thomas Posted October 12, 2010 Report Posted October 12, 2010 I'm doing a project on Diefenbaker's loss in the 1963 election and I recall someone telling me that JFK had helped fund the liberal's during that election but I cant find any sources on it. Would any of you happen to know information about that or know of sources on that? If so that would be great. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 It is well known that Diefenbaker's own flag officers ignored him in favor of going on alert with the Americans (Cuban Missile Crisis - 1962). This was portrayed as weakness against communism and surely eroded domestic political support. During the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, Diefenbaker wavered, refusing at first to support tough US action against the Soviet Union despite his strong personal anti-Communism. When his government had still not resolved its nuclear weapons policy by 1963, it was defeated in the House of Commons and then by the voters. To Diefenbaker, the loss was evidence that Kennedy and his cronies had conspired with the Liberals to get rid of him. http://www.prime-ministers.ca/diefenbaker/issues.php Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 Ah yes...the good old days. I recall the leftovers of one of Dief's political campaigns through B.C. Foot prints (shoes) were spray painted onto the sidewalks with the slogan "Follow John"...every-freakin'-where. Outlasted him... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) I was once questioned at an inquest in a Diefenbunker.... Edited October 13, 2010 by M.Dancer Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 I was once questioned at an inquest in a Diefenbunker.... Yer Cold War Dr Strangelove variety? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 Yer Cold War Dr Strangelove variety? Somewhat..I remember going down a few stories, then through an airlock...then a long corridor with doors that had name plates on them that read...Premier Ministre, Chef du Opposition, ministre de Quelque chose...etc etc... It was after the ordeal that I was told that it was one of the bunkers, and that Bomarcs weren't far away either... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 Somewhat..I remember going down a few stories, then through an airlock...then a long corridor with doors that had name plates on them that read...Premier Ministre, Chef du Opposition, ministre de Quelque chose...etc etc... It was after the ordeal that I was told that it was one of the bunkers, and that Bomarcs weren't far away either... Somewhat? Sounds like the real McCoy to me. Out this way all we have is old Pine Tree Line radar bases slowly rotting away in the bush. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 Somewhat? Sounds like the real McCoy to me. Out this way all we have is old Pine Tree Line radar bases slowly rotting away in the bush. I was 15 at the time (1974)so my memory is hazy. Suffice to say it was as surreal as the movie in question. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 I'm doing a project on Diefenbaker's loss in the 1963 election and I recall someone telling me that JFK had helped fund the liberal's during that election but I cant find any sources on it. Would any of you happen to know information about that or know of sources on that? If so that would be great. JFK hated Diefenbaker. Poisonous relationship from the start. That's where the infamous 'Not bowing down to Washington' quote came from over nuclear weapons...and Dief's split caucus. Kennedy did go so far as to send some of his people up to work incognito (not too hard in those days) for the Liberals. Not too sure if they had much effect other than telling which way the political winds were blowing. The Cuban Missile Crisis sealed Dief's fate at home and on the World stage...second guessed the Americans re: their U2 photos showing ICBMs. Bad... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 .... The Cuban Missile Crisis sealed Dief's fate at home and on the World stage...second guessed the Americans re: their U2 photos showing ICBMs. Bad... Well, he had to come up with an encore to cancelling the Avro Arrow! Canadians are still pissed off over that. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) Well, he had to come up with an encore to cancelling the Avro Arrow! Canadians are still pissed off over that. I look at it as a much better use for fellows like Jim Chamberlain. But then, I'm often accused of being too close to you Yankee devils. Married one of you n' all... Edited October 13, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 But then, I'm often accused of being too close to you Yankee devils. Married one of you n' all... The mail order shop were sold out of phillipinos? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 The mail order shop were sold out of phillipinos? A fellow I know actually did that. Seems creepy... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 A fellow I know actually did that. Seems creepy... I know a few who did, and they seem very happy. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 JFK hated Diefenbaker. Poisonous relationship from the start. That's where the infamous 'Not bowing down to Washington' quote came from over nuclear weapons...and Dief's split caucus. Kennedy did go so far as to send some of his people up to work incognito (not too hard in those days) for the Liberals. Not too sure if they had much effect other than telling which way the political winds were blowing. The Cuban Missile Crisis sealed Dief's fate at home and on the World stage...second guessed the Americans re: their U2 photos showing ICBMs. Bad... Diefenbaker understood what was under the Kennedy vineer..that they were not some sweet big toothed group of legitimate princes but simply the offspring of a bootlegging mafia don..Kennedy really expect everyone to respect him because he was president..why that would be like giving respect to the Bush Cheney gang...The origins of American wealth that facilitate the installation of a president must be taken into account ---and Diefenbaker was an insider who knew he was dealing with mafia trash. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 13, 2010 Report Posted October 13, 2010 I look at it as a much better use for fellows like Jim Chamberlain. But then, I'm often accused of being too close to you Yankee devils. Married one of you n' all... Yes, it was a boon for American aeronautics and the space program. No doubt about that. Hard not to think of the could-have-beens of a homegrown aeronautics industry, and for that Diefenbaker should roast in hell. Quote
Timothy17 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Posted October 23, 2010 Diefenbaker understood what was under the Kennedy vineer..that they were not some sweet big toothed group of legitimate princes but simply the offspring of a bootlegging mafia don..Kennedy really expect everyone to respect him because he was president..why that would be like giving respect to the Bush Cheney gang...The origins of American wealth that facilitate the installation of a president must be taken into account ---and Diefenbaker was an insider who knew he was dealing with mafia trash. If JFK was "mafia trash," then I wish the mafia would field more candidates He was one of the greatest, and most inspirational leaders in human history. Men like JFK give people at least a modicum of hope for the deeper decency of mankind. Het set a high bar on what we should expect from those who would rule us. Tim Quote "Error has no rights." "Ab illo benedicaris in cuius honore cremaberis. Amen." - Pope Pius XI, blessing a Protestant minister upon his request. The blessing is the one used over incense in the Catholic Mass, and translates, "Mayest thou be blessed by Him in Whose honor thou art to be burnt. Amen."
ToadBrother Posted October 23, 2010 Report Posted October 23, 2010 If JFK was "mafia trash," then I wish the mafia would field more candidates He was one of the greatest, and most inspirational leaders in human history. Men like JFK give people at least a modicum of hope for the deeper decency of mankind. Het set a high bar on what we should expect from those who would rule us. Tim Frankly, I think he was a second-rate president. Certainly not among the worst, but hardly at the top of the list. The guy he beat in the 1960 election, warts in all, was ultimately a much greater president. Hell, LBJ ultimately accomplished more then Kennedy. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 23, 2010 Report Posted October 23, 2010 Hell, LBJ ultimately accomplished more then Kennedy. LBJ seemed to spend his entire career until the presidency masquerading as a conservative democrat. Once he had power, he emulated his hero FDR and instituted a suite of social programs that stands to this day. Whether or not you agree, he had a lasting effect. He knew how to make things happen (much better than JFK and Obama do) and he did them. Civil Rights, Medicare, and the War on Poverty were some of the liberal programs he championed. Unfortunately, he threw the right wing a bone at the expense of the Vietnamese people by escalating the war in Southeast Asia - thinking that it wouldn't impact him domestically. As smart as he was, he couldn't have foreseen the cultural shift that happened during his presidency (1963-1968). Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
August1991 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) I'm doing a project on Diefenbaker's loss in the 1963 election and I recall someone telling me that JFK had helped fund the liberal's during that election but I cant find any sources on it. Would any of you happen to know information about that or know of sources on that? If so that would be great.I know of no source suggesting that Kennedy contributed money to Pearson's election in 1963 but no doubt Kennedy was happy with the Liberal return to power. Among other things, Diefenbaker had opposed installation of the US Bomarc missiles. In 1964, they were installed with "a Canadian finger on the trigger", as Pearson the Liberal put it. A good book to read is Newman's Renegade in Power written when Newman was still a good journalist and his ego was in check. LBJ seemed to spend his entire career until the presidency masquerading as a conservative democrat. Once he had power, he emulated his hero FDR and instituted a suite of social programs that stands to this day. Whether or not you agree, he had a lasting effect. He knew how to make things happen (much better than JFK and Obama do) and he did them.I agree, MH. When Johnson became president, it was as if Tip O'Neill entered the White House. It is more amazing that Johnson agreed to run beside Kennedy in 1960.Unfortunately, he threw the right wing a bone at the expense of the Vietnamese people by escalating the war in Southeast Asia - thinking that it wouldn't impact him domestically. As smart as he was, he couldn't have foreseen the cultural shift that happened during his presidency (1963-1968).Here, I disagree.The Korean War ended in 1953 and big issues in the late 1950s were Red China encroaching on Formosa or other islands in the Pacific. Castro decided to go Communist and newly independent states in Africa appeared to be doing the same. The Soviet Union and China were a united bloc. The Cold War seems a footnote now but it wasn't in 1963. In 1963, the Vietnam War was an important battle to oppose communism. With hindsight, Americans bore the burden to defend liberty and defeat tyranny. Eventually, the Soviet Union collapsed and Deng Tsiao Ping admitted that communism doesn't work. But in 1963, this was off in the distant future. I am one of the few people who doesn't see the Vietnam War as a loss for America. Rather, I see it as an important battle in the Cold War. Without Vietnam, I wonder whether America would have won the Cold War. So, I disagree that Johnson - as you put it - "threw the right wing a bone at the expense of the Vietnamese people by escalating the war in Southeast Asia". There was a lot more at stake. Edited October 24, 2010 by August1991 Quote
bloodyminded Posted October 31, 2010 Report Posted October 31, 2010 In 1963, the Vietnam War was an important battle to oppose communism. With hindsight, Americans bore the burden to defend liberty and defeat tyranny. Yes, we're all aware of the conventional pieties, rendered true solely because they were blandly stated....and still are, by the America-is-Always-Right crowd of historical revisionists. Also known as moral relativists and folks who embrace nationalism for the religion it actually is. What isn't a series of bland platitudes about Good versus Evil is the Pentagon Papers--solid and indisputable proof that officials were lying their way throughout the entire war of aggression. When you're deceiving your own people into war, you are not "defending liberty," August. By definition you're not. And only the Straussian, philosopher-king elitists would argue otherwise. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Michael Hardner Posted October 31, 2010 Report Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) And I still don't understand why Vietnam was so important. The country was lost to the communists anyway, and what was the result ? Edited October 31, 2010 by Michael Hardner Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 31, 2010 Report Posted October 31, 2010 And I still don't understand why Vietnam was so important. The country was lost to the communists anyway, and what was the result ? Ask Australia.....or Thailand....or Cambodia....or The Philippines. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted October 31, 2010 Report Posted October 31, 2010 Ask Australia.....or Thailand....or Cambodia....or The Philippines. Can I ask you instead ? Doesn`t seem worth the cost to me at the moment. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 31, 2010 Report Posted October 31, 2010 Can I ask you instead ? Doesn`t seem worth the cost to me at the moment. How do you measure such things? Canada made billions on the Vietnam war. The Americans continued the Cold War which the "West" eventually won. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.