Rick Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Double Jeopardy? Is he serving time in Guantanamo Bay for Treason? The act of picking up a weapon or building an IED and fighting against Canada is treason. Except he wasn't fighting against Canada...Something you're conveniently overlooking I'm sure. Quote “This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country. Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011
Topaz Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 My view is he should be allowed to come back to Canada and serve his time, even though, he pleaded guilty to be able to come back to Canada, kinda like black mail by the governments. I wouldn't be surprised if after serving his time, he and his family would leave Canada. So I think very eveyone should chill, especially the Harper government. Quote
wyly Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 No, my reasoning is that if you are innocent then you fight it, if you plead guilty even if it is to a lesser crime you are guilty regardless of wether you commited the crime or not. If you are found guilty by the courts, you are guilty, if you plead guilty you are guilty. your reasoning is completely detached from reality...here are the choices -life in prison with no parole and no civil rights in Guantanamo bay or - plead guilty and receive credit for time served, plus one year... hmmm oh yeah that's a tough call, anyone faced with those options will certainly need time to mull that over, at least a nanosecond.... standing up for your principles is so easy to do when it's not actually your life on the line, talk is cheap...let's call this BS on your part, not even your mother would believe you... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 My view is he should be allowed to come back to Canada and serve his time, even though, he pleaded guilty to be able to come back to Canada, kinda like black mail by the governments. I wouldn't be surprised if after serving his time, he and his family would leave Canada. So I think very eveyone should chill, especially the Harper government. he may leave but not until he's completed his multimillion dollar lawsuit...and seeing as every court decision regarding his treatment by the government has gone his way it's a good bet there's huge payout coming his way... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Rick Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 he may leave but not until he's completed his multimillion dollar lawsuit...and seeing as every court decision regarding his treatment by the government has gone his way it's a good bet there's huge payout coming his way... And he deserves it with the gross and willful misconduct that has been carried out against him.Contrary to the decade of political indifference, a staggering number of Canadian court rulings have gone in Mr. Khadr’s favour. The Federal Court has sided with him four times, the Federal Court of Appeal twice. Most notably, the Supreme Court of Canada has, on two occasions, concluded that Canada has violated his rights. The second of those judgments was rendered in January, 2010, but more than two years later, the government has failed to provide a remedy for the violations.The courts have always grasped the concerns at the centre of this case. Numerous UN human-rights experts have also urged Canada to protect Mr. Khadr’s rights, including the UN Committee Against Torture just last month. All have been ignored. Other governments have lived up to their side of similar plea deals. The Sudanese government accepted the return of one of its nationals from Guantanamo earlier this month. The U.S. wants detainees to believe that plea deals mean something and must be particularly frustrated that a close ally like Canada continues to stall. But it shouldn’t take a court order, UN criticism or U.S. pressure. Canada should simply do the right thing. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/canada-must-bring-khadr-home-without-further-delay/article4439079/?cmpid=rss1 Quote “This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country. Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011
Signals.Cpl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 One would think that would qualify as treason during war/conflicts. Yeah, instead we have people within our government sending emails to serving soldiers asking them to sign a petition to return Khadr back to Canada. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 I wouldn't be surprised if after serving his time, he and his family would leave Canada. So I think very eveyone should chill, especially the Harper government. From your lips to God's ears, but I doubt it, where else would they get treatment for his brother? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Guest American Woman Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 The simple answer is that he was guilty. The complicated answer also boils down to him being guilty. That he apologized to Speer's widow speaks of his guilt to me; I'd like to hear what those who believe without a doubt that he was coerced to plead guilty have to say about that, but I suspect they will remain silent. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 your reasoning is completely detached from reality... here are the choices -life in prison with no parole and no civil rights in Guantanamo bay or - plead guilty and receive credit for time served, plus one year... hmmm oh yeah that's a tough call, anyone faced with those options will certainly need time to mull that over, at least a nanosecond.... standing up for your principles is so easy to do when it's not actually your life on the line, talk is cheap...let's call this BS on your part, not even your mother would believe you... And you can't read. Guilty is guilty, you can't have it both ways, you plead guilty to a crime and then you claim you are innocent it just does not make sense. I don't care if you are innocent, if you plead guilty you are guilty as by your admission. With your logic, every criminal who pleads guilty is innocent. Yeah, it is hard, yet so many people stand behind their principles every day and risk their lives for what they believe in, one example would be SFC Christopher Speer who died because he stood up for his principles. You seem like a naive little child who needs to move out of your parents basement and see the real world, he pled guilty knowing that if he didn't he will actually be held accountable for his crime and face appropriate punishment rather than end up back in Canada and be treated like a little prince by his naive and ill-informed supporters. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 he may leave but not until he's completed his multimillion dollar lawsuit...and seeing as every court decision regarding his treatment by the government has gone his way it's a good bet there's huge payout coming his way... How many court decisions are you talking about? One? Ten? One hundred? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 Still posting insults I see.... Is it that time of the month? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 Except he wasn't fighting against Canada... Something you're conveniently overlooking I'm sure. Ok, so please explain with proof where each and every IED that he build was placed...hopefully the Taliban keep good records and are cooperative. At the same time contact the DoD and the DND and ask them where and to which unit each CF special forces operator was posted in 2001-2002 and if they were in the vicinity of any of those IED's. I'm sure the DoD and the DND will be more than willing to inform you of those details as well. He picked up a rifle and build IED's and used them in a country where CF snipers, and JTF2 operators were working together with and attached to American units the CF WAS fighting the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan in 2002, a fact you seem to ignore which is kind of typical for you since you don't like facts. Also please note that the PPCLI was in Afghanistan FIGHTING against the Taliban and al-Qaeda while Khadr was fighting against against Canada. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
wyly Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 And you can't read. Guilty is guilty, you can't have it both ways, you plead guilty to a crime and then you claim you are innocent it just does not make sense. I don't care if you are innocent, if you plead guilty you are guilty as by your admission. With your logic, every criminal who pleads guilty is innocent. Yeah, it is hard, yet so many people stand behind their principles every day and risk their lives for what they believe in, one example would be SFC Christopher Speer who died because he stood up for his principles. You seem like a naive little child who needs to move out of your parents basement and see the real world, he pled "plead" guilty knowing that if he didn't he will actually be held accountable for his crime and face appropriate punishment rather than end up back in Canada and be treated like a little prince by his naive and ill-informed supporters. can't read? before you make accusations on reading capability you should start working on your spelling, how's that grade 12 education working for you it's a good thing the military still has such meager standards who else would hire you with gr12, 711, Tim's?give up it up with the melodramatic crap you're nothing but a wanna be hero...who the f*** goes around posting his rank in an anonymous chat room other than attention seeking posers...get a life no one's impressed... living in my parents basement I was living on my own working in the arctic when I was 17 when your daddy was still picking his nose in kindergarten... endless insults, lacking the simplest level of critical thinking, endlessly stupid posts, it's time to move you to the ignore zone... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Army Guy Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 if you're facing a plea to get 2yrs less a day vs 2yrs +, future background checks is the last thing going through your mind...imagine this extreme case scenario, you have been charged with a murder you haven't committed the prosecution offers a reduced manslaughter charge, your lawyer advises to take it, do you plead guilty to a manslaughter charge and take a 6yr sentence or stand your ground on principle and risk 25yrs of your best adult years behind bars? do future employment background checks ever become an consideration?.... and we both know this isn't a fantasy situation a number of Canadians have been exonerated of murder charges in recent years due to DNA evidence and review of inept medical coroner testimony ... Your missing the piont according to the law your guilty end of story.... Just what kind of future do you think Omar has,if he does not recieve a multi million dollar settlement, he might get a job as a walmart greeter...regardless of how much time he saved on his sentence, hoping that his name will be cleared of his charges, whats the odds in omars case next to none. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Signals.Cpl Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 Can't read? Before you make accusations on reading capability you should start working on your spelling, how's that grade 12 education working for you it's a good thing the military still has such meager standards who else would hire you with gr12, 711, Tim's? Give up it up with the melodramatic crap you're nothing but a wanna be hero...who the f*** goes around posting his rank in an anonymous chat room other than attention seeking posers...get a life no one's impressed... Living in my parents basement I was living on my own working in the arctic when I was 17 when your daddy was still picking his nose in kindergarten... Endless insults, lacking the simplest level of critical thinking, endlessly stupid posts, it's time to move you to the ignore zone... Tried my best, but you seriously need some education before you start criticizing me. If you were anything other than a naive little child who cannot control his emotions, or use capital letters you would be able to form a complete thought but your limited intelligence and lack of character does show in your posts and all of that is emphasized by your obvious lack of education. Also, I am proud of what I have done and where I am in life and as such I don't need to hide my accomplishments in order to make children with insignificant lives feel better about themselves. I don't need nor do I expect for anyone to be "impressed" by my rank, but I will not hide my rank to make you feel better about your meagre life as I mentioned above. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
wyly Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 Your missing the piont according to the law your guilty end of story.... Just what kind of future do you think Omar has,if he does not recieve a multi million dollar settlement, he might get a job as a walmart greeter...regardless of how much time he saved on his sentence, hoping that his name will be cleared of his charges, whats the odds in omars case next to none. well maybe you're missing the point ...I've worked with a number of ex cons(murder, drug dealers, thieves, DUI) and their past just didn't matter to me...there are millions of jobs in canada where your past just doesn't matter...their past is history to me (as long as they're not a pedophile) I don't much care and I'd hire them, I'm only interested what they can do for me now not what they did in the past, I'm not looking to become buddies with them...Omar-if he had a skill/trade that I required his past is absolutely of no interest to me, I'd hire him... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Signals.Cpl Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) well maybe you're missing the point ...I've worked with a number of ex cons(murder, drug dealers, thieves, DUI) and their past just didn't matter to me...there are millions of jobs in canada where your past just doesn't matter...their past is history to me (as long as they're not a pedophile) I don't much care and I'd hire them, I'm only interested what they can do for me now not what they did in the past, I'm not looking to become buddies with them... Omar-if he had a skill/trade that I required his past is absolutely of no interest to me, I'd hire him... Wow, that explains so much...But you still couldn't find the Shift key... Edited July 26, 2012 by Signals.Cpl Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
The_Squid Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 That he apologized to Speer's widow speaks of his guilt to me; I'd like to hear what those who believe without a doubt that he was coerced to plead guilty have to say about that, but I suspect they will remain silent. Perhaps he was told to do so or no deal. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) quote]their past is history to me (as long as they're not a pedophile) You do care, you stated as much, i'm sure there is a few more you would not hire as well, i wonder how far this belief would go if your customer base found out you've hire murders, terrorist, drug dealers if they would continue doing business with you, would you stand on your principles by keeping them employed if it meant the loss of revenue.... And yes while there are millions of jobs out there who do you think is going to hire young mr omar, except you of course....for just those reasons i spoke off. Unless of course it was another terrorist org they'd love to have him. Omar-if he had a skill/trade that I required his past is absolutely of no interest to me, I'd hire him... he does have skills he can fire/ maintain a multitude of automatic wpns, RPG's, and make bombs, and can bullshit with the best of them. and he knows the Koran pretty well, are these skills your looking for. Or maybe your looking to cut terrorist some slack and train him so he'll have some other skills. Edited July 26, 2012 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
wyly Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Perhaps he was told to do so or no deal. standard procedure every lawyer advises their client to apologize...I've a law book that states exactly that...whether anyone believes it's genuine is another matter... Edited July 26, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 You do care, you stated as much, i'm sure there is a few more you would not hire as well, i wonder how far this belief would go if your customer base found out you've hire murders, terrorist, drug dealers if they would continue doing business with you, would you stand on your principles by keeping them employed if it meant the loss of revenue.... And yes while there are millions of jobs out there who do you think is going to hire young mr omar, except you of course....for just those reasons i spoke off. Unless of course it was another terrorist org they'd love to have him. oh give it up...pedophiles are a world apart from any other criminal, even the criminals despise them...I've never had a client inquire as to the background of anyone I've had working for me... and I'd have no issue walking away from a job if one did...and I've fired people working for me who had issues with my clients background...i don't tolerate intolerance, so you wouldn't last a week working for me... have you ever had a real job? do you have any idea how the world works outside the sheltered life in the military?...it seems to be a reoccurring theme here on the forum lately... he does have skills he can fire/ maintain a multitude of automatic wpns, RPG's, and make bombs, and can bullshit with the best of them. and he knows the Koran pretty well, are these skills your looking for. Or maybe your looking to cut terrorist some slack and train him so he'll have some other skills.oh my that was a pointless rant wasn't it...did serve any purpose?...did you make any relevant points? hmmm no... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Army Guy Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) oh give it up...pedophiles are a world apart from any other criminal, even the criminals despise them... Oh i get it it's ok not to hire Pedophiles , but the rest of us intolerant because we've extended that list to include Murders, rapists, etc etc my piont here is you have no ground judging me when you, yourself are just as guilty of being intolent. I've never had a client inquire as to the background of anyone I've had working for me... and I'd have no issue walking away from a job if one did...and I've fired people working for me who had issues with my clients background...i don't tolerate intolerance, so you wouldn't last a week working for me... I do it to all the contractors that i've hired, and guess what I've NEVER HAD ONE REFUSE Yet, I've asked them to change those workers out and NOT once did they refuse. And if they are insulted tough shit, I'm sorry but my families safety overrides some hurt feelings. And i've worked along side some winners before, i'm sure they'd make your criminals look like chior boys, but then again i was armed, and had the training to deal with them. but working with badasses is one thing inviting them into your home with your family there to do some work or provide a service is another. But hey if you say i would,nt last a week then so be it. And yet thousands of companys give extra credits for military service can you explain that. Not bad for being a fake job...does working for you provide the same benifits... have you ever had a real job? do you have any idea how the world works outside the sheltered life in the military?...it seems to be a reoccurring theme here on the forum lately... you make me laugh WYLY, so now we have come to this, my dick is bigger than yours... And yet who is being childish now.... OK you win,your job is real and mine is fake....Your dick is bigger.... And yes we do live a sheltered lives, we are kept in glass cabinets until something bad happens...I'm not allowed to watch the News, read a news paper, or even travel off the base, god forbid we inter act with real Canadians such as yourself..shit we might even be liked....I mean if it was not for all the hard work WYLY puts in, our nation would not be in its current shape it is....I just want everone to stop for a minute and give WYLY a hand for being a real Canadian. Wyly you don't have to like the people in the Military, we are not looking for your approval or praise, but regardless of what you think.... we do what we do for every Canadian, good, bad, or guys like you WYLE.... oh my that was a pointless rant wasn't it...did serve any purpose?...did you make any relevant points? hmmm no... Ya it had a piont Omar has been on the battle field or locked up since he was 11 years old, what skills do you think he has, what makes you think he even except a job working for an infidel, because he's changed, give me a break....his hatred has only grown, you think letting him out early or even giving him some money is going to change that....your a dreamer.... Edited July 26, 2012 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Rick Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 have you ever had a real job? do you have any idea how the world works outside the sheltered life in the military?...it seems to be a reoccurring theme here on the forum lately... I believe you hit the nail on the head here wyly, those in the military do lead sheltered lives. They really do think they're somehow better or more deserving than others and the country in it's misguided views have enabled them by giving them 'hero' status. Quote “This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country. Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011
Rick Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 I do it to all the contractors that i've hired, and guess what I've NEVER HAD ONE REFUSE Yet, I've asked them to change those workers out and NOT once did they refuse. And if they are insulted tough shit, I'm sorry but my families safety overrides some hurt feelings. And i've worked along side some winners before, i'm sure they'd make your criminals look like chior boys, but then again i was armed, and had the training to deal with them. but working with badasses is one thing inviting them into your home with your family there to do some work or provide a service is another. :lol: You ever had DND move you when you were transferred? I know for a fact that up until 2 years ago none of those movers had a background check done. There's at least one major van lines who does the bulk of all dnd moves who only started insisting on background checks for all labour this year and that's been spotty at best because they can't find enough manpower to keep up with the work. Quote “This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country. Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011
eyeball Posted July 26, 2012 Report Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) That he apologized to Speer's widow speaks of his guilt to me; I'd like to hear what those who believe without a doubt that he was coerced to plead guilty have to say about that, but I suspect they will remain silent. I think Tabitha Speer has been as victimized as Omar Khadr. To paraphrase Radhika Coomaraswamy's words, Tabitha Speer represents the classic victim narrative, recruited by unscrupulous persecutors to put a shine on the actions of their employers, the real war criminals that conducted an immoral war immorally. Apparently she doubt's the sincerity of Khadr's apology - like those who doubt the veracity of his guilty plea is my guess. I'm not surprised. Edited July 26, 2012 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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