Man Beheaded on Greyhound Bus

[Guest American Woman]

Link

When I read about an incident like this, it makes me wonder if drivers of public transportation should be armed. Also, I haven't traveled by bus since 9-11 so I'm wondering what kind of security, if any, passengers must go through.

A man was stabbed to death then beheaded on a Greyhound bus in an apparent random act of violence, according to an eyewitness

Garnet Caton, one of 37 passengers on the bus, said he witnessed the attack.

"We all heard this scream, this like blood-curdling scream," Caton told CBC Newsworld.

He alleged the suspect had a "large hunting knife" and repeatedly stabbed the victim "like 50 or 60 times."

"The attacker was calmy over top of the victim continually cutting him. I think the victim was gone at that point," Caton told the CBC.

He said the victim appeared to be sleeping before the attack and the suspect was not acting out of the ordinary.

The bus was evacuated, but Caton said he was one of a handful of witnesses who saw the suspect allegedly trying to behead the body.

The suspect later appeared at the front of the bus, he said.

"He calmly walked up to the front (of the bus) with (the victim's) head in his hand and the knife and then dropped the head in front of us," Caton said, adding he believes the suspect later returned to the back of the bus and was seen later "taunting police with the head in his hand out the window."

I find it difficult to believe that such a deliberate and vicious act could have been random. At any rate, what's the worst sentence he can be given in Canada? OR will he most likely be taking the insanity plea? And if he does, what's the worst that could happen in Canada-- anyone know? I would have to say one would have to be insane to commit such an act, especially if it was random. But how could someone be this disturbed without showing any sign of it? And how does one "calmly" stab someone "50 or 60 times?" Sounds as if this guy is as nuts as Manson.

[Fortunata]

Link

When I read about an incident like this, it makes me wonder if drivers of public transportation should be armed.

Armed? Because one passenger in thousands daily goes off the wall? What happened was unbelievable but lets not go off the deep end here.

At any rate, what's the worst sentence he can be given in Canada?

Life in prison with no chance of parole. Even if he pleaded insanity it is no guarantee he would get it - it's not that easy here either, and, I think, even if he did get it he can be sentenced to jail after his insanity wanes. Anyone know if this is right?

[bush_cheney2004]

Hard to say....however, severed heads are an Elizabethean tradition (e.g. Macbeth/Mcduff). More fascinating than the bizzare attack is the behavior of the 37 passengers. I suppose the screenplay rights and interviews are already in the works.

Prison in Canada?.....the perp will be out in ten years!

[Riverwind]

I find it difficult to believe that such a deliberate and vicious act could have been random.

Not hard for me to believe:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/...d-bus-stop.html

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...a3d&k=33814

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_school_shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Po...hnique_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

[Guest American Woman]

Armed? Because one passenger in thousands daily goes off the wall? What happened was unbelievable but lets not go off the deep end here.

No, not because one passenger in thousands goes off the wall, but because the possibility of passengers going off the wall exists. I think it's a normal reaction to read about something as horrible as this and think 'if only someone had had a gun, this likely could have been averted.' I don't think it's "going off the deep end" to have that reaction to such a horrific crime; I think it's a legitimate question to at least wonder if drivers should be armed. What about stun guns? Tasers? Pepper spray? To my knowledge, those are all considered weapons.

[blueblood]

Either this guy gets sent to the nuthouse for the insanity plea, or they might slap the dangerous offender deal on him.

I'm leaning to the nuthouse, who honestly does that? I'm surprised they took him alive actually.

[GostHacked]

The best sentence he could get is a shame to what I'd want. I'd have him die the same way his victim died.

[guyser]

Link

When I read about an incident like this, it makes me wonder if drivers of public transportation should be armed. Also, I haven't traveled by bus since 9-11 so I'm wondering what kind of security, if any, passengers must go through.

I dont think there is any security. I also dont think the driver should be armed since the incident rate is so low.

I find it difficult to believe that such a deliberate and vicious act could have been random.

From what I read and watched this morning, thats exactly what is being reported. Seems he sat there quietly and then went off.

Perhaps he was worried he might get stuck in Brandon. ....j/k.

At any rate, what's the worst sentence he can be given in Canada? OR will he most likely be taking the insanity plea? And if he does, what's the worst that could happen in Canada-- anyone know?

Life, 25 years, 15 years before he can ask for parole and then monitored for the rest of his life not to mention must report for life. But you will get those that say...oh I dunno, ten years or 5 years or something ridiculous like that.

I would have to say one would have to be insane to commit such an act, especially if it was random. But how could someone be this disturbed without showing any sign of it? And how does one "calmly" stab someone "50 or 60 times?" Sounds as if this guy is as nuts as Manson.

Insane, no doubt.

I dont know how the passengers could not or did not step into help. In the abscence of a gun , why would one not help out?

[bush_cheney2004]

Famous severed heads:

Sir Walter Raleigh

John the Baptist

Robespierre

Cicero

Oliver Cromwell (beheaded after exhumation)

[Fortunata]

No, not because one passenger in thousands goes off the wall, but because the possibility of passengers going off the wall exists.

That's crazy. By your logic then, we wouldn't let anyone skydive because of the possibility of a chute not opening, no more launches to space because of a very real possibility of a shuttle blowing up, etc. etc. Over reaction is not the way.

I think it's a normal reaction to read about something as horrible as this and think 'if only someone had had a gun, this likely could have been averted.'

Not in my world.

What about stun guns? Tasers? Pepper spray? To my knowledge, those are all considered weapons.

I don't know what stun guns are if you don't mean tasers and this country is already too taser happy. Pepper spray is good. That way when they break down on a lonely country road in the dark they won't be afraid of bears.

[AngusThermopyle]

Life, 25 years, 15 years before he can ask for parole and then monitored for the rest of his life not to mention must report for life. But you will get those that say...oh I dunno, ten years or 5 years or something ridiculous like that.

Actually not ridiculous at all Guyser. I just finished reading an article in the paper about a gang banger who was shot in Calgary. He was sentenced to 15 years without chance of parole for murder. When he was shot on the street in Calgary he would have been in his twelfth year if he wasn't actually walking free.

[fellowtraveller]

Greyhound has announced that in their marketing response to this incident that they intend to hack and slash prices so deeply it will leave your head spinning.

[capricorn]

In 2006, an Ottawa man was stabbed to death on one of our city buses.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2006...s-stabbing.html

As a result of this murder, undercover constables started patrolling some bus routes on January 2007.

In reaction to the fatal stabbing of 23-year-old Michael Oataway on OC Transpo bus route 118 on Sept. 21, undercover constables in training have been making appearances on select OC Transpo routes.

A number of incidents have put the importance of transit security on the minds of the community, the police force and city councillors. The increased concern has flung open the door to new security measures that have been talked about for years, but never implemented. One such measure is the introduction of special constables on OC Transpo buses.

Thirty-seven OC Transpo security officers have been chosen and trained to perform this role for the city. In addition to their role as security officers, these specially designated officials will have the authority to enforce the city's bylaws, certain provincial statues and some sections of the criminal code.

http://www.eastottawa.ca/article-48347-Und...by-January.html

Oatway's murderer was 17 at the time. Other than a brief court appearance on September 25, 2006 , I can't find any reference to his trial on the web. Where is he? In a juvenile home or free, I don't know.

I don't know how much safer bus riders feel since the constables came on the scene. But it seems to me that violent incidents have decreased

I heard a Greyhound co. spokeswoman say that they are reviewing their security measures as a direct result of this horrific event in Manitoba. I don't know what passenger screening methods or other security processes they presently have in place. The company really doesn't have a choice but to respond to whatever public pressure comes their way. They must be seen to do something to assuage their customers' fears.

As for the "alleged" killer (as CTV refers to him) we'll spend thousands of taxpayer dollars studying his brain and his background down to his infancy. Being found of unsound mind (is there any doubt?), he'll spend some time in an institution where cures will be attempted. He may be walking free sooner than we think.

[capricorn]

Violent incidents that have occurred on Greyhound buses in Canada

THE CANADIAN PRESS

TORONTO - Here is a list of some violent attacks that have occurred on Greyhound passenger buses in Canada during the past eight years:

-July 30, 2008. Man killed and beheaded on board a Greyhound bus near Portage La Prairie, Man. Police arrest a suspect.

-Dec. 24, 2007. A 27-year-old man is stabbed after an argument with another passenger on a Greyhound bus near Tweed, Ont. A 37-year-old American man is charged with attempted murder.

-Feb. 16, 2007. A group of people in their 20's attack and beat the driver of a Greyhound bus in Lloydminster, Alta.

-Dec. 23, 2000. A man attempts to take control of a Greyhound bus near Thunder Bay, Ont. Thirty-two passengers are injured when the bus lands on its side in a ditch. One woman later dies of her injuries.

-March, 2000. A pregnant woman is attacked by a man on a Greyhound bus in London, Ont. The woman suffered injuries to her arms.

http://www.eastottawa.ca/article-cp5583203...t-security.html

[Wild Bill]

This incident reminds me of a personal experience that I feel is appropriate to the discussion.

Years ago I was in Texas for some sales training. One evening a bunch of us from all over the States and a few fellow Canadians were having drinks in a bar when one patron who obviously had a bit too much started becoming quite rowdy, cranky and aggressive. Not just to those at his own table but to others nearby.

Suddenly he pulled a gun on a guy at the next table, who was simply minding his own business!

I froze. A Canadian boy like me had never seen anything like this! Was this guy going to shoot that poor soul? Or others? Or ME?

It must have been only a second or two later when I heard a series of clicks. I looked around and there were at least a half dozen other guns trained on the rowdy guy! One gentleman said "I suggest you put that away and settle down!"

The offender looked around and instantly wilted, putting away his gun. He quietly left, without even finishing his drink. The rest of the patrons resumed their conversation as if nothing had happened.

Me, I was shaking! However, later in my room when I lay down for the night I started to think about it a bit deeper. I suddenly realized that scary as the idea of someone pulling a gun in a bar had been, if it had happened back home the offender might very well have shot someone! No one else would've had a gun to stop him!

There's a conundrum here that can't be easily answered. No one wants a society where gunslinging is common. Yet at the same time, we have totally given up our personal immediate safety. If we do run into someone with a gun we have no defense. All we can do is hope we live through the experience and later call the cops. If the guy is a whacko who just starts taking people out randomly he will kill quite a number before the police are aware of him and have time to react.

One person with a gun could have saved that poor soul on that bus. One person with a gun could have stopped Mark Lepine before the body count of those poor women in Quebec grew so large.

I don't know the answer. I don't want to carry a gun myself. Still, when I hear about such horrific incidents I can't help but think of my experience in Texas.

One thing's for sure, it taught me that cops are only human. They're not magical beings who can always hover around me and keep me safe.

[gc1765]

I think it's a legitimate question to at least wonder if drivers should be armed. What about stun guns? Tasers? Pepper spray? To my knowledge, those are all considered weapons.

The thing is, what makes riding on a bus any more likely for something like this to happen? It could just as easily have happened when the guy was walking down the sidewalk, in a classroom, etc...

[eyeball]

There's a conundrum here that can't be easily answered. No one wants a society where gunslinging is common. Yet at the same time, we have totally given up our personal immediate safety. If we do run into someone with a gun we have no defense. All we can do is hope we live through the experience and later call the cops. If the guy is a whacko who just starts taking people out randomly he will kill quite a number before the police are aware of him and have time to react.

There's always gun control.

One person with a gun could have saved that poor soul on that bus. One person with a gun could have stopped Mark Lepine before the body count of those poor women in Quebec grew so large.

I don't know the answer. I don't want to carry a gun myself. Still, when I hear about such horrific incidents I can't help but think of my experience in Texas.

Shit happens, always has always will. Arming our population in hopes of saving people's lives is just plain nuts. I bet every positive experience like yours is far outnumbered by negative ones.

As for worrying about getting my head hacked off, I'd be more worried about bullets and lightning.

[capricorn]

Shit happens, always has always will.

Exactly. Life is full of danger and bad things happen to good people. Sometimes events converge, as happened to Wild Bill, to place you in a very dangerous or horrible situation.

Example. Ten years ago here in Ottawa, my cousin, a petite woman standing 5 feet tall, stepped out of a taxi at a curb and fell directly into a manhole whose cover had somehow been removed. Poor woman still has pain in her back and legs from the fall. Wrong place, wrong time.

As for worrying about getting my head hacked off, I'd be more worried about bullets and lightning.

Or falling into a manhole.

Ottawa man charged with theft of 25 manhole covers

---

the City of Ottawa is continuing to warn the public about missing manhole covers on city streets.

About 150 covers have gone missing in the last month - 80 of which were stolen in the past week.

It is believed the covers are being stolen to sell for scrap metal.

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVN...?hub=OttawaHome

A lot of Ottawans are walking with their heads bowed including my cousin.

Edited August 1, 2008 by capricorn

[BubberMiley]

Greyhound has announced that in their marketing response to this incident that they intend to hack and slash prices so deeply it will leave your head spinning.

Hilarious. I guess it wasn't a member of your family who was killed.

But I think people who say they would have stepped in and saved the fellow are rather brave when given the benefit of not having to prove their heroism. From the story, it sounds like the guy was stabbed in the neck several times before anyone (even he) knew what was going on. There isn't much anyone not carrying a Glock in their carry-on could do but run.

That's why I don't go anywhere without my Glock.

[Topaz]

What I heard on a news report was the killer was 39 or 40 years old and the victim was a young First Nation guy, maybe late teen or early twenty from out of province. Now I know there are people who hate certains groups of people and IF that is the case here then the killer should die himself. Of course , maybe the killer was on some kind of drugs and just not mentally there.

[BubberMiley]

Of course , maybe the killer was on some kind of drugs and just not mentally there.

Yes, perhaps the devil weed.

Obviously, he was simply loonytunes and shouldn't be let out again.

According to the police scanner, he was even eating parts of the body.

http://members.shaw.ca/bdear/audio/bus-incident.mp3

[White Doors]

Greyhound has announced that in their marketing response to this incident that they intend to hack and slash prices so deeply it will leave your head spinning.

I don't think that is funny at all. This is truly a disturbing incident and my heart goes out to the family and friends of this man.

I got to wonder why no one came to his aid though. I think some of the men on that bus have some accounting to do in regards to their behaviour.

[eyeball]

I think some of the men on that bus have some accounting to do in regards to their behaviour.

The accounts that immediate eyewitnesses gave don't indicate they did anything wrong at all. If anything they deserve praise for hustling the other passengers off the bus and taking action to ensure the attacker didn't.

[Wild Bill]

I don't think that is funny at all. This is truly a disturbing incident and my heart goes out to the family and friends of this man.

I got to wonder why no one came to his aid though. I think some of the men on that bus have some accounting to do in regards to their behaviour.

Why didn't any of the women come to his aid? After all, we are all equal, are we not?

I think perhaps it has been so long since our society has had a lot of personal violence in our daily lives that people have forgotten just how dangerous a man with a knife can be. To go up against such an opponent, particularly a crazy one, unarmed is just suicidal stupidity for anyone but a Hollywood ninja.

I had read that the attacker had made moves on other passengers but that they managed to escape in time. So likely it was not a specific attack on a specific victim. This guy likely would have proceeded to kill the entire busload of people if not stopped.

How could such a horror ever have happened? After all, we had registered all the guns!

I guess we need a knife registry.

[White Doors]

Britain is going to have a knife registry after the rousing success of their gun registry (sarcasm)

I wasn't talking mano-a-mano, but you think he would have been rushed. A bus is pretty crowded would be hard to wield off a couple of men with a knife. I don't know, I wasn't there, but I just hate to think that he died wondering why no one was helping him.