrist that he renounces terrorism. So, that's at least twice. And in many interviews he's reiterated his desire to live a peaceful "ordinary" life, and has advised young people not to take the same path he did.

Why do conservatives always rush to throw their humanity out the window? Whether it's imprisoning children in Guantanamo or ripping them from their parents to neglect them in detention centers, refusing abortions to women (and threatening them with the death penalty for having an abortion), or denigrating LGBTQ, conservatives always seem only too happy to heap abuse on anyone who is "not just like them", which in the West is straight, white and Christian(ish). Do they have some pathetic need to make themselves feel superior at the expense of everybody else?

So, who should be put into Guantanamo for wrongfully killing non-combatants here. The people who visited death on the farmers are adults; they should know the difference between right and wrong and know that it's wrong to kill civilians - that's just murder. There is no excuse for this war crime, right? So, why aren't the people who ordered this strike, and the drone operators, in front of a criminal court for their war crimes?

Yeah, a 15-year-old, brainwashed by his father and sent to Afghanistan, caught in a firefight, the details of which are murky, accused of killing an American, about which there is conflicting evidence, held in Guatanamo for 13 years, and tortured to force a confession. Several courts ruled in his favor, including the US Supreme Court, which criticized the process under which Khadr was convicted in the US. Who is the piece of garbage, exactly? A 15-year-old held in jail for 13 years, for a crime he may or may not have committed, or the government/systems/public opinion who refused to treat him according to our own human-rights laws?

Trudeau didn't "bring him back"; he returned to Canada in 2012, under the Conservatives. Since you apparently have no clue what the situation around Khadr was, here's a link that lays out a timeline and some relevant facts.

Yeah, I agree. I'm already tired of this story, please we can move on.

Oh, you just cheered me up immensely - not cause I was right, but for the humor! Love it! Thank you!

Too funny ... this is precisely how I see you in your comments about Muslims and anyone who disagrees with you, such as myself and MH. Back at'cha.

Clearly, if the Muslim-housing on the list is "taxpayer-funded bigotry-housing", so is the rest of the housing on the list. It's why they are on the list - they all fall into the same category, however you choose to describe that category.

Was that in Richmond yesterday?

Oh, you mean when you/Argus screams about how all Islamic countries want to put gays to death, and I say Egypt does put gays in jail, but has no death penalty for homosexuality, you and Argus claim I'm holding Egypt up as "Shining Example" of gay rights? Or if you/Argus claim that pedophilia and wife beating is legal and common in Muslim countries and I point out that Egypt has a law against marriage under age 18 and wife beating, albeit not as well enforced as they could be, you and Argus again claim I'm holding Egypt up as a "Shining Example" of female equality? If contradicting the hyperbolic bullshit you guys spew is holding up a country as a "Shining Example", the only thing I can suggest is that you failed reading comprehension in grade school, and nobody bothered to tell you. Really? What're worse names than racist, bigot and Islamophobe? Anyway, if you don't like those labels applied to your posts, don't express opinions that are so clearly bigoted and Islamophobic. Easy-peasy.

I agree with this. While I believe places like Tunisia are trying hard (or were, I haven't checked back in a while) to address these sorts of things, I am disappointed in places like Egypt and SA, where there seems to be only lip service to the concept of gender equality. Many immigrant communities do have a higher rate of violence against women than non-immigrant communities. Interestingly, studies show that Christian communities have a higher rate of violence against women than non-religious communities, because the Bible explicitly teaches that women must submit to their husbands and both Christian husbands and Christian leaders take that very seriously. And, while Canada isn't a religious country per se, many of our social customs are from the Bible - and I think there is still an expectation among too many men that 'women should submit' - even men who've never been to a Church, and even if they can't clearly articulate why they become angry enough to hit/kill a woman. Another factor is our culture's teaching that men must be "strong", which translates into men being allowed to show two emotional states - sexual arousal or anger. Islamic culture does allow men more emotional freedom, I believe, but at the same time, it still has a much more pervasive belief in the subordination of women. It's a complex topic, and trying to distill it down to religion - and religion alone - is pointless, because so many religious people (Christian or Muslim or other) don't beat or rape women and condemn those who do. And when you get two such 'cult followers' with opposing viewpoints, there's a 'religious war' in the making. Right now, we have the Islamists on the other side insisting that Westerners want to destroy Islam/Islamic countries and non-Muslims on the other side claiming that Muslims want to take over the Western world and destroy Western freedoms and democracy. Most Muslims have no interest in destroying Western society, and most Westerners have no interest in destroying Islam - but the loud-mouthed, simple-minded extremist mindset aren't happy with this, and keep on with their propaganda. Just as "moderate Muslims" need to speak out against Islamic extremists, I think 'moderate Westerners" need to speak out against our own, anti-Muslim extremists. I think rigidity and orthodoxy is what drives the worst of religion. I have a very devout Catholic girlfriend - her faith enhances her humanity, and she's neither rigid nor orthodox, open to other ideas and beliefs. For her Catholicism is the path, but not the only path. I don't have any rigid/orthodox Christian friends - when I run across them, I am repelled by their hatefulness and how does one make friends with a person who repels one? All the Muslims I personally know are neither rigid nor orthodox; the only ones of that sort I've run across are online. Discussions with them tend not to go well, like some of the discussions I've had here with similar people. In high school, after I converted to JW, I spent lunch hours debating Biblical teachings with more mainstream Christians. Nobody changed any minds, that I recall; mind-changing has to come from within I guess. Still, when I got to the point of questioning my own Christian beliefs, those discussions did lend some insight into just how open to interpretation religious texts are, and that there was really no proof that any of us had the one and only 'correct' interpretation. One thing I always did like about my Muslim brother-in-law is that he believes everybody, even non-Muslims, could go to heaven. It is all up to Allah, and though Islam is clearly the best path - it isn't the only path, despite what extremists might claim. He's a devout Muslim, but like my Catholic friend, his faith enhances his humanity rather than detracting from it. Faith of any sort is a double-edged sword and perhaps that is God's test for us, whatever we call him - choosing the form of belief that enhances one's humanity, or detracts from it.

Clearly, you did not click on the link Rue provided. Just saying he's wrong doesn't make it so.

I did once take offense to Rue referring to immigrants from the ME as smelling bad. I may have misunderstood his context in that particular instance. But I would never accuse him of Islamophobia, because: He doesn't always harp on the evils of Muslims; He doesn't choose carefully curated anti-Muslim stories to prove the evil of Muslims; He doesn't reject facts or common sense in favor of hysteria about "whats happening in Europe" or "Sharia law is coming once Muslims reach 10% of the population", etc; He doesn't reject every "good news" story about Muslims as being too rare to mean anything or part of a combined media/government conspiracy to fool Canadians; He often talks about the humanity we all share, good and bad, whatever our creed, country or skin color. Those four things are what I consider the main differences between "critics of Islam" and Islamaphobics. Your posting history clearly demonstrates which label you've earned. Yes, many Pakistanis have beliefs with which I disagree and disaprove. Claiming that we're importing these beliefs because X number of Pakistanis in Pakistan support them and we have immigrants from Pakistan is essentially fear-mongering. Why? Glad you asked. 1. Personality traits of immigrants tend to show that they're more open to new experiences, new cultures and are more progressive than the conservatives, who tend to stay home; 2. We choose immigrants from the more highly educated, who are least likely to subscribe to the more conservative beliefs of whatever religion they are; 3. While there have been some high-profile cases, there hasn't been an epidemic of honor or blasphemy killings among Pakistani populations in Canada. If we were truly importing people who believed strongly enough in those precepts to act on them, that would not be the case; 4. Virtually every survey or study done of immigrant populations show that first generation immigrants are more law-abiding than born-here Canadians, and that most of them become integrated with Canadian culture by the third generation which means they believe in gender equality and freedom of religion, and do not think honor killings or wife beating is acceptable, even if their parents/grandparents were more conservative with those kinds of values. You seem to have a cartoonish vision of an extremist Muslim, brandishing a sword and slaying people (or raping little girls) as the standard type who come to Canada. You also seem to think that this same cartoon is repeated with each generation of Muslims born here. There is nothing to back up this vision of yours ... except, I would say, your own fear and dislike of Muslims.

Thanks for doing the research; I figured that might be the case, given who posted it, but didn't feel like doing the research on it. It was illogical to me that somehow Muslims would be the only ones to have every thought of or attempted this, especially given the many housing options provided by other organizations I've seen. But this won't make any difference, of course - it's open season on Muslims and facts are eagerly ignored and dismissed in the rush to condemn Muslims for anything they do. Or don't do, as the case may be.

Ok well thanks for your explanation.

That's an odd accusation. Why do you think talking about what happened to indigeuous kids is "hate and fear mongering"? Its not like I've suggested you or even Canadians in general are like this. It is off-topic though, so if you don't like it you should report it, you won't have to see it plus I'd get my wrists slapped. If there's amy "hate and fear mongering" here, its coming from those who take the example of a single individual and use that to claim all people of that group are the same.

Some day, I hope you have the experience of yourself or a loved one accused of a crime of which you are innocent, and the pressure brought to bear by the criminal justice system to "confess" in return for a reduced sentence, an end to the financial cost, an end to the fear and uncertainty. Such an experience might have you questioning "confessions" obtained through plea deals. Most guilty verdicts in this country and the States are arrived at through plea deals, not by examining the evidence through a trial. Yes, you should assume I do, instead of asking me. If you did ask me, and God forbid you do that in case you discover I'm not a paper cutout of some idea you have in your head, you'd find out I don't have an opinion either way because I don't know enough about him, or his situation. Not to mention I think this whole impeachment thing is a waste of time; it will accomplish nothing but more partisanship regardless of its ultimate outcome. Coercion should never be a feature of our justice system, imo. Plea deals, and the way they're arrived at, let guilty people go free and make criminals out of innocent people. I think you condemn Khadr because you like easy, black and white answers, certainty, the assurance that you and yours are better than "they" are - whoever "they" might be. "They" are expendable, barely human, certainly not entitled to basic human rights, presumption of innocence or due process. People like that abound in "shithole" countries and they are the ones holding power, imposing their laws as convenient, using torture to coerce confessions, making scapegoats of innocent people. In Canada, at least, we still respect our own laws and are willing to make reparation when we realize we screwed up.

Did you know that the indigenuous kids were deliberately starved in those places, as an experiment? Pedophiles sought jobs at residential schools, for obvious reasons. Not just priests, but support staff as well, custodians, gardeners, nuns. The kids would lie awake at night, in their beds, waiting till the choice - or choices- for the night were made before they'd feel safe enough to sleep. If a girl became pregnant as a result of the sexual abuse, the baby was taken and - at best adopted out, but many died and were buried on the grounds. These kids were horribly traumatized by being ripped from their families, often violently and as young as four or five, taken by cattle truck to a place where they could not communicate because they didn't know English or French and were severely punished if they spoke their own language. They were deliberately separated from siblings or cousins, had their hair cut, put in iniforms, given a number and were told they could not use the name given them by their family They were starved, beaten, sexually abused, made to feel shame for their culture and skin and forced to convert to Christianity. 5000 kids died at these residential schools. Most of the rest endured years of trauma. There was no interest in preparing these kids for Canadian society; the goal was to assimilate them in the most brutal way possible. ETA: yeah I would have preferred to keep them out in the bush as an alternative to what did happen to them.

But this 15-year-old kid, in the middle of battle, should somehow have shown more presence of mind and ability to figure out who's who than adult soldiers. Right. You are wrong. The Canadian government sent people over to "interview" him; both the American and Canadian courts condemned the way in which these intertogations were carried out. This is part of why the Canadian government ended up paying $10 million bucks. Wonder if you'd feel the same about a 15-year-old boy, picked up by the Iranians, accused of killing an Iranian despite conflicting evidence, handed over to the Russians to spend 8 years in prison, being tortured until he finally confessed. So it serms. Why is it that if a teenage girl wears a hijab or a niqab, she's been "brainwashed" or is "oppressed" but a teenage boy who is "raised to be a terrorist", he's neither been brainwashed nor oppressed. He was 15. He was brainwashed. He was in the midst of battle. The idea that he should have known "right from wrong" and done nothing at that point in time is ludicrous. The soldiers who found him - adults - weren't even sure what was going on, and you somehow expect a 15-year-old to know and do better. "Khadr confessed to murdering Christopher Speer, a medic who rushed to his aid,” tweeted Jason Kenney, leader of the Progressive Conservative Association of Alberta. That is incorrect according to testimony from the American soldiers who were there. “I just remember being dumbstruck that there was someone being alive in there,” a Delta Force soldier told the Star during an interview for the CBC documentary Guantanamo’s Child. “After all that bombing, after all the ordinance we dropped in there, somebody was still alive.” As the soldiers cleared the compound, their weapons were drawn. They did not expect any survivors. A Pentagon report written after the firefight interviewing the soldier who shot Khadr, identified only as OC-1, raises the possibility that someone else was alive in the compound when the grenade that ultimately killed Speer was thrown. “He heard moaning coming from the back of the compound. The dust rose up from the ground and began to clear. He then saw a man facing him lying on his right side,” the report states. “The man had an AK-47 on the ground beside him and the man was moving. OC-1 fired one round striking the man in the head and the movement ceased. Dust was again stirred by this rifle shot. When the dust rose, he saw a second man sitting up facing away from him leaning against the brush. This man, later identified as Khadr, was moving . . . . OC-1 fired two rounds both of which struck Khadr in the back.” Randy Watt, the commander who wrote that report after the action, later revised it to state that only one person was alive when the grenade was thrown. In an interview, he attributed the confusion to the “fog of battle.” He changed the report, he said, because he thought Khadr had been killed due to the severity of his injuries. The report, and testimony from Watt and OC-1, would have been key evidence at Khadr’s Guantanamo trial, which was halted when the Pentagon offered him a plea deal. A condition of the deal was that Khadr confess to killing Speer, which he did during an emotional 2010 hearing at Guantanamo where Speer’s widow Tabitha was present. Once released, Khadr did not deny throwing the grenade as his lawyers have insisted. He said he simply does not know and hopes he didn’t." Khadr probably didn't kill anyone.