Was the Japanese internment wrong?

[betsy]

Canadians will need a few of their children killed - rather than just those Israeli children - before they find it appropriate to react.

comments like this sound like you are frothing at the mouth to have it happen... to justify your stance. Terrible IMO.

Imagine that. Me just stating what is very possible...and you're already finding it terrible. What more when it happens? And it will!

Funny that you find it so terrible that Canadian children will die....but you don't seem to find it so terrible how Isreali children get blown to bits in pizza parlors. Funny too how the left-wing mind works. Even when it does happens, odds are you'll be in denial.

Frothing to have it happen? I'm the one who says we should do something to prevent it!

Drea, how does your mind work?

[betsy]

There is no one (or two or three or four) countries to "blame". These religious nutbars are from all over the world.

Btw, weren't you one of those who says this is not a religious war?

[margrace]

But muslims do not come from one single country. How on earth can we blame them all for the actions of a few extreme ones?

What if those crazies in that other country were YOUR race or religion?

Thankfully I look like the "majority" -- what about those who don't? Would we inter Hindus because they "look" like muslims?

Very slippery slope indeed.

I've said this before in that other thread long ago, and I'll say it again. If it is my ethnic group who is at war with Canada, I'd prefer to be interned!

What kind of a life would it be anyway for me being among people whom I think suspect, hate, resent or are wary around me - even if it's only paranoia on my part?

Do I want to live in fear everytime I go out to do my groceries that not some rabid emotional patriot will pound the daylights out of me?

That I must take very special care that my actions or words are not misconstrued....and attract suspicion or possible lynching?

Do you really believe I'd still enjoy the same life of true freedom I had before?

And what if indeed some people in my group are terrorists or traitors, hiding among us, using us as some sort of a shield? Us innocents will be more likely to get caught in the middle.

It's better that we stay "out of the way!"

Maybe it will be hard to intern people, ala-WW2, now in this situation. It's a different ball-game I must say.

But I guess they'll come up with something that will make it easier for them to monitor or keep track of the situation, and keep the rest of Canadians as safe as possible. Maybe instead of camps, they'll put us all in an island or a district? Who knows.

So do you agree with Hilter's final solution. Sounds like you think the same as he did.

[betsy]

But muslims do not come from one single country. How on earth can we blame them all for the actions of a few extreme ones?

What if those crazies in that other country were YOUR race or religion?

Thankfully I look like the "majority" -- what about those who don't? Would we inter Hindus because they "look" like muslims?

Very slippery slope indeed.

I've said this before in that other thread long ago, and I'll say it again. If it is my ethnic group who is at war with Canada, I'd prefer to be interned!

What kind of a life would it be anyway for me being among people whom I think suspect, hate, resent or are wary around me - even if it's only paranoia on my part?

Do I want to live in fear everytime I go out to do my groceries that not some rabid emotional patriot will pound the daylights out of me?

That I must take very special care that my actions or words are not misconstrued....and attract suspicion or possible lynching?

Do you really believe I'd still enjoy the same life of true freedom I had before?

And what if indeed some people in my group are terrorists or traitors, hiding among us, using us as some sort of a shield? Us innocents will be more likely to get caught in the middle.

It's better that we stay "out of the way!"

Maybe it will be hard to intern people, ala-WW2, now in this situation. It's a different ball-game I must say.

But I guess they'll come up with something that will make it easier for them to monitor or keep track of the situation, and keep the rest of Canadians as safe as possible. Maybe instead of camps, they'll put us all in an island or a district? Who knows.

So do you agree with Hilter's final solution. Sounds like you think the same as he did.

If this is what you think I'm implying....then what's the point of talking to you! Your mind must've been confiscated by the thought-police, as a curiosity.

[Peter F]

This is pertinent because the very same logic is being used against Canadian citizens today. They're Muslims from Lebanon therefore they can't be trusted....despite thier Canadian citizenship.

I see where you are going, but

a. Lebanon is not considered too much a threat, at least not relatively.

b. The big ruckus was raised over dual citizens residing in Lebanon who kept a Canadian Passport in case the level of instability in Lebanon sky rocketed and they needed a "backup". I don't think anyone (except a few "special" characters from this site perhaps) put into question the loyalty of the typical Lebanese family who has been living here for the past 20 years and considers themselves Canadian, and for whom Lebanon is now at most considered a "tourist" destination.

I had no intention of using my example of Lebanese Muslims in reference to those events. To be clear, I pulled Lebanon off the top of my head to indicate Muslim immigrants from Middle Eastern countries.

[Peter F]

Not everything in the world related to people of different races is bigotry. Life isn't that simple. I know you lefties think it is, but it's not.

But we arn't talking about everything in the world. We're talking about internment. The whole internment thing was based on bigotry. Those of Japanese descent were shipped off to the camps for the duration. With zero evidence to support the suspicion.

Half of Quebec, who's loyalty's were suspect, were left alone.

What was the difference between the two?

[Peter F]

Of course, the MAIN reason the Japanese were interned was the fact that the Emperor of Japan - whom Japanese consider "divine" - had called upon all Japanese, reminding them that they must be loyal to Japan, no matter where they were. That they were Japanese, first and foremost. This, combined with the well-documented atrocities of the Japanese Empire compelled our government to act.

The internment was the responsibility of our government. Not a whim or a bigotted move.

We should be so lucky that our government should have those balls now, because we're going to be in a similar situation soon....but with a much more imminent threat.

You are assuming that Japanese-Canadians would act upon the words of the Japanese Emporer. What evidence was there to support that contention? Attendance at secret meetings? Some sort of Rally? A Japanese underground? Anything at all?

I contend there was nothing at all to back up your assumption.

The war-measures act gave the government the power to arrest who-ever they wanted for what-ever they wanted when-ever they wanted...but with the Japanese even that was insufficient. All Japanese were the enemy.

In the rest of the country anyone who had been a German citizen was also interned. But not those who were born here. That only applied to those of Japanese parentage.

Now why should there be a difference in internment procedures between one enemy national and another?

What was particularly frightening about those of Japanese descent that wasnt particularly frightening about those of German descent? Why did the government determine that the immense legal power granted by the war-measures act simply couldn't cut it in regards to Japanese Canadians?

In those bigotted days, one could not escape ones parentage. Those with german names were suspect. Those with Japanese names were the enemy.

[betsy]

You are assuming that Japanese-Canadians would act upon the words of the Japanese Emporer. What evidence was there to support that contention? Attendance at secret meetings? Some sort of Rally? A Japanese underground? Anything at all?

I contend there was nothing at all to back up your assumption.

And you are assuming that not one Japanese would have acted upon the words of the emperor, had there been no internment.

Do you have anything to back up this assumption?

It is easy to make your "assumption" in confidence now that we're in the present times and discussing a war-time that had happened half a century ago. This is like giving the results of 6/49 lotto....making "assumptions" and "predicting" the winning numbers of December 31, 2006.

In the rest of the country anyone who had been a German citizen was also interned. But not those who were born here. That only applied to those of Japanese parentage.

Now why should there be a difference in internment procedures between one enemy national and another?

What was particularly frightening about those of Japanese descent that wasnt particularly frightening about those of German descent? Why did the government determine that the immense legal power granted by the war-measures act simply couldn't cut it in regards to Japanese Canadians?

I don't know if Hitler, speaking as a divine, had issued a direct edict towards all Germans, near and far....reminding them of their duty and where their loyalties should lie. That first and foremost, they (Germans) are Germans.

I don't know if Germans do take their honor so seriously as that of Japanese people....or if German soldiers were willing to die not only for their country, but for their emperor.......just like the Japanese kamikaze pilots....which incidentally makes me wonder now if they (the Kamikaze) were not the inspiration that the 9/11 pilots copy-catted!

I know definitely that if the responsibility of taking care of Canadian citizens had happened to rest on my shoulders durng those days, I would never have gambled upon it, and would've taken the POSSIBILITY quite seriously.... that some Japanese-Canadians would've responded and followed the emperor's edicts!

In fact, I would have assumed that some would.

After all, borrowing the words from one NDP MP, "it's better to err on the side of caution! "

It was not just about Canada either! It was a WORLD WAR! The balance of world power was in great peril!

In those bigotted days, one could not escape ones parentage. Those with german names were suspect. Those with Japanese names were the enemy.

My mother in-law's father was interned. He was German. Her mother was closely watched.

And yet she understood only too well the necessity of it!

War is war. It's always ugly. There would always be innocent casualties. That is a fact. That is reality.

[marcinmoka]

My mother in-law's father was interned. He was German. Her mother was closely watched.

And to whom are you loyal to?

A democratic nation of Canada or extremists wishing upend the rule of law?

[betsy]

My mother in-law's father was interned. He was German. Her mother was closely watched.

And to whom are you loyal to?

A democratic nation of Canada or extremists wishing upend the rule of law?

Suddenly the issue isn't internment?

What are you trying to say? Expand.

[buffycat]

This is addressed to those who seem to be in favour of, or at least justifying, internment of people based on race/religion.

By advocating internment (for whatever reasons - war security etc) would you then be understanding *if* say Iran interned her 20,000 strong community of Jews, just because of Israel's actions?

Seems to me that some here would, using their own 'logic' wrt explaining why internment of the Japanese (or Germans) was acceptable.

Personally, I find none of it acceptable.

[betsy]

This is addressed to those who seem to be in favour of, or at least justifying, internment of people based on race/religion.

By advocating internment (for whatever reasons - war security etc) would you then be understanding *if* say Iran interned her 20,000 strong community of Jews, just because of Israel's actions?

Seems to me that some here would, using their own 'logic' wrt explaining why internment of the Japanese (or Germans) was acceptable.

Personally, I find none of it acceptable.

First of all, internment has nothing to do with race or religion. It has to do with enemy status.

Second, do you prefer Iraq's method to internment - shoot them in the streets or in their homes?

Do you really believe that Jews in Iraq or Iran are safe? Unless of course, they're collaborators or capitulators.

Further I would rather take my chances on the streets in Iran or Iraq than being interned by those lunatics!

You can be sure Jews in custody there would lose much more than their lands.

This has a lot to do with MORAL HIGH GROUND .

Actually it is insulting to all Canadians to compare internment in Iran to internment here! We are a superior people.

[Drea]

Further I would rather take my chances on the streets in Iran or Iraq than being interned by those lunatics!

You can be sure Jews in custody there would lose much more than their lands.

This has a lot to do with MORAL HIGH GROUND .

Actually it is insulting to all Canadians to compare internment in Iran to internment here! We are a superior people.

THIS is the problem right here.

People believeing they are superior because of the country they reside in, the entity they prostrate themselves to, the colour of their skin or their gender.

All human beings are equal. All of us. You, me and that asshat next door are all equals. To believe otherwise is bigotry plain and simple.

and yes Betsy you are frothing at the mouth for some Canadian children to be killed. Why? Because it will give you further reason to hate people of a different religion.

No Betsy I didn't say this is not a religious war. On the contrary, I said the exact opposite -- it certainly IS a stupid religious war... and that is why I believe religion (attire, symbols, prayers) should be completely banned except for inside the home.

[Black Dog]

The internment was the responsibility of our government. Not a whim or a bigotted move.

We should be so lucky that our government should have those balls now, because we're going to be in a similar situation soon....but with a much more imminent threat.

Yeah, the goverment showed great strength and foresight by preempting the threat posed by women, children, the elderly and of course, their property. It takes big brass one's to cast aspersions on an entire group's loyalties based soley on their racial origins and not on any evidence of disloyalty whatsoever. It takes even bigger balls to defend that action. Of course, balls ain't brains.

First of all, internment has nothing to do with race or religion. It has to do with enemy status

And how are you judging who qualifies as an enemy? Why, race and religion!

[betsy]

THIS is the problem right here.

People believeing they are superior because of the country they reside in....

All human beings are equal. All of us. You, me and that asshat next door are all equals. To believe otherwise is bigotry plain and simple.

Well you and BuffyCat seem to have your perspectives all screwed up if you both can't even understand....let alone see the stark difference between our ways and their ways!

I am busy right now so I cannot really get into this...perhaps later.

But before I leave let me just throw a teeny-weeny name.....one of thousands....but perhaps this name will strike a chord into your hearts, after all she is a Canadian woman of Iranian descent...whose only mistake happened to be that of holding a camera. Her torture, beatings and murder made the headlines!

Hers may not be the "internment" we are talking about, BUT her tragedy may perhaps give you and BuffyCat - although I do have grave doubts about that - a little idea what being interned in the bowels of hell would be like if you happen to be....an enemy.

Kazemi.

If you feel good seeing yourself as morally equal with those barbarians and insisting that you are, who am I to say nay?

So you relate with them!

But I still say, morally, I am not their equal! I am superior!

[Drea]

Do you even believe that you (a lowly female in your opinion, as you've stated before) are actually superior to their men? Wow...

Do your "morals" come from your religion?

Then you believe your religion is superior. YOUR fantasy daddy is better than their fantasy daddy!

Bigot.

[betsy]

Do you even believe that you (a lowly female in your opinion, as you've stated before) are actually superior to their men? Wow...

Do your "morals" come from your religion?

Then you believe your religion is superior. YOUR fantasy daddy is better than their fantasy daddy!

Bigot.

So now you desperately grasp at anything to throw at me. From religion....to feministic fantasy....to daddy? <yawn>

And now I'm a bigot, you say. Like as if I'd care a twit what you think of me.

Coming from you - who has proudly aligned her morals to the very same level as those who think nothing of torturing men and women just for the sheer pleasure of it, and deliberately blowing up civilians and children to bits - your opinion means nothing to me.

Besides I'd much prefer to be a called a bigot, than to be known as a collaborator or a traitor!

Well, seeing that we're not on the same level at all - with me up here and you down there - I have no wish to waste my time on you.

My last advice to you: whatever you do, don't settle for the dwarfs. Bad choice.

Hasta la vista.

[FascistLibertarian]

The RCMP and the Canadian Military stated that the Japanese were not a threat.

Germany let spies off in Canada on at least 2 occasions, and they were sinking our ships in the St. Larwence.

You draw your own conclusions.

The Japanses monarchy as a devine monarchy was a recent cultural construction. Sure some Japanese were loyal to Japan, some may have been planning to act, but to consider everyone guilty isnt Canadian.

A few hicks in BC made a stink with the help of a few politicans got the ball rolling. King went along because he thought the BC politicians had their ears to the ground.

Yes it was wrong and it was also not needed.

I speak as someone who had a relative in Hong Kong who was subject to the worst possibly conditions for 4 years, I dont think what we did to the Japanese was right and I dont think the issue of how they treated Canadians is at all related.

It was not done on the grounds of military stratigic nessecity (which I think you could argue would justify the deportation of the Acadians for example) and therefore should not have happened.

[M.Dancer]

The Japanses monarchy as a devine monarchy was a recent cultural construction.

Yeah I don't think the divine part is older that 1500 years.....

[Drea]

The sad part of this whole thing is that normally good people like Betsy would be willing to "detain" or "inter" their fellow citizens or call them terrorist "collaborators" for no reason other than a difference of opinion.

Religion turns good people into bad people. The proof is right here.

Betsy, how do we determine who is muslim if we are to "intern" all muslims?

How about arm bands or tatoos on the wrist... for identification purposes of course.

[FascistLibertarian]

Really? The Japanese monarch was considered divine 1500 years ago? Wow thats news to me.

I guess all the books and articles I have read have been wrong.

Could you please cite your source, if you dotn have one I am sure you could make a lot of money by advancing this new theory.

[M.Dancer]

Really? The Japanese monarch was considered divine 1500 years ago? Wow thats news to me.

I guess all the books and articles I have read have been wrong.

Could you please cite your source, if you dotn have one I am sure you could make a lot of money by advancing this new theory.

Do you know how old the Japanese Monarchy is? The current dynasty is 2500 years old.

If you claim that it is a new thing, please provide a citation.

[jazzer]

We are a superior people.

Now that's scary.

[FascistLibertarian]

The role of the Japanese monarchy has varied greatly over time and space.

While it has beena round for a logn period it was not untilt he 1800's that the push came to bring it back.

The idea of the monarch as 'divine' has more to do with centralizing the country and controling the population than any ancient tradition.

The problem is we in Canada/US/UK knew this, yet assumed the Japanese were to stupid to figure it out.

[M.Dancer]

The role of the Japanese monarchy has varied greatly over time and space.

While it has beena round for a logn period it was not untilt he 1800's that the push came to bring it back.

The idea of the monarch as 'divine' has more to do with centralizing the country and controling the population than any ancient tradition.

The problem is we in Canada/US/UK knew this, yet assumed the Japanese were to stupid to figure it out.

So in otherwords, you're making this up......