new american empire death throws

[betsy]

America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean.

I know.

Ask her to expand on that. Better yet, to give something credible to back it up.

Just fyi, you are debating with someone who put up a good fight trying to convince the board that Osama Bin Laden was not a religious person. Wanting us to take her word for it.

Oh, your funny betsy, you see, I know when and whom to waste my time with.

I have expanded on many topics with you, but, you see, I don't get my information from the bible, or preached to me at church, I read and educate myself.

While some choose otherwise.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha!

[ScottSA]

I agree completely with the premise the US as an empire is in it's death throes. It is not anti-americanism it is simple fact.

The very fact that the US had to trump up the 'war on terror', to maintain relevance in the world is indicative of this.

And you should know, being the smart, educated and well read guy that you are. Why, I had almost forgotten the US bestrides the world like a behemoth existed before it trumped up 911. And I see what you mean about its irrelevance too...why, the USD is just a pretend pillar of international finance...pluck it out of the world system and I'm sure the global economy would fall flat on its arse no one would notice.

[kuzadd]

wow scottsa, did you listen to the economist ?

read the books?

even bother to check them out?

yet, all you add to this discussion, is

"And you should know, being the smart, educated and well read guy that you are. Why, I had almost forgotten the US bestrides the world like a behemoth existed before it trumped up 911. And I see what you mean about its irrelevance too...why, the USD is just a pretend pillar of international finance...pluck it out of the world system and I'm sure the global economy would fall flat on its arse no one would notice."

oh absolutely nothing!

save for facetiousness.

BTW scottsa, I am not a guy.

I am a .............................. dam smart, butt kickin', good lookin woman!

who doesn't take any crap.

Yet my hubby of over 20 yrs loves me.

aaaahhh, ain;t that sweet?

are you jealous yet?

lol!

[sharkman]

Kuzzad, you often accuse others of adding nothing to the discussion, and then you go and add nothing to the discussion...keep listening to Manson.

[kuzadd]

Bwa-ha-ha-ha!

Thanks besty, for making what I said, all that much more clear and concise.

"I know when and whom to waste my time with."

and.....................................

It ain't you babe, no , no , no it ain't you babe!

[kuzadd]

Kuzzad, you often accuse others of adding nothing to the discussion, and then you go and add nothing to the discussion...keep listening to Manson.

I will , thanks!

care to add to the discussion, or are you here, also like scottsa and betsy, to just attack, ridicule, and in general conduct oneself in a rude way.

Did you read either of the books, I mentioned, or listen to the economist?

[ScottSA]

So kuzzad, you are smart, well read, good looking and superbly educated, but you make ridiculous claims like the notion that the US is "irrelevant" and expect people to take you seriously?

[betsy]

BTW scottsa, I am not a guy.

I am a .............................. dam smart, butt kickin', good lookin woman!

who doesn't take any crap.

Yet my hubby of over 20 yrs loves me.

aaaahhh, ain;t that sweet?

are you jealous yet?

lol!

Uh...I don't know how your husband is connected with the topic, unless his "empire" is on its death throes being cowed by all this shining intelligence, not to mention getting butt-kicked and fearing for his balls.

And what's with this about Scott being jealous of your husband? Am I missing something here?

Aw c'mooooon! Ewwww, control yourself Kuzadd. You're a married woman!

Edited July 21, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

care to add to the discussion, or are you here, also like scottsa and betsy, to just attack, ridicule, and in general conduct oneself in a rude way.

I was adding to the discussion. Replying to American Woman, asking her to ask for credible back up to that particular statement you made. That statement you made was really funny! Really. I even wondered if you typed that with a straight face.

My comment was not an attack, however. I was just stating a fact.

And I must say that was a valuable suggestion I've made to the ongoing argument between her and you.

Edited July 21, 2007 by betsy

[kuzadd]

So kuzzad, you are smart, well read, good looking and superbly educated, but you make ridiculous claims like the notion that the US is "irrelevant" and expect people to take you seriously?

No, I said, is becoming irrelevant.

Read the books, listen to the interview???

[kuzadd]

BTW scottsa, I am not a guy.

I am a .............................. dam smart, butt kickin', good lookin woman!

who doesn't take any crap.

Yet my hubby of over 20 yrs loves me.

aaaahhh, ain;t that sweet?

are you jealous yet?

lol!

Uh...I don't know how your husband is connected with the topic, unless his "empire" is on its death throes being cowed by all this shining intelligence, not to mention getting butt-kicked and fearing for his balls.

And what's with this about Scott being jealous of your husband? Am I missing something here?

Aw c'mooooon! Ewwww, control yourself Kuzadd. You're a married woman!

Just havin's some fun with scott.

Get over it!

My hubby, lives in no fear of his "balls"

lol!

Edited July 21, 2007 by kuzadd

[sharkman]

I've listened to a lot of criticism of America and Americans in the past few years, and I've apologized for my country's actions where appropriate/necessary, but I'm growing weary of this kind of extreme criticism/judgement. The U.S. is making a last grasp to maintain relevancy in the world? Come on. That just makes me laugh.

AM, please don't feel that you have to apologize for what your government does or does not do. It is simply out of your hands. And when you read the hate speech that some shrill posters love to spew, remember that there have always been haters of the U.S., and when you are number one in the world some will hate for that reason alone.

[betsy]

I've listened to a lot of criticism of America and Americans in the past few years, and I've apologized for my country's actions where appropriate/necessary, but I'm growing weary of this kind of extreme criticism/judgement. The U.S. is making a last grasp to maintain relevancy in the world? Come on. That just makes me laugh.

AM, please don't feel that you have to apologize for what your government does or does not do. It is simply out of your hands. And when you read the hate speech that some shrill posters love to spew, remember that there have always been haters of the U.S., and when you are number one in the world some will hate for that reason alone.

Yes. The USA will always be blamed and dumped on by such haters, no matter what. No amount of apology will make any difference.

As an excellent example is how the haters easily twist to justify terrorists actions and deftly shifts the blame on Bush and the USA.

You have to question the real mitigating factor for their hatred. It could easily be that they share the same ideology as the terrorists...and they truly see the west as the enemy.

Edited July 21, 2007 by betsy

[Moxie]

Betsy wrote: Yes. The USA will always be blamed and dumped on by such haters, no matter what. No amount of apology will make any difference.

As an excellent example is how the haters easily twist to justify terrorists actions and deftly shifts the blame on Bush and the USA.

You have to question the real mitigating factor for their hatred. It could easily be that they share the same ideology as the terrorists...and they truly see the west as the enemy.

After extensive reading on the subject of terrorism it's my assertion that those who loathe the US and also Loathe and hate Canadian Culture do so because it upsets their desire to live in a Socialist Utopia. They follow a communist doctorine but call it tolerant and wave their socialism like it's a positive thing. They hate the states and their own country because they want to live in a socialist country and have Nanny take care of their every need. The blather on and on about the poor, the homeless, gays, blah blah but what they really want is the same lifestyle as those of us who are high earners. They don't want to go get an education, they want the state to give them weekly allowances so they can feel as successful as the Middle and Upper class. So yes they'd climb into bed with Radical Islamists in a NY minute, both idiology are similar no seperation from the people and the state how they achieve it is immaterial to them.

[Guest American Woman]

America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean.

Unfortunate attitude.

Really? Perhaps you'd be so kind as to point out what's so unfortunate about it. Unless I believe the U.S. is isolated and irrelevant, I have the wrong attitude? Is that it? Give me a break. Anyone who knows anything about what's going on in the world right now knows the U.S. isn't isolated and irrelevant. I read through this thread and see that we're the most hated nation on earth, while at the same time we are isolated and irrelevant. And I have an unfortunate attitude because that makes me laugh?

Think what you will about America, but it's not isolated and irrelevant. Far from it. So I will continue to at your claim that it is.

[Guest American Woman]

Kuzad, that attitude is prevelant among many Americans. They believe their country is the best on earth no matter what they have done. It's simply tunnel vision. They have been looking at themselves in the mirror for so long that they CAN'T look outward.

America is the most hated country on earth, thanks to the Bush Administration.

Good Americans (like those on the Democratic Underground) have an uphill battle and I feel for them.

The Democratic Underground exists because it is a sin in the USA to be liberal, it is a sin to be anti-war, anti-Bush. But this is changing. Maybe, just maybe once they have a real government again and have gotten rid of the Patriot Act, gotten rid of Homeland Security, maybe I will go for a visit.

Really. Because I don't believe the U.S. is isolated and irrelevant, I believe that it's the best nation on earth, no matter what we've done. I spend all my time looking at myself in the mirror. I never look outward.

It's always a treat to have someone who doesn't have a clue as to what you think state what you think. And while you're at it, please do me the favor of explaining how the U.S. can be completely irrelevant and the most hated country on the earth all at the same time.

Talk about arrogant and pompous and self righteous. Here's a thought. What do you think would have happened if Chretien hadn't been PM when the Iraq war started? Do you think maybe, just maybe, your PM would have backed Bush? Say Harper, for example? Now another question. What if Gore had been president instead of Bush when the 9-11 attacks took place? Do you think maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have gone to war in Iraq?

A lot of times decisions are made simply by who is in power. One thing we can pretty much say for sure: England would have gone along with the war even if Blair hadn't been PM since he was their liberal party candidate. So does that make England even worse than us?

Now about those "good Americans" on the Democratic Underground and what a sin it is to be liberal and anti-war and anti-Bush in America: I'm a Democrat who has no use for the DU. I don't have any use for extremism on any side. I'm also as anti-war as you are and as anti-Bush as you.

As for your maybe, just maybe, coming for a visit ... oh, happy day! !!!

[Guest American Woman]

I've listened to a lot of criticism of America and Americans in the past few years, and I've apologized for my country's actions where appropriate/necessary, but I'm growing weary of this kind of extreme criticism/judgement. The U.S. is making a last grasp to maintain relevancy in the world? Come on. That just makes me laugh.

AM, please don't feel that you have to apologize for what your government does or does not do. It is simply out of your hands. And when you read the hate speech that some shrill posters love to spew, remember that there have always been haters of the U.S., and when you are number one in the world some will hate for that reason alone.

I'm glad to know there are some people who feel that way. The thing is, I don't see people from other nations going around constantly apologizing for what their country has done. In fact, when I've been abroad, I've had people whose nations are part of the Iraq war coalition criticize me because of the war, as if their country isn't involved. On a more personal level, I find it amazing that they can separate themselves from what their country is doing, but I'm automatically responsible for what mine is doing.

Edited July 22, 2007 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm glad to know there are some people who feel that way. The thing is, I don't see people from other nations going around constantly apologizing for what their country has done. In fact, when I've been abroad, I've had people whose nations are part of the Iraq war coalition criticize me because of the war, as if their country isn't involved. On a more personal level, I find it amazing that they can separate themselves from what their country is doing, but I'm automatically responsible for what mine is doing.

Agreed....it is hard to understand the cognitive dissonance of some (not all) of these people, not only because of their own nation's complicity, but personal complicity in the very fabric of what we are and do as the "West". Sometimes, we can see a rationalization that says were it not for the USA, they would not be involved in such things either. At other times they bemoan a lack of US involvement in pet causes, while recounting the sordid history of the CIA.

The United States is a nation state which acts in self interest....just like all the others. It is the same as it has always been, from the time that privileged land/slave owners booted a king in the ass.

[kuzadd]

America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean.

Unfortunate attitude.

Really? Perhaps you'd be so kind as to point out what's so unfortunate about it. Unless I believe the U.S. is isolated and irrelevant, I have the wrong attitude? Is that it? Give me a break. Anyone who knows anything about what's going on in the world right now knows the U.S. isn't isolated and irrelevant. I read through this thread and see that we're the most hated nation on earth, while at the same time we are isolated and irrelevant. And I have an unfortunate attitude because that makes me laugh?

Think what you will about America, but it's not isolated and irrelevant. Far from it. So I will continue to at your claim that it is.

But clearly, and obviously you did not read what I said.

I said America will soon SOON,I did not say is, I said soon find itself isolated and irrelevant, sooner then your apparent tunnel vision will ever allow you to realize.

actually by time you realize , the irrelevance will be complete.

[bush_cheney2004]

But clearly, and obviously you did not read what I said.

I said America will soon SOON,I did not say is, I said soon find itself isolated and irrelevant, sooner then your apparent tunnel vision will ever allow you to realize.

actually by time you realize , the irrelevance will be complete.

Frankly, Canadians speaking of irrelevance has a sweet and ironic quality, eh?

[ScottSA]

But clearly, and obviously you did not read what I said.

I said America will soon SOON,I did not say is, I said soon find itself isolated and irrelevant, sooner then your apparent tunnel vision will ever allow you to realize.

actually by time you realize , the irrelevance will be complete.

I see that you are not only confused about what you mean, but now you're becoming confused as to what you said:

Here's what you said: "America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean." That's a c/p straight from the text found here, in the top post. You last modified that post on the 20th, so if it doesn't say that later today, it's because you modified it again: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....opic=9412&st=60

Note that there is no mention of "soon." The sentence is written in the present tense. Either you are trying to squirm out of this faux pas, or you are confused, or your command of English is not good. Which is it?

[Drea]

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

The issue is the USA's foreign policy which has alienated the rest of the earth's populace (as well as a good number of their own citizens).

The issue is the fact that the future does not bode well for America on it's current course.

If (big if) the Dems actually get in next election they a.) have their work cut out for them undoing everything Bush has done, or b.) will continue on the course set by the Republicans.

Either way there is going to be tough times for America (and by default, little 'ol Canada will suffer too)

Do I think this stinks? Hell yes! But we are tied to the US economically and physically so there is not much one can do about it from here.

LOL

It's like having a bully for a brother. You hate his actions and his attitude, but you have to want the best for him (for him to go back to being a good person) because he's your bro.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Drea

[ScottSA]

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

The issue is the USA's foreign policy which has alienated the rest of the earth's populace (as well as a good number of their own citizens).

The issue is the fact that the future does not bode well for America on it's current course.

If (big if) the Dems actually get in next election they a.) have their work cut out for them undoing everything Bush has done, or b.) will continue on the course set by the Republicans.

Either way there is going to be tough times for America (and by default, little 'ol Canada will suffer too)

Do I think this stinks? Hell yes! But we are tied to the US economically and physically so there is not much one can do about it from here.

LOL

It's like having a bully for a brother. You hate his actions and his attitude, but you have to want the best for him (for him to go back to being a good person) because he's your bro.

LOL do you ever have anything relevant to continue? LOL

[Guest American Woman]

But clearly, and obviously you did not read what I said. I said America will soon SOON,I did not say is, I said soon find itself isolated and irrelevant, sooner then your apparent tunnel vision will ever allow you to realize. actually by time you realize , the irrelevance will be complete.

As has already been pointed out, there was no "soon" in your statement. I quoted you. I'll quote you again:

"America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean."

Perhaps my "tunnel vision" is missing the word "soon," but I'm guessing it's not there.

But please let me know how soon this isolation and irrelevance will be taking place since you obviously have information that I'm lacking; and please don't take offense, but I'd appreciate some evidence to support your claim. Evidence that can be sourced with links.

I'm thinking it'll be a real relief to become isolated and irrelevant, though, because once we are, I'm sure we'll no longer be hated and/or the target of terrorist attacks. So how soon can we relax as a nation? Inquiring minds want to know.

Edited July 23, 2007 by American Woman

[Drea]

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

The issue is the USA's foreign policy which has alienated the rest of the earth's populace (as well as a good number of their own citizens).

The issue is the fact that the future does not bode well for America on it's current course.

If (big if) the Dems actually get in next election they a.) have their work cut out for them undoing everything Bush has done, or b.) will continue on the course set by the Republicans.

Either way there is going to be tough times for America (and by default, little 'ol Canada will suffer too)

Do I think this stinks? Hell yes! But we are tied to the US economically and physically so there is not much one can do about it from here.

LOL

It's like having a bully for a brother. You hate his actions and his attitude, but you have to want the best for him (for him to go back to being a good person) because he's your bro.

LOL do you ever have anything relevant to continue? LOL

Why don't you put in your 2 cents Scottsa? Do you believe that America is doing just a-okay? Do you believe that all the "negative stuff" everyone around the world is saying is *not happening*?

Just answer this one question -- Has America's reputation degraded or improved amongst the global community in the last seven years?

Come on Scott instead or deriding me personally, join the debate.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Drea