g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 training in osama's camp at age ten...he never had a choice, his fate was decided for him... Okay. So, he was trained by Al-Qaeda a couple of times starting at age 10. It was still when he was 15 that he asked to go from Waziristan to be, by himself, with Al-Qaeda members in Afghanistan. That's within the parameters set by the international conventions. The same make no mention of the impact of a 15 year old's upbringing on his or her decision to join a militant organisation upon or after reaching the age of 15. Quote
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Evidence? what would evidence do for you? you have shown no ability to comprehend any medical or legal evidence or concepts presented, you only spout personal uninformed opinions based on what???? absolutely nothing... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 what would evidence do for you? you have shown no ability to comprehend any medical or legal evidence or concepts presented, you only spout personal uninformed opinions based on what???? absolutely nothing... You can huff and puff all you want, but this is way out of your league... go play with your dolls and let the adults discuss here. You base your argument on feelings, then you accuse others of doing so, and cry and whine that their arguments are invalid when they don't agree with you... go get hug and a tissue, wipe your tears and run along now. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 He was getting better legal representation than most of us can ever dream about let alone afford. Likely. But legal representation alone isn't due process. There are many parts of the latter not offered to Omar at Guantanamo. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Likely. But legal representation alone isn't due process. There are many parts of the latter not offered to Omar at Guantanamo. Then we will know better so that next time he goes out and kills one of our people or our allies we can do it right. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Then we will know better so that next time he goes out and kills one of our people or our allies we can do it right. Okay, sure. Or, maybe he'll have a trial upon repatriation. [ed.: +] Edited July 20, 2012 by g_bambino Quote
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Okay. So, he was trained by Al-Qaeda a couple of times starting at age 10. It was still when he was 15 that he asked to go from Waziristan to be, by himself, with Al-Qaeda members in Afghanistan. That's within the parameters set by the international conventions. The same make no mention of the impact of a 15 year old's upbringing on his or her decision to join a militant organisation upon or after reaching the age of 15. so do you believe an indoctrinated kid can suddenly turn off what's been drilled into his head the day he turns 15? he was part of that organization 5 years before he was 15...here's the parameters-he was he was recruited years before age 15...not after 15... The Parties to the conflict shall take all feasible measures in order that children who have not attained the age of fifteen years do not take a direct part in hostilities and, in particular, they shall refrain from recruiting them into their armed forces. In recruiting among those persons who have attained the age of fifteen years but who have not attained the age of eighteen years, the Parties to the conflict shall endeavour to give priority to those who are oldest. Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Okay, sure. Or, maybe he'll have a trial upon repatriation. [ed.: +] I doubt that. Ten years in Guantanamo Bay probably didn't do much in the way of rehabilitating him , but he is coming back so we will see what happens. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 You can huff and puff all you want, but this is way out of your league... go play with your dolls and let the adults discuss here. You base your argument on feelings, then you accuse others of doing so, and cry and whine that their arguments are invalid when they don't agree with you... go get hug and a tissue, wipe your tears and run along now. awww are someone's feeling hurt? ...did the post where I questioned your education cut too deep? .. hey no worries you can probably take on Shady and debate him on equal terms...but then again, maybe not... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Likely. But legal representation alone isn't due process. There are many parts of the latter not offered to Omar at Guantanamo. I don't of a court system in the western democracies where any of what went on in Guantanamo would've been permissible, the case would've never been heard had it reached a court in the US proper... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 awww are someone's feeling hurt? ...did the post where I questioned your education cut too deep? .. hey no worries you can probably take on Shady and debate him on equal terms...but then again, maybe not... You are the one throwing the tantrums not me... if you cant handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 so do you believe an indoctrinated kid can suddenly turn off what's been drilled into his head the day he turns 15? he was part of that organization 5 years before he was 15... I'm saying it doesn't legally matter in the context of Omar's alleged crime. He was taken by his father to Al-Qaeda camps before he was 15; so, his father and Al-Qaeda seem to be in breach of international laws (as though that were any surprise). However, when living in Waziristan, at age 15, he asked to go, by himself (i.e. without his father or any other family member) be with an Al-Qaeda affiliated group to Khost as their translator. I repeat again: the international conventions make no mention of the impact of a 15 year old's upbringing on his or her decision to join a militant organisation upon or after reaching the age of 15. Quote
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 You are the one throwing the tantrums not me... if you cant handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. oh wow original cliche! you're really killing me with your incredible intellect...whatever was I thinking when entered this debate I've met my match, you're obviously a master debater.. Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) I'm saying it doesn't legally matter in the context of Omar's alleged crime. He was taken by his father to Al-Qaeda camps before he was 15; so, his father and Al-Qaeda seem to be in breach of international laws (as though that were any surprise). However, when living in Waziristan, at age 15, he asked to go, by himself (i.e. without his father or any other family member) be with an Al-Qaeda affiliated group to Khost as their translator. I repeat again: the international conventions make no mention of the impact of a 15 year old's upbringing on his or her decision to join a militant organisation upon or after reaching the age of 15. well we could argue this point forever and neither one of us is a lawyer in international law...Imo the parameters for child soldiers are quite clear, he was a fully indoctrinated child soldier when he was stationed at his last place post, where he ended up and when and how he ended up there is irrelevant...he was fully indoctrinated into al Qaeda and having a 15th birthday didn't magically erase that thought process which is consistent with Stockholm Syndrome...and had he been held for trial anywhere else but Guantanamo Bay he would've been freed years ago...the best we can do here bambino is agree to disagree... Edited July 20, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
jbg Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Then you are guilty, if you plead guilty you are guilty regardless of whether you consider yourself innocent or guilty.Unless your death cult membership religion provides exemption for senseless slaughter martyrdom. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
eyeball Posted July 21, 2012 Report Posted July 21, 2012 The parts of international conventions relating to children and military activity indicate that a person 15 years of age and over has the faculties and enough information to decide to join a militant organisation and take part in hostilites. When the child is recruited at the age of 15 perhaps but I doubt that any real civilized being would hold any 15 year old to that same standard after having been forced into that organization at the age of 10, unless of course he had a little peach fuzz on his chin. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted July 21, 2012 Report Posted July 21, 2012 At 16 I did enough stupid things, most often because I thought I could get away with it, but I knew the difference between right and wrong Given your position towards Omar Khadr I'd have to say you've obviously forgotten the difference. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
wyly Posted July 21, 2012 Report Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) When the child is recruited at the age of 15 perhaps but I doubt that any real civilized being would hold any 15 year old to that same standard after having been forced into that organization at the age of 10, unless of course he had a little peach fuzz on his chin. even then a 15 yr old in canada would likely be released by now and he would've never been tortured in jail...then there is the bigger of combat in a war zone, people were trying to kill him, in wars you're allowed to defend yourself because it's a "war"...of course the counter to that people will say "oh it wasn't really a war" and they were illegal combatants so rules of war don't apply because they're " not really an army" so we can ignore the Geneva convention on treatment of prisoners...which all strange because I was certain it was called the war on terror, and that attacking and invading a sovereign country(Afghanistan) was an act of war...but those who resisted can't be a legal army protected by the Geneva convention because the country was to poor to afford uniforms... you'll notice no one from the US government is calling the Libyan rebels illegal combatants, and when the Syrian regime collapses the captured leadership will be charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity while the illegal rebel force will be heroic freedom fighters...unless they're the Muslim brotherhood in case they'll be terrorists... as usual the victor decides how and when to apply the rules, rules that are bent and twisted to suit their purpose, legality, civil law, human rights only apply to the "good" guys... Edited July 21, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bleeding heart Posted July 22, 2012 Report Posted July 22, 2012 you'll notice no one from the US government is calling the Libyan rebels illegal combatants, and when the Syrian regime collapses the captured leadership will be charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity while the illegal rebel force will be heroic freedom fighters...unless they're the Muslim brotherhood in case they'll be terrorists... You're right, and such convenient notions apply generally. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
cybercoma Posted July 22, 2012 Report Posted July 22, 2012 I don't know if it was here or somewhere else that people were calling for Khadr to be charged with treason, but I was looking into some things and it turns out that treason carries a 3 year statute of limitations. Quote
g_bambino Posted July 23, 2012 Report Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) well we could argue this point forever and neither one of us is a lawyer in international law...Imo the parameters for child soldiers are quite clear, he was a fully indoctrinated child soldier when he was stationed at his last place post, where he ended up and when and how he ended up there is irrelevant...he was fully indoctrinated into al Qaeda and having a 15th birthday didn't magically erase that thought process which is consistent with Stockholm Syndrome...and had he been held for trial anywhere else but Guantanamo Bay he would've been freed years ago... I'm not going to deny that there's a lot of murkyness around Omar Khadr's case, including the definition of "child soldier" (the term, desipte its regular use, isn't specifically defined in any international law or convention that I've seen). And, yes, neither you (I assume) nor I are lawyers steeped in international law. However, there are some basics that one doesn't need to be a lawyer in order to understand and we can formulate our opinions on them. It seems to me that, since it's unclear that Omar was taken in as a fighting Al-Qaeda member before he was 15 - Does a few trips to training camps with dad qualify as membership? Does "indocrtination" into believing in the organisation's ethos? (Would the child of a Canadain Forces member who was bought up to respect and believe in the CF and who was taught by his or her military parent to use firearms and then volunteered to join the CF at 16 be considered an indocrinated child soldier?) - it's not possible to say with certainty that Omar was a child soldier. Until other facts come to light, if there are any, that is, those we have available to us - the international conventions set 15 as the age at which people can be recruited to fight by militant organisations, Omar was not abducted by Al-Qaeda operatives and forced to fight for them, he was not raised in Al-Qaeda camps, he had been living with his mother for some time in Waziristan before he, by then over 15, volunteered to go work with Al-Qaeda operatives and ended up making IEDs and throwing a grenade at a US soldier - indicate he would not meet the requirements to be classified as a child soldier at the time of his arrest by US forces. But, hey, that's just my opinion. [ed.: c/e] Edited July 23, 2012 by g_bambino Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 oh wow original cliche! you're really killing me with your incredible intellect...whatever was I thinking when entered this debate I've met my match, you're obviously a master debater.. Your match is a wall... anything other than a wall and you will lose whatever argument you are supporting. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 I don't know if it was here or somewhere else that people were calling for Khadr to be charged with treason, but I was looking into some things and it turns out that treason carries a 3 year statute of limitations. Can you provide a source? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
cybercoma Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 Can you provide a source? Yeah. It's called the Criminal Code of Canada. Section 48 if you need help narrowing it down. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 and bring in a lawyer at several hundred dollars per, more court dates, more lost time for what? ...there was no guarantee I would win, shit happens I could've been fined,demerit pts against my driving record, increased insurance fees...pleading guilty in exchange for no demerit pts, no fine, no legal fees worked for me... but the point was people plead out for reduced sentences even when innocent... If you are innocent why make a plea? Why plead guilty to something lesser when you know you have not done anything wrong? Why would you let the judicial system screw you like that? If everyone stopped making pleas for something they did not do, what kind of society do we live in? You mentioned the cop did not even show for the hearing correct? Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.