Khadr should make us ashamed to be Canadian

Moonlight Graham · April 25, 2009

JBG.. Omar was a child born in Canada to Canadian parents, and welcomed by Canadian grandparents. He's as much a REAL Canadian as I am.
If the rights of that REAL Canadian can be thrown out the window of convenience, than so can the rights of everyone else.

I agree. He's a Canadian. He's not even a former immigrant. He was a freaking kid when recruited and a kid when he did the supposed crimes (that he hasn't face trail on). Our gov't can't pick and choose whose rights we should uphold and whose we should ignore.

In my opinion he has not been brought home by the Con gov't due to simple bigotry & racism. If this was a white boy and his last name was "Johnson" he'd be well home by now.

kimmy · April 25, 2009

I agree. He's a Canadian. He's not even a former immigrant. He was a freaking kid when recruited and a kid when he did the supposed crimes (that he hasn't face trail on). Our gov't can't pick and choose whose rights we should uphold and whose we should ignore.
In my opinion he has not been brought home by the Con gov't due to simple bigotry & racism. If this was a white boy and his last name was "Johnson" he'd be well home by now.

Kind of like how that Johnny Walker-Lindh fellow received such a warm welcome?

(oh, sure, he's back on US soil... but he won't be "home" for about 20 years.)

-k

eyeball · April 25, 2009

In my opinion he has not been brought home by the Con gov't due to simple bigotry & racism. If this was a white boy and his last name was "Johnson" he'd be well home by now.

Bingo. This is nothing more than petty political pandering to a base that is becoming more pathetic and pitiful with each slip of a polling point.

If Conservatives insist on bringing more shame on Canada, more power to the other parties I guess.

kimmy · April 25, 2009

The attempt to make this about race is pathetic.

And if there is bigotry involved, it is bigotry against families of admitted terrorists and extremists. I would hope that most Canadians share that bigotry.

-k

tango · April 25, 2009

Kind of like how that Johnny Walker-Lindh fellow received such a warm welcome?
(oh, sure, he's back on US soil... but he won't be "home" for about 20 years.)

-k

http://media.www.thespartandaily.com/media...s-3717179.shtml

"John, himself, is very scholarly and thorough in studying traditional Islam," Lindh said. "When he heard bin Laden speak, he recognized almost immediately that he was not a scholar. So John found him boring and he actually reported that he fell asleep while bin Laden was speaking at the camp one night."

Lindh said his son explained in his sentencing statement to the court in 2002 that he joined the Afghan army to help defend innocent civilians who were being victimized by the Northern Alliance warlords.

John Lindh knew that bin Laden was funding the military camp where he was training, his father said, but did not know bin Laden was funding terrorist operations as well.

A major point that Lindh emphasized was that John was immediately labeled guilty of terrorism by the government, and the media was biased and unconstitutional.

"Even the president said that he was an al-Qaida warrior, which is wrong," said Richard Gonzales, a sophomore mechanical engineering student. "We have no evidence to prove that's right, so how can we really say that he's guilty of all these crimes?"

kimmy · April 25, 2009

"Even the president said that he was an al-Qaida warrior, which is wrong," said Richard Gonzales, a sophomore mechanical engineering student. "We have no evidence to prove that's right, so how can we really say that he's guilty of all these crimes?"

Everyone hates him so much... and he's not even really a terrorist? Clearly this is racism!

Clearly he's in prison due to pure bigotry and racism! If his name were ... "Johnson" instead of Walker, he'd be home by now!

-k

eyeball · April 25, 2009

The attempt to make this about race is pathetic.
And if there is bigotry involved, it is bigotry against families of admitted terrorists and extremists. I would hope that most Canadians share that bigotry.

-k

Given the number of references Conservatives have made to lax Canadian immigration standards in the context of Omar Khadr's case its a little late to cry now about this also being about race.

The attempt to pander to the political base this issue outrages the most is what's really pathetic though. There is also something particularily pathetic about using family associations to explain the behaviour of a kid and to justify the kids treatment.

At least you're being consistent, as I recall you seem to think that being raised and abused by crack parents shouldn't mitigate the treatment of 14 year olds that might go bad or leave room for any chance of parole when they do. If that's the kind of bigotry you believe Canadians should share you should be ashamed.

There are inviolable laws that protect kids in all cases no matter what the circumstances for a damned good reason. Its just too bad you don't get it, but perhaps you don't want to.

kimmy · April 25, 2009

At least you're being consistent, as I recall you seem to think that being raised and abused by crack parents shouldn't mitigate the treatment of 14 year olds that might go bad or leave room for any chance of parole when they do. If that's the kind of bigotry you believe Canadians should share you should be ashamed.

I said that if a 14 year old is too dangerous to be out on the street, then he should absolutely be held in custody.

Since I repeatedly said that I did not support the "without parole" part of the sentence given to that person, your attempt to put those words in my mouth makes you look like something of a douchebag.

As for the Khadr family, I think discussion of immigration standards is legitimate (if terribly late) to see if there were some way that these imbeciles could have been screened out before they ever got to our country. Considering the same questions can (and have) been asked in regard to gangsters from Russia and Italy and apply equally to undesirables from European countries, I don't think trying to spin it as racism works.

As for Omar, what do you anticipate happens when he returns to our country? It will be quickly ruled that Canada has no legal means of putting him on trial and no legal means of holding him in custody, so what then? Is he just going to go work at a McDonalds or something?

-k

Molly · April 25, 2009

Walker-Lindh was actually tried, and convicted... wasn't a child, is an American citizen, and IS home.

None of those things is true of Khadr.

He is still being held without trial, after 7 years-- that's SEVEN years, half of his pre-detention lifespan. He's the last remaining westerner in the camp.

At the rate things are going, he'll be the last PRISONER left there, and still not have had his day in court!

kimmy · April 25, 2009

Walker-Lindh was actually tried, and convicted... wasn't a child, is an American citizen, and IS home.
None of those things is true of Khadr.

The claim being made is that people would be somehow more sympathetic if Omar were a white person.

I offer the perception of Walker-Lindh as Exhibit A in addressing how sympathetic people have been to white people who take up the cause of the other side.

I offer the response to Beverly Giesbrecht/Khadija Abdul Qahaar as Exhibit B.

-k

jbg · April 25, 2009

Kind of like how that Johnny Walker-Lindh fellow received such a warm welcome?
(oh, sure, he's back on US soil... but he won't be "home" for about 20 years.)

-k

You're spot on this one. Khadr should be welcomed home, and swing high in the air in the process.

jbg · April 25, 2009

In my opinion he has not been brought home by the Con gov't due to simple bigotry & racism. If this was a white boy and his last name was "Johnson" he'd be well home by now.

It was him and his family that made the decision he was going to be a "fighter". Any "fighter" who fights Canada and its allies should be prepared to face the consequences regardless of age.

Moonlight Graham · April 25, 2009

It was him and his family that made the decision he was going to be a "fighter". Any "fighter" who fights Canada and its allies should be prepared to face the consequences regardless of age.

You're right. I don't condone his actions, but he should be brought home and face trial, not be left without trial in a foreign torture camp.

jbg · April 25, 2009

You're right. I don't condone his actions, but he should be brought home and face trial, not be left without trial in a foreign torture camp.

I respect Canada quite a bit. My respect does not extend to your rather limp justice system where the likes of a Karla Homulka gets out with a slap on the wrist, and Picton likely will as well.

Radsickle · April 25, 2009

Everyone hates him so much... and he's not even really a terrorist? Clearly this is racism!
Clearly he's in prison due to pure bigotry and racism! If his name were ... "Johnson" instead of Walker, he'd be home by now!

-k

Clearly, Kimmy wants to be Ann Coulter.

CANADIEN · April 25, 2009

I respect Canada quite a bit. My respect does not extend to your rather limp justice system where the likes of a Karla Homulka gets out with a slap on the wrist, and Picton likely will as well.

Remember, this is also the justice system where OJ Simpson litterally got away with murder. Oops, wrong country

Radsickle · April 26, 2009

Walker-Lindh was given a federal trial within weeks of being captured. Not a Military trial, a proper, federal trial in his home country.

Canada has never done that for Omar.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Radsickle

eyeball · April 26, 2009

I said that if a 14 year old is too dangerous to be out on the street, then he should absolutely be held in custody.
Since I repeatedly said that I did not support the "without parole" part of the sentence given to that person, your attempt to put those words in my mouth makes you look like something of a douchebag.

Douché. I had that coming.

As for the Khadr family, I think discussion of immigration standards is legitimate (if terribly late) to see if there were some way that these imbeciles could have been screened out before they ever got to our country. Considering the same questions can (and have) been asked in regard to gangsters from Russia and Italy and apply equally to undesirables from European countries, I don't think trying to spin it as racism works.
As for Omar, what do you anticipate happens when he returns to our country? It will be quickly ruled that Canada has no legal means of putting him on trial and no legal means of holding him in custody, so what then? Is he just going to go work at a McDonalds or something?

-k

Or something, I suspect he'd sue for damages and compensation, as he should.

Moonlight Graham · April 26, 2009

I respect Canada quite a bit. My respect does not extend to your rather limp justice system where the likes of a Karla Homulka gets out with a slap on the wrist, and Picton likely will as well.

I don't like it either my friend.

Radsickle · April 26, 2009

What Malarky. Karla's slap on the wrist was partially a plea bargain where she put her accomplice away completely. If anyone here thinks Picton's gonna get off that easily, then they are short a few cards.

"Oh, Canada doesn't punish its criminals."

" Oh, Canada lets terrorists through."

Just think what your half-witted perpetuating of these myths does to Canada's reputation. Is that what you want? To be cynical cause it's the popular attitude? Is that why so many assume Omar's a monster?

jbg · April 26, 2009

Remember, this is also the justice system where OJ Simpson litterally got away with murder. Oops, wrong country

He didn't do it.

Molly · April 26, 2009

I suppose we could be more like our neighbour to the south, the one with the highest documented incarceration rate in the entire world-- three times the rate of the next in line. Compared to that, ANYONES justice system would be considered limp-wristed!

I find that stat stunning.

I do NOT believe that we should aspire to match it.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Molly

Hydraboss · April 26, 2009

No, we should aspire to surpass it. Criminals do not need a friendly hand, they need prison. That's what a justice system is supposed to do...punish criminals.

Unfortunately, Canada has a legal system.

jdobbin · April 26, 2009

No, we should aspire to surpass it. Criminals do not need a friendly hand, they need prison. That's what a justice system is supposed to do...punish criminals.

Some on the right might want to bring back the lynch mob. That was frontier justice.

CANADIEN · April 26, 2009

No, we should aspire to surpass it. Criminals do not need a friendly hand, they need prison. That's what a justice system is supposed to do...punish criminals.
Unfortunately, Canada has a legal system.

A justice system that punishes criminals starts with a legal system, where the accused is deemed innocent until found guilty, is protection against the use of violence in order to obtain evidence, as access to adequate legal representation, and can (directly or through his/her lawyer) know what it is accused of and challenge the evidence presented.