GWiz

Hmmm, doesn't seem to leave us with much choice, does it? Let's analyze this... 1. Harper and the CONservatives... "Conservative" in name only - big and free spending Government as evidenced by record deficits of approx. 67 BILLION DOLLARS, the waste of the Liberal's "rainy day fund", no accountability as to where the record deficit was spent for the benefit of the general public, the largest untendered purchase of Military equipment in Canadian history with the F-35, 1 Billion spent for 1 weekend on G8/G20, Corporate Tax Cuts, 2% GST cut resulting in said record deficit, "nanny state" interference with Canada's Banks which weathered the recession without needing a bailout by sound Liberal implemented policies, tax payer money spent on advertising for their own benefit, and on, and on, you get the idea... International - Canada is no longer seen as an "honest broker" because of unfettered support for Israel, destroying Canada's long standing ADVANTAGE in trade with China, destroying Canada's favourable position on the environment (reneging on Kyoto accord etc.), Harper position re: UN leaving Canada without it's say on the security counsel, and on, and on, you get the idea... Canada-US relationship - Like Diefenbaker and Mulroney before him willing without question to sell/give Canadian sovereignty and independence over to the US and others effectively making Canada a "sub" state to foreign interests... In Parliament - Prorogued Government twice rather than face opposition, a bevy of bad Ministers that have gone afoul in their duties as evidenced by the likes of Bev Oda, total disregard for the workings of parliament, stacking the still unelected senate with conservatives contrary to campaign promises, and on, and on, you get the idea... I gotta stop for a bit before continuing and I'll have to make "my opinions" into it's own thread because I didn't think it'd be this big a list for each party... OR maybe you'd like to take over and start the Liberals and NDP for me (Seperate thread?)...

Seems fair... So that means that NONE of the TAXES the public employees pay should go to the services YOU use every day either, right? So; the public employees TAXES should NOT be used to pay for any road you drive on to go to work, the fire or police services to protect you and/or your property, the schools your children attend, in short NOTHING that YOU benefit from in YOUR daily life... As I said, sounds perfectly fair to me... Now all YOU have to do is inform the Government that YOU will in the future PAY for all those services yourself and they should no longer deduct those sums of TAXES from ANY public employees...

Why tell me? TELL THEM that they can't do it... This board isn't the Gov. of Canada website you know... Maybe you didn't judging by that rant...

Well, having now heard and seen Ignatieff speak live on a few occasions my impressions of him have improved, which is a good thing since what I see of him on the boob tube doesn't work for me too well... My view of Ignatieff is that he's esentially NOT a "typical" politician, his ideas and assessments are fairly good, but since he's not all that politically astute he listens too much to the "advisors" mostly left over from the Chretien/Martin era... Being in the middle I really can't see anything better to either the right or the left soooo - that's where I'm at and it is what it is... In my riding it doesn't matter anyway since the vote will split exactly as before, except maybe a few more votes for the useless CON Joy Smith... If it was me leading the Liberals Canada would become GREAT (utopia even), but I'm not and it won't... One never knows once a writ is dropped, just maybe Ignatieff will "shine" and USE all the arrows the CONS have given him to use against them and the Grits will come out ahead... One can hope, eh...

I agree because that's pretty much what I said... The BIG difference is the US (especially) and the rest of the world are ACTIVELY engaging China while Harper is sitting on his ass spouting off about China's human rights record... China is listening and acting accordingly so where does that leave Canada in China's growth and prosperity? Canada has traditionally had a BIG HISTORIC EDGE in relations with China that Harper has managed to pretty much lose... So yeah, I blame Harper BIG TIME for that lose of a favourable relationship with China... http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/china-chine/bilateral_relations_bilaterales/booklet-brochure.aspx How come Harper hasn't invited President HU Jintao or even Premier WEN Jiabao for a visit yet, especially when HU Jintao was next door visiting Obama? - However, relations with China have also been strained during Harper's tenure. After Parliament unanimously adopted a motion giving honorary Canadian citizenship to the Dalai Lama in 2006, China threatened to use its considerable economic strength to penalize Canada. The Dalai Lama won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989 for his lifelong struggle for Tibetan autonomy and his pursuit of peace. He has lived in exile since 1958, when China annexed Tibet. In 2007, Harper warned China not to threaten Canada with economic repercussions for bringing up the Asian country's human rights record and standing up for the rights of Canadians abroad. Harper was referring to the case of Huseyin Celil, a Canadian activist jailed in China for alleged terrorist links. - Nice to have "principles", but NOT if it hurts Canada and it's people economically, that's NOT a Prime Ministers job, is it? Harper's JOB is to do what's BEST for Canada and he's FAILED miserably at it...

Tanks in Afghanistan, especially since they had no air conditioning, where a WASTE of money that could have been used for some helicopters that WOULD have helped our troops 100X more than tanks... Just as 100 4th generation NEW planes NOW with supporting refuelling capability to get them to places like Afghanistan, and at 1/2 the price, is worth a LOT more than a few toys that'll sit on a runway in Canada in the future because they can't go anywhere just as our "airpower" can't go to Afghaistan today... Just sayin' Your choice...

You're getting further behind in your reading there's more to read now... Enjoy... (It covers and answers your comments)

Fair enough... Although if you look at the Liberal website the "middle" is more to the left than the right in many aspects, social, environment, health, child care, native rights, etc.... I'll post the ads next election... Frankly I haven't heard Layton EVER criticise the CONS without a "shot" at the Liberals included in ANY interview I've watched... Re: Home heating that's there in spades on the Liberal website PLUS, even better, the Liberals had a heating and insulation upgrade (renovations) grant for homeowners that the CONS cancelled... If the Liberals get elected those VERY POPULAR and important programs that spured jobs and helped the economy would return...

Might be a good point to mention that Manitoba has Canada's lowest unimployment rate (around 5%) as well as a significant housing shortage (which means jobs to build more houses)... A Win-win one could say... Just Sayin'

I didn't say it didn't... But don't tell Layton that, he thinks the party in power gives a damn what he thinks... When it's the CONS, they don't, and they know that throwing a single meaningless crumb Layton's way will keep Layton chirping and helping Harper keep the Liberals at bay... The Liberals have always been friendlier to NDP social policies the NDP advocate than even the more moderate PCs... NOW the CONS have moved even further right under Harper... However given the realities of our political system, to me, especially being a centrist, as I've said, it makes MORE sense to vote for a party that more closely reflects my values... For an NDPer, or some left leaning Liberals, it's a choice of MAYBE having some influence in a minority Government or supporting an actual Government that shares some of there views and has the power to implement them even in a minority Government... Just something to think about... I'm truly saddened at how much the world's view of Canada has changed under Harper... Something Layton and the NDP chould be saddened by too...

The United States threatened to move it's entire automotive related commerce to Mexico, negating the Auto Pact, if NAFTA was reopened or cancelled... - The implementation in 1965 of the Auto Pact, which established free trade in automobiles between Canada and the United States, served to promote the already strong economic ties between the two countries. The historic signing in 1989 of the U.S.-Canada Free Trade Agreement (FTA), which established tariff-free trade on a multi-sectoral basis, set the stage for an enormous increase in the amount of bilateral commerce between Canada and the United States. In 1994, the fundamental principles of trade liberalization established by the FTA were further expanded, both in terms of scope and coverage, under the North American Free Trade Agreement, which added Mexico to the regime. These trade agreements have helped fuel unparalleled economic growth, with bilateral trade between Canada and the United States nearly tripling during the past twelve years. - http://www.buyusa.gov/harrisburg/can_ustrade.html Aren't you glad he made that decision NOT to reopen NAFTA even if it was heavily slanted in the US's favour? Doesn't the center have BOTH a left and a right side component to it? It does... Therefore wouldn't the party in the center of politics be vulnerable from BOTH the left and the right in a multi party system like Canada's? A centrist party is thus vulnerable... Since the Right of center in Canada has only one party (since the Reform and PCs merged) it can draw from the center (the Liberals) easier than the far left (the NDP)... Since the Left of center in Canada has only one National Party (the NDP) it also draws from the center (the Liberals) easier than the far right (the CONS)... Note: The Bloc, also on the left, draws primarily from the Liberals as well in Quebec... Add to all that the FACT that the NDP knows it's unlikely to gain votes from the Right it TARGETS the Liberals to gain support through it's advertising etc., even when the Liberals are NOT the Government...

Influencing is not implementing, and NOTHING that the party in power found truly "objectionable" has ever been implemented by a party in power... That would constitute blackmail by said opposition party on the party in power which is illegal... Especially if done for the sole purpose of keeping a Government in power... Also, if all three or two of the opposition parties share a position on a policy that the Government implements how can one of the three or four parties involved take ALL of the credit for it? http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18039&view=findpost&p=627793

Of course... Do YOU know WHY he did? No, I don't realize any such thing... Could you explain to me why you think it does?

Wouldn't want to be accused of being "anti-American" ya know... I actually BELIEVE what I say in my sig, since I said it...

No problem, that's what I thought...

Why don't YOU tell us? With back-up like direct links please... BTW Corporations don't count since that's NOT individuals in this country... Their CEO's and CFO's home servants however would count, like anybody working for them outside the Corporate structure of the company's they control would count... Staffs of a plane or yacht would count unless those planes or yachts are registered as company assets, in which case they wouldn't count... Heck to make it easier, why not just include all the staffs of everyone earning over $50 MILLION DOLLARS a year with total assets over $100 MILLION (way below "ultra rich" status I know so I'm trying to be helpful here) just to give you a bigger number to get back to us with... We'll all anxiously await your answer...

VOTE? What vote?

I was never a "Chretien Liberal" so I was certainly objective about the Chretien years and to some extent I agree... Then again I look at the overall balance sheet of achievements vs failures and the Chretien/Martin era was overall pretty good for Canada in that it turned the ship around economically during some extremely turbulent seas including the potential breakup of Canada itself... Considering the Chretien Government followed a Government that "sold out" Canada to US interests via Free Trade/NAFTA; being able to bring Canada into balanced budgets, surplus trade and even paying down Canada's principal debt, PLUS establishing a "rainy day fund" for future needs was no small achievement... Since I have never moved from my position as a centrist (somewhat right fiscally, meaning prudent and wise spending and NOT tax cuts) (slightly left socially meaning support for those in real need but not runnung any facets of free enterprise beyond that) whether the Liberal Party wobbles a little left or right really doesn't have much affect on whether the Liberals are closest to MY views... For someone like me, and perhaps I'm more unique than I think I am, things like the Sponsorship Scandal where no one elected was directly involved and where in fact what happened was detrimental to the Governments efforts to keeping the country together to me is nothing but background noise involving a sum of money that every Government wastes every year in some form or another... I don't like it, and I say so loudly, but it's not going to make me vote one way or another... One very important aspect I consider when looking at the party portion of the overall picture is historical values and after the performance of the Governments of Diefenbaker and Moroney I have long a go determined that the CONS (by any name) are not something I could ever support federally... In regards to the NDP I simply can't find any logical reason to support them on a federal level since they have no chance to implement anything I believe in because they will never be the Government... Quite frankly taking credit for something implemented in parliament by either of the two parties who have been in Government I find rather irksome because it wasn't the NDP that passed said policy and have no right to take any credit for anything passed while chiding the party that actually implemented the policy with the next breath... In that Layton is the worst leader the NDP have ever had... A complete politico who would sell his own mother to gain an extra meaningless seat in parliament to make himself look good... However should I ever find a local candidate running in my riding in the likes of an Ed Broadbend or even a Gary Doer if running against a less than stellar Liberal I would assess the possibility of casting my vote for them but only if I could be assured that they would vote in parliament based on princple and not party ideology as both Broadbend and Doer did on a number of occasions... BUT only if the NDP party had a good and pragmatic leader... I've always found it quite interesting, especially under Layton, that the NDP spend about 70% of their TIME and money deriding another opposition party (the Liberals) rather than the Government (the CONS)... I wonder why that is?!?!

http://siobhancoady.liberal.ca/ Just so people like me who didn't know her can get to know her... Good people should get supported...

Glad to know you...

Pretty much how it works... Post China's Olympics National Pride in China is soaring and the things the Chinese Government is doing IS (mostly) for the benefit of the people and not the Government... Far from perfect but generally in a good direction... Too bad because of Harper Canada is being left out of the new Chinese prosperity...

Read all three party websites... PLUS the websites of ministers and critics, they can be even more telling of party policy and position... Being informed is never a bad thing...

NOPE! It's all about F-R-E-E-D-O-M, and that spells FREEDOM, let FREEDOM reign no matter who it costs (Cept Corporations that support Walker of course)...

My bad... Got the NAVY part right though... Now a public servant or Corporate Giant since both are sucking at the public teet? Do you prefer Black or White sheep? Yours are badly neglected as of late...

Just for some balance... http://www.liberal.ca/