The Conservative Spending Spree

[jdobbin]

I'm with dobbin. This is worse than the Liberals. I see pandering to every group that wants it, to a sum greater than taxpayers have ever had to pay before.

I don't want to foot the bill. Do you?

I've criticized the stupid spending announcements the Liberals made one after the other in advance of the election. It was pandering then and it is pandering now. I'm not convinced that the Arctic patrol vessel announcement had to be announced after Parliament broke. Why not in the budget where it could be debated? And so it goes with many of these announcements. Why is it the day after Parliament breaks there is 78 press releases on spending announcements flooding CTV's new desk?

[jdobbin]

What issues do you have with the Cree announcement Geoff?

At least you are standard in your response. You want lower taxes and lower Government spending. Fair enough. You can engage in honest debate. You don't stoop to insults.

Dobbin just wants to attack the Government. When it is spending he agrees with, then those recipients give the 'credit' to the Liberals. If there is scorn it goes to the Conservatives, automatically. Praise it goes to the Liberals.

I see the difference. Do you?

Actually, I don't know that I approve of the Cree announcement even if Chretien was instrumental in it. It should have been sent to Parliament for debate instead of announced as a final decision.

It has to go the Cree to debate, why not Parliament?

And so it goes with a lot of these announcements. They are made with no thought to Parliament at all. Liberals did it and now so do the Conservatives.

What is the point of a budget if the government announces 78 spending announcements the day after Parliament breaks?

[Michael Bluth]

It has to go the Cree to debate, why not Parliament?

What is the point of a budget if the government announces 78 spending announcements the day after Parliament breaks?

The Government of Canada should be forced to manage it's affairs exactly as the Cree do? Imagine the sh*t storm if it were the other way around.

Parliament is on a long recess. Why not take this time to make the announcement when MPs are free to visit the areas that will be most effected by them?

The budget is one document released once a year. Things happen in the course of a year.

The purpose of the budget is to provide the overall plan for spending in the year. It shouldn't absolutely tie the Government's hands from reacting to changes in the country from that point forward.

[jdobbin]

Another spending announcement. Do the Tories ever cut? It's spend, spend, spend all summer.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor defended critics who questioned the timing of a federal boost that will reopen a Quebec military college mothballed during budget cuts in the 1990s.

O'Connor announced on Thursday that the government will spend $200 million over the next 20 years on funding for the College militaire royal de Saint-Jean, located in St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que.

The college will not offer university courses as it did before it closed in 1995, he said.

But critics questioned the timing of the announcement, which comes on the heels of a first wave of Quebec-based soldiers being dispatched to Afghanistan last week.

[Michael Bluth]

Another spending announcement. Do the Tories ever cut? It's spend, spend, spend all summer.

Do you ever not twist things against the Conservatives?

Re-establishing CMR rights a wrong committed by the Liberals in 1995.

This Government supports the Canadian Military and the valuable work they do for our country.

Too bad you don't.

[Canuck E Stan]

And so it goes with a lot of these announcements. They are made with no thought to Parliament at all. Liberals did it and now so do the Conservatives.

How far back in Canadian political history does one have to go to where thoughts of Parliament were involved in all the government announcements?

[jdobbin]

How far back in Canadian political history does one have to go to where thoughts of Parliament were involved in all the government announcements?

It has only been in the last decade or so that spending announcements have been made after a session has ended at the rate of one or two a day like promises made in a campaign.

In fact, these announcements are just like promises because the actual spending on them often doesn't occur because it doesn't get approved in terms of budget.

[jdobbin]

More spending announcements. Are the Tories trying to buy Quebec votes? It is getting a bit crazy here with one after the other after the other spending announcements.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...20?hub=Politics

The Conservative government is adding a rapid deployment force to a Quebec air force base, continuing a military spending spree in the province.

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor unveiled the plan today at Canadian Forces Base Bagotville, where the 550 troops will be based. The government will spend about $300 million over seven years on the self-contained unit, which will be ready to move quickly to any trouble spot in Canada or around the world.

It's the second military announcement for O'Connor and the Conservatives in two days in Quebec, where they need to gain support if they hope to form a majority government in the next federal election.

[M.Dancer]

More spending announcements. Are the Tories trying to buy Quebec votes? It is getting a bit crazy here with one after the other after the other spending announcements.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...20?hub=Politics

The Conservative government is adding a rapid deployment force to a Quebec air force base, continuing a military spending spree in the province.

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor unveiled the plan today at Canadian Forces Base Bagotville, where the 550 troops will be based. The government will spend about $300 million over seven years on the self-contained unit, which will be ready to move quickly to any trouble spot in Canada or around the world.

It's the second military announcement for O'Connor and the Conservatives in two days in Quebec, where they need to gain support if they hope to form a majority government in the next federal election.

Buying votes with military spending in a province that doesn't value the military? Nope sorry, that one doesn't hold water. You want to buy votes in quebec it's motherhood all the way.

[Michael Bluth]

Buying votes with military spending in a province that doesn't value the military? Nope sorry, that one doesn't hold water. You want to buy votes in quebec it's motherhood all the way.

MD you can't approach this rationally or fairly. The whole idea of this thread is to attack everything the Conservatives do. No matter if it makes sense for Canadians.

Of course they aren't buying votes with this announcement. That doesn't mean it will stop people from attacking the Government about the announcement.

[jdobbin]

Buying votes with military spending in a province that doesn't value the military? Nope sorry, that one doesn't hold water. You want to buy votes in quebec it's motherhood all the way.

Quebec will take whatever spending comes its way from the federal government. In the last few weeks, we have seen a few billion come Quebec's way.

Each day brings a new spending announcement.

You're probably right that it doesn't buy votes. The Tories remain stuck in third place in Quebec. Still, the spending announcements go on and on.

[jdobbin]

MD you can't approach this rationally or fairly. The whole idea of this thread is to attack everything the Conservatives do. No matter if it makes sense for Canadians.

Of course they aren't buying votes with this announcement. That doesn't mean it will stop people from attacking the Government about the announcement.

The Canadian Press certainly thinks the announcement is geared to electioneering.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070720/...tories_military

The Saguenay expansion comes on the heels of Thursday's pomp-filled announcement about the relaunch of the College militaire royal de Saint-Jean south of Montreal, a move that will pump about $10 million into the college each year.

This spring, the Tories unveiled a $1.3-billion plan in Quebec City to purchase used tanks and refurbish them.

The announcements were all carefully staged in places where Tories won many seats in the 1980s, got swept in the '90s, and climbed back into contention more recently, winning one seat in Saguenay and five in Quebec City in 2006.

[sharkman]

The Canadian press loves to froth at the mouth over such things. It helps them sell their product even though they've been wrong many times before. Since the Tories don't have the control over an election date that a majority government would, it makes it a rather hard sell.

[jdobbin]

The Canadian press loves to froth at the mouth over such things. It helps them sell their product even though they've been wrong many times before. Since the Tories don't have the control over an election date that a majority government would, it makes it a rather hard sell.

Yes, Canadian Press is a leftist organization like all the media. No wants to tell it like it is in Canada which is the 78+ spending announcements since Parliament shut down for the summer have nothing to do with politics. They are all essential spending announcements and any comparisons made to Paul Martin's endless stream of spending announcements is pure coincidence.

[Canuck E Stan]

In fact, these announcements are just like promises because the actual spending on them often doesn't occur because it doesn't get approved in terms of budget.

Something brought to you by P.E. Trudeau,a specialized meaning of government spending.

Canadian federalism and the Spending Power of the Canadian Parliament

Normally, the spending power of governments is understood as the money they spend on particular programs under the authority of legislation passed by their legislative bodies. However, spending power has a specialized meaning in the Canadian constitutional context. It means "the power of Parliament to make payments to people or institutions or governments for purposes on which it (Parliament) does not necessarily have power to legislate." (P.E. Trudeau, Federal-Provincial Grants and the Spending Power of Parliament, p. 4).

Trudeau never made any announcements,he just did it.I'll take the announcement of spending any day, over the unannounced legacy of spending that Trudeau left us.

In 1968, when Trudeau went from rich, socialist professor who had never held a real job in his life to prime minister, Canada’s national debt was a modest $11.3 billion; the federal deficit was zero. When Trudeau left office in 1984, the debt had mushroomed to $128 billion; the deficit to $25 billion annually.

When Trudeau entered office, Ottawa spent 30% of Canada’s total economic output(the same as the USA). When he left, government spending had skyrocketed to almost 53%. With half of Canadians working directly or indirectly for Ottawa, the nation became infected with bureaucratic and union work ethics - state-sponsored laziness.

In 1970, the US, Switzerland, and Canada were the world’s three richest nations. Canada’s robust dollar traded around US $1.06 - ie 6% more than the US dollar. Today(2000), thanks to Trudeau’s socialism, and Brian Mulroney’s failure to uproot it, the dollar has sunk to a pathetic, humiliating $ .66 cents.

After Trudeau retired, his unstoppable socialist juggernaut picked up speed. Canada’s federal debt - the amount Ottawa borrowed in the past that remains unpaid - has skyrocketed to C$ 576 billion - $54,000 per taxpayer.

Almost third of your current federal taxes go to paying interest on this debt - just like on a credit card with an unpaid balance. In 1999 alone, Canadians paid $41.5 billion debt interest, four times what Ottawa spent on defense.

In 1970, Canda had one of the lowest debts -and lowest taxes - among industrial nations. Today, Canada ranks as one of three leading debtor nations, with socialist-run Belgium and Italy. While Ottawa’s annual deficit was ended by imposing crushing taxes, the monster debt overhang remains. The US is projected to pay off its entire national debt by 2012. At Ottawa’s puny repayment rate, it will take Canada 288 more years!

*Behind the charade of peacekeeping, Trudeau destroyed Canada’s once powerful armed forces, leaving the nation a helpless military eunuch, with virtually no international influence, and totally dependant on the much-reviled ‘aggressive’ US for national defense.

*The crown jewel of Canadian socialism, state-run medicine, is a mess. ‘The cruel, heartless, capitalist’ US spends 13.5% of national income on health; Canada spends 9.5%. Unemployment in Canada’s ‘compassionate, gentler’ society has run 3.5-5 points higher than in the US. Canada’s smartest, most entreprenurial people are fleeing south. Canada has become an economic, intellectual and cultural backwater - bureaucratic Ottawa, writ large.

*Trudeau was ardently anti-American, even allowing Cuba’s intelligence service to operate against the US from Montreal. He despised the free market, tried to transform Canada into another socialist Sweden, and fawned on marxist dictators like Mao, Nyere, and Castro.

Thirty years ago, Canada was rich, powerful and respected. Three decades of bullying Trudeau socialism undermined Canada’s economy, the core of a nation’s strength, and encouraged separatism in Quebec.

Eric Margolis, October 8,2000

And you're complaining about announced spending?

[jdobbin]

And you're complaining about announced spending?

I think it was wrong when the Liberals did it. I think it is no less wrong now.

It has been once announcement after another bribing people with their own money.

[Canuck E Stan]

Something brought to you by P.E. Trudeau,a specialized meaning of government spending.

Normally, the spending power of governments is understood as the money they spend on particular programs under the authority of legislation passed by their legislative bodies. However, spending power has a specialized meaning in the Canadian constitutional context. It means "the power of Parliament to make payments to people or institutions or governments for purposes on which it (Parliament) does not necessarily have power to legislate." (P.E. Trudeau, Federal-Provincial Grants and the Spending Power of Parliament, p. 4).

So why is your beef with only Harper?

You should have a beef about spending power that has special meaning in the constitution, the one that the Liberal leader, Trudeau started.

Although the optics appears wrong, every PM has used and abused this special spending power since Trudeau. And all of them have used this tactic after sessions,during election campaigns or any time they wanted to.

Your endeavor to make it sound like this is something only Harper is doing is totally erroneous and is purposely done in a attempt to mislead.

[jdobbin]

So why is your beef with only Harper?

You should have a beef about spending power that has special meaning in the constitution, the one that the Liberal leader, Trudeau started.

Although the optics appears wrong, every PM has used and abused this special spending power since Trudeau. And all of them have used this tactic after sessions,during election campaigns or any time they wanted to.

Your endeavor to make it sound like this is something only Harper is doing is totally erroneous and is purposely done in a attempt to mislead.

I have said it before in this thread. I have said in other threads. The endless spending announcements as soon as the Parliamentary session ends leads is cynical politics. I have never said Harper is the only one to do it. Harper did complain though when the Liberals did it so he can't expect to not have people ask why he is doing it now.

A big bright light should be shone on the announcements and questions raised every time one is made.

The preferable route for spending announcements is the budget where it can be debated.

[Canuck E Stan]

I have said it before in this thread....

........and said it and said and said it.

Maybe if you can't add anything new to the discussion except for announcing the announcements, you should give it a break.

[jdobbin]

........and said it and said and said it.

Maybe if you can't add anything new to the discussion except for announcing the announcements, you should give it a break.

Just because you approve of all the spending doesn't mean others do.

I suggest you find another thread if this one offends you.

[Canuck E Stan]

Just because you approve of all the spending doesn't mean others do.

I suggest you find another thread if this one offends you.

Firstly, I would suggest you don't make statements of what I approve of, and what I don't.

Where did I state I approved of all the spending?

Secondly I have asked you some questions in regards to the topic of this thread in my previous posts, that you (if you want to discuss this topic) have ignored. Instead you prefer to rant about how you don't like the announcements.

I like a good discussion,reading your rants with the same view offers nothing to any type discussion.

Your viewpoint has been stated and restated,once is enough.

Do you think people are that stupid on this forum that they need to read your repeated view point multiple times on the same thread?

As for this thread, it doesn't offend me, having to read your repeated message over and over within it does, as does your suggesting I find another thread.

[jdobbin]

Firstly, I would suggest you don't make statements of what I approve of, and what I don't.

Where did I state I approved of all the spending?

Secondly I have asked you some questions in regards to the topic of this thread in my previous posts, that you (if you want to discuss this topic) have ignored. Instead you prefer to rant about how you don't like the announcements.

I like a good discussion,reading your rants with the same view offers nothing to any type discussion.

Your viewpoint has been stated and restated,once is enough.

Do you think people are that stupid on this forum that they need to read your repeated view point multiple times on the same thread?

As for this thread, it doesn't offend me, having to read your repeated message over and over within it does, as does your suggesting I find another thread.

You haven't said anything about the spending except, as you usually do, say that the Liberals did it first.

I'm not sure which questions you say that I have ignored.

You suggested I take a break, I suggested you go elsewhere. You act offended?

Edited July 21, 2007 by jdobbin

[Michael Bluth]

You haven't said anything about the spending except, as you usually do, say that the Liberals did it first.

I'm not sure which questions you say that I have ignored.

You suggested I take a break, I suggested you go elsewhere. You act offended?

dobbin, it amazes me how you spend all your time here for two purposes.

1. To attack the Conservatives no matter what they do.

2. To attack anybody who dares contradict your anti-CPC view. i've been asked to avoid flame wars with you, so this is my last word on the subject. But seriously, let go of the anger brother. There are enough of us on this board that you will not turn this board into Rabble-Lethbridge. Honestly, let go of the anger. One day the Government cheques will run out. Earn an honest living. Debate honestly on this board.

You might actually feel happy for once in your life. OK, maybe not but at least you won't be all seething anger.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Michael Bluth

[jdobbin]

dobbin, it amazes me how you spend all your time here for two purposes.

1. To attack the Conservatives no matter what they do.

2. To attack anybody who dares contradict your anti-CPC view. i've been asked to avoid flame wars with you, so this is my last word on the subject. But seriously, let go of the anger brother. There are enough of us on this board that you will not turn this board into Rabble-Lethbridge. Honestly, let go of the anger. One day the Government cheques will run out. Earn an honest living. Debate honestly on this board.

You might actually feel happy for once in your life. OK, maybe not but at least you won't be all seething anger.

Listen to what you've been told. Avoid the flame wars and you might be happier. You just can't reply to any message without personalizing it.

[Canuck E Stan]

You haven't said anything about the spending except, as you usually do, say that the Liberals did it first.

I'm not sure which questions you say that I have ignored.

You suggested I take a break, I suggested you go elsewhere. You act offended?

So first you accuse me of being totally in favour of the spendings, now you say I haven't said anything about the spendings.An apology should be in order for these accusations.

In my posts(if you would actually read them with some thought) I said that this spending business was started by Trudeau, and subsequently has been done by every PM since.

Since Trudeau made it part of the constitution, and abused it to the point of putting Canada deep in debt for the next couple of centuries,and it is allowable without Parliament"s input,

why are you making issue over and over again with Harper using a tool the constitution has given PM's?

You've made your point..... once is enough, or as I asked before,do you think people here on the forum are too stupid to get your point and you have to repeat it over and over.