Is God poison?

[M.Dancer]

Oh, I hadn't been keeping up catchme, is the Roman Catholic church part of the Dominionist Conspiracy Theory too? I didn't think they believed in a rapture...

NO, they don't.

That's an irrational belief, unique to the Dominionist/Evanglical/Zionist christians. Pick your name?

Gee whiz, I thought someone who had, what was it, 7 years of catholic teaching would at least know that the rapture was also a part of the catholic doctrine......

[M.Dancer]

What’s the Catholic Position?

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).

http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

[kuzadd]

Oh, I hadn't been keeping up catchme, is the Roman Catholic church part of the Dominionist Conspiracy Theory too? I didn't think they believed in a rapture...

NO, they don't.

That's an irrational belief, unique to the Dominionist/Evanglical/Zionist christians. Pick your name?

Gee whiz, I thought someone who had, what was it, 7 years of catholic teaching would at least know that the rapture was also a part of the catholic doctrine......

actually 9, and the rapture was not part of that.

you post that yourself, catholics believe in Jesus coming back, but, the scenario is diiferent, and it's not called the rapture as you stated in your own post.

The rapture doctrine is not in the bible, that's the "left behind" version.

You know, the commercially and politically viable doctrine.

replete with UN and gay demonization.

The catholic version isn't that specific, that politicized.

You evangelicals miss the politicization of your rapture version, doncha?

how is that?

I see you continue to reduce yourself to hairsplitting.

Have fun with your irrational beliefs, I gave mine up, the brainwashing, indoctrination, lost it's hold on me.

Apparently not on you?

[kuzadd]

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/196/story_19630.html

What do Christians believe about the end of the world?

Nearly all Christians are taught that Jesus Christ will return in glory and reign eternally.

But beliefs differ about how this will happen. Many Catholics, liberal Protestants, and Orthodox Christians in the U.S. do not emphasize the end of the world. Though their denominations have end-times theologies, these Christians would rarely hear preaching on it. These denominations focus on Jesus' words that people cannot "know the day or the hour" (Matthew 25) of the end and tend not to speculate on the details.

that's pretty much the Catholic take, with the focus on Jesus's teachings, not on the end.

versus.............

A majority of evangelical Protestants, however, stress specific ideas about the end of the world. They believe that certain events must happen prior to Jesus' return, and that many of these events are happening now. Drawing from Matthew 24, Paul's epistles, and the Book of Revelation, evangelicals look for signs of the end of the world.

Some evangelical Christians in the U.S. believe in a more specific End Times scenario called the Rapture.

[sharkman]

I'm not so sure about the rapture, but I believe in Armageddon.

[Drea]

You believe that a god is coming to fix everything?

or

do you believe what my mother believed -- that Armageddon is not the end of the world but "a change in the system of things"?

She believed aliens (human aliens -- the Neflim) would return and set us all straight. Her theory is more plausible than an invisble entity finally showing itself.

[sharkman]

Neither, but it explains a lot about what you believe.

[Drea]

Didnt say I believed it -- said it was my mother's theory and that it is more plausible than....

Do you believe that the Nefilim did exist?

[Figleaf]

Is God poison? Hmmmm. I wonder what the Midianites would say ...?

[boodle oodle oo! boodle oodle oo! boodle oodle oo!]

Numbers 25, 31 --

And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation ... And ... Phinehas... rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin ... and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. ...

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, "Vex the Midianites, and smite them: For they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you ... Avenge the children of Israel on the Midianites"...

And Moses spake unto the people, saying, "Arm some of yourselves ... go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD on Midian."

And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded ... and they slew all the males...took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil ... And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt...And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest...

And Moses was wroth with the officers...And...said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel...to commit trespass against the LORD...Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man...But all the women children, that have not known a man...keep alive for yourselves. And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood."

And the booty, ... was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep, And threescore and twelve thousand beeves, And threescore and one thousand asses, And thirty and two thousand ... women that had not known man by lying with him.

[Catchme]

History is full of beginnings and endings of ages, the indoctrinated religious into Armageddon/Rapture fail to see this.

That Evangelical extremists/Dominionists are gleefully believing they are waiting for "others" to be ripped to shreads by Jesus, while they watch on, says much more about their own nature's, than actual facts in the Bible. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible that depicts Jesus as being a hateful judgemental entity, but much to say the opposite.

and Hitchens calls it again!

The discovery of the carcass of Jerry Falwell on the floor of an obscure office in Virginia has almost zero significance, except perhaps for two categories of the species labeled "credulous idiot." The first such category consists of those who expected Falwell (and themselves) to be bodily raptured out of the biosphere and assumed into the heavens, leaving pilotless planes and driverless trucks and taxis to crash with their innocent victims as collateral damage. This group is so stupid and uncultured that it may perhaps be forgiven. It is so far "left behind" that almost its only pleasure is to gloat at the idea of others being abandoned in the same condition.

http://www.slate.com/id/2166337/nav/tap2/

[sharkman]

Didnt say I believed it -- said it was my mother's theory and that it is more plausible than....

Do you believe that the Nefilim did exist?

If you'll notice, I didn't say or infer that you believed it. I said being raised by a mother who believes that explains a lot about you.

[Drea]

Thank you.

She taught me to analyze. To think for myself.

We were JWs when I was a toddler -- she quit the "church" because she questioned the bible and they didn't like her questions.

We theorized alot about life -- the origins of it, the end of it, if anything happens after it. She was an awesome thinker.

[sharkman]

Yeah, she believed aliens were coming to fix everything and you've been compensating for it by being anti god ever since. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Drea]

What part of:

"We theorized alot about life -- the origins of it, the end of it, if anything happens after it"

do you not understand.

Questioning does not equal belief -- quite the opposite in fact.

There is a possiblity that aliens were on earth in ancient times. Where did the Neflim come from? Like I said before there is a much higher probability that life exists elsewhere in the universe than there is of an invisible entity... of course you never know what kind of lifeforce lives out there, could be invisible. LOL

[M.Dancer]

Questioning does not equal belief -- quite the opposite in fact.

Unless of course you are a Unitarian, in which case Questioning is part of the creed

[Drea]

Just went and looked up "Unitarian" on Wikipedia.

It's a cop out.

Ass covering -- just in case there IS a god -- "we'll question it -- sort of".

Pfft.

[M.Dancer]

Just went and looked up "Unitarian" on Wikipedia.

It's a cop out.

Ass covering -- just in case there IS a god -- "we'll question it -- sort of".

Pfft.

Yet, it is a thriving church whose tradition is ancient and its theology although sensational, on solid ground.

Unitarianism is the belief in the single personality of God, in contrast to the doctrine of the Trinity (three persons in one God). It is the philosophy upon which the modern Unitarian movement was based, and, according to its proponents, is the original form of Christianity. Unitarian Christians believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as found in the New Testament and other early Christian writings, and hold him up as an exemplar. Adhering to strict monotheism, they maintain that Jesus was a great man and a prophet of God, perhaps even a supernatural creature, but not God himself. Unitarians believe in the moral authority, but not necessarily the divinity, of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism

[Guest chilipeppers]

G.d isn't poison but the people who think its fun to deride the beliefs of others are poison and would force their secularist cultism on others. Yeah the new religion of the left.

[Drea]

G.d isn't poison but the people who think its fun to deride the beliefs of others are poison and would force their secularist cultism on others. Yeah the new religion of the left.

It's not a "religion"

Can you not fathom someone who does not believe in a "god" of any kind?

It's not a choice of this god or that god or this cult or that cult. It's no god. No religion. No worship. Nada. Zip. Nuthin'.

No one is forcing you to do anything -- you are still free to go to your chosen church to worship the invisible entity. Just leave it out of the public sphere and we'll all get along just fine.

[kuzadd]

Thank you.

She taught me to analyze. To think for myself.

We were JWs when I was a toddler -- she quit the "church" because she questioned the bible and they didn't like her questions.

We theorized alot about life -- the origins of it, the end of it, if anything happens after it. She was an awesome thinker.

Ah, you were very fortunate to have a Mother willing to question authority and the staus quo, leading to free thinking on a number of subjects. Glorious!!

[sharkman]

What part of:

"We theorized alot about life -- the origins of it, the end of it, if anything happens after it"

do you not understand.

Questioning does not equal belief -- quite the opposite in fact.

There is a possiblity that aliens were on earth in ancient times. Where did the Neflim come from? Like I said before there is a much higher probability that life exists elsewhere in the universe than there is of an invisible entity... of course you never know what kind of lifeforce lives out there, could be invisible. LOL

So you don't believe in God, but you believe aliens once walked the earth. This belief, coupled with the one where you said all religious zealots should have their tongues removed and their hands MUTILATED, really puts you in a category far worse (as you define it) than people who believe in God.

[cybercoma]

Still waiting for someone to explain how God is real. I'm waiting for any kind of rational evidence to a God's existence. This needs to be proved so it can be understood why there needs to be great reverence for religion, so much so that children should be allowed to carry daggers into schools. Why should people be allowed to believe whatever they want and have protection from having their beliefs questioned as long as it's under the veil of "religion"?

When the Supreme Court makes decisions based on protecting people's right to have completely irrational and unreasonable beliefs (such as arming their kids), I want those beliefs defended. Religious freedom is not absolute and anyone who believed in raping and torturing children as part of their religious practice would rightfully be imprisoned. In fact, they would rightfully be thought to be nuts, just as believing in Thor, Apollo or Zeus is thought to be insane.

What makes the major religions any better today? They all disagree with one another, so they can't all be right. I was terribly wrong in this thread earlier when I said religions don't change and I'm glad someone on the other side of the fence called me on it because they're right. Religions do change because they are the work of man. Throughout history, religious teachings have changed and morphed to fit the issues du jour.

There is a movement in the United States to have a Christian theocracy put into place. As unlikely as it is that this will happen, there are people out there who believe this is necessary. There are Islamic theocracies all over the world. The unproven teachings of religion affect us every day of our lives.

It's about time someone put their money where their mouth is and prove that God is real, pro ve that the teachings about God are legitimate and provide some answers as to why so much pain and suffering have been born out of blind religious devotion.

As an atheist, I'm saying nothing more than, "show me." Show me because there is so much suffering in this world that has been a direct result of religion. If you don't like that, then religion certainly hasn't done anything to stop devoutly religious people from suffering. In fact, in the parts of the world ruled by religion there is more suffering and oppression than anywhere else.

Perhaps I'm agnostic because I won't say that there is absolutely not a God. I want God's existence to be proven to me. I don't believe the arguments and after examining the facts on my own, I feel it's highly improbable that there is a God. I've chosen to live my life without religion and as though there is no God until someone can show me otherwise. Although technically, some people would call that agnostic, I refuse to use that word because I don't believe there's a 50/50 chance. The bulk of the evidence from conversations like this thread and what I had been taught growing up in a deeply catholic home has not at all convinced me.

And why should you bother convincing me? Because our Supreme Court allows children to go to school armed with daggers, but only the children that believe in the proper God. Women are allowed to be oppressed in independent sharia courts in the UK. People are horribly discriminated against because they find love with someone of the same sex. Abortion doctors are murdered in cold blood. AIDS is spreading across Africa because it's better to get AIDS and die than use a condom and mess with God's will. Kids in Israel and Palestine have bitter hatred for other kids just like them because they wear right star or moon necklace. People are being blown up at bus stops and in cafes, the lucky ones die, others are mutilated or disabled for the rest of their lives because they believe in the wrong prophets.

Real people are really suffering because of unproven beliefs. It's time to face reality, step up to the plate and prove the existence in these Gods and verify the religious teachings that go along with it. Why? Because up until now, it has just cause a tremendous amount of hate, anger, suffering and death all for the sake of "faith". All because everyone has "faith" in something different. Faith, unreasonable belief in something unproven, should be treated with extreme contempt. And I'm begging that someone is able to prove the existence of God and prove me wrong and prove all the false religions wrong, so humanity can stop arguing, fighting and suffering over it.

[Figleaf]

... just as believing in Thor, Apollo or Zeus is thought to be insane.

"You are a disrespectful insulting ass!" *

* http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....opic=8917&st=24

[bush_cheney2004]

.... And I'm begging that someone is able to prove the existence of God and prove me wrong and prove all the false religions wrong, so humanity can stop arguing, fighting and suffering over it.

Make up your mind...are you an atheist or agnostic....there is a difference. Plenty of people have suffered and died at the hands of atheists, so I'm not sure there would be any difference. Humanity will always fight and suffer....carry on.

[Drea]

Cybercoma -- excellent post!

So you don't believe in God, but you believe aliens once walked the earth. This belief, coupled with the one where you said all religious zealots should have their tongues removed and their hands MUTILATED, really puts you in a category far worse (as you define it) than people who believe in God.

Have you never read the bible?

It states that the Neflim lived with mankind before the flood.

read my post again -- it does not say I believe in aliens, only that the possibility of another planet being inhabited is much more plausible than an invisible entity.

Or do you swallow the pap that our little blue orb was created as the ONLY live thing in the universe?

Tthose lights you see in the sky are actually small and are actually hanging on fishing line from our dome put there by the invisible entity. They are not really suns with planets orbiting... nosireee!

LOL

I do not simply believe -- I think, I analyze, I question. Tough noogies if you don't like it -- if it is affront to your antiquated, barbaric beliefs.