Is God poison?

[M.Dancer]

I'm not denying that it is a "religious teaching". I'm just denying you know what you are talking about.

this deserves to be repeated

[cybercoma]

And I'm still waiting for any indication that there's a higher power.

So far there has only been two things brought to the table: a whole lot of people believe in God so it must be true and science doesn't have all the answers, so that means God is the answer to everything we don't know and is therefore real.

Am I missing anything?

I really don't have to point out how illogical these retorts are, do I?

[M.Dancer]

Am I missing anything?

Most of it. Well, except for the Strawman you created.

The plain truth is, if you need material evidence to believe in God, you will never believe.

I'm okay with that.

[Black Dog]

The plain truth is if you need material evidence to believe in God, you will never believe.

In other words, belief in God is as rational as belief in Santa and the Easter Bunny.

[M.Dancer]

The plain truth is if you need material evidence to believe in God, you will never believe.

In other words, belief in God is as rational as belief in Santa and the Easter Bunny.

Well, if you are arrogant and naive, you might want to think so. But very few philosophers like Aristotle to Kirkegard haven given much time to the easter bunny. And I don't think 1900 years of learned, spiritual and academic theological scholarship has been dedicated to Santa.

But go ahead, fill your boots.....be proud .....

[Black Dog]

Well, if you are arrogant and naive, you might want to think so. But very few philosophers like Aristotle to Kirkegard haven given much time to the easter bunny. And I don't think 1900 years of learned, spiritual and academic theological scholarship has been dedicated to Santa.

But go ahead, fill your boots.....be proud .....

Classic plea to authority fallacy.

[cybercoma]

Classic plea to authority fallacy.

That and I don't see people driving reindeer into skyscrapers or making easter egg shaped explosives to kill non-believers and apostates. Nor are there texts devoted to living the way of the tooth fairy or suffer the pain of root canals for all of eternity...

[M.Dancer]

Well, if you are arrogant and naive, you might want to think so. But very few philosophers like Aristotle to Kirkegard haven given much time to the easter bunny. And I don't think 1900 years of learned, spiritual and academic theological scholarship has been dedicated to Santa.

But go ahead, fill your boots.....be proud .....

Classic plea to authority fallacy.

Classic dodge.....fact is you claim falsely that belief isn't rational.....notwithsatnding that rational people rationally study the subject.

You claim glibbly (*plea to glibness fallacy) that it's the same thing as the easter bunny.....but it's only your ignorance of the subject that brings you to that conclusion, like the philistine who walks into MOMA and says he can paint better than what's on the walls...it might sound good to the choir......

[Black Dog]

Classic dodge.....fact is you claim falsely that belief isn't rational.....notwithsatnding that rational people rationally study the subject.

Rational people study the Loch Ness Monster, Sasquatch and poltergeists as well. That doesn't make belief in these phenomenon rational or logical. Though, to the credit of those people, they are least attempting to find evidence to support their beliefs. You can't even be arsed to do that.

You've already conceded there's no evidence of the existence of god. You also claim such evidence is uneccesary. Belief in something in the the face of the total abscence of evidence is irrational.

You claim glibbly (*plea to glibness fallacy) that it's the same thing as the easter bunny.....but it's only your ignorance of the subject that brings you to that conclusion, like the philistine who walks into MOMA and says he can paint better than what's on the walls...it might sound good to the choir......

Before you whine about "glibness", you'd do well to examine your contributions to this thread, such as they are.

[Figleaf]

Classic dodge.....fact is you claim falsely that belief isn't rational...

The claim is not false, it is a fact, demonstrable by a comparison of the definition of the term rational with the characteristics of religious belief. This comparison shows a fundamental incompatibility.

...notwithsatnding that rational people rationally study the subject.

Well, the real subject here is not whether it is studied, but whether (and how) it is believed. No-one rationally believes religion.

...it's only your ignorance of the subject that brings you to that conclusion,...

Well then, it should be possible for you to explain how religious belief complies with the criteria of rationality.

Until and unless you do, your insistence that disagreement with you shows everyone is 'ignorant' grows increasingly ridiculous.

[kuzadd]

I'm not denying that it is a "religious teaching". I'm just denying you know what you are talking about.

this deserves to be repeated

Yes, I am wrong, I am totally unaware that the 'virgin birth' is a religious teaching wether it is in the bible or not is irrelevant, it is a religious teaching.

All the priests as I grew up lied to me, and to all of us at my catholic school, and 80% of Americans as quoted pulled that out of their hat also.

splitting hairs is all you got, right?

The virgin birth is irrational nonsense, along with the rapture, which is not in the bible either, but it is taught and promoted, vigourously, a belief, pure and total nonsense, it's a reward after death sales pitch, no different then the virgins to the martyrs reward after death typical religious rhetoric!

thanks Mikey Weinstein!

[White Doors]

And I'm still waiting for any indication that there's a higher power.

So far there has only been two things brought to the table: a whole lot of people believe in God so it must be true and science doesn't have all the answers, so that means God is the answer to everything we don't know and is therefore real.

Am I missing anything?

I really don't have to point out how illogical these retorts are, do I?

Who here do you think cares wether you believe in a higher power or not?

Some people do and some people don't. I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm not sure myself.

I have an open mind and seek knowledge and education all the time.

It is not irrational to think that science does not have the answers to everything and to also wonder if there is a higher meaning to life.

What I am on here to defend is my right to ponder the universe with wonder without being called an idiot and being called irrational.

To me, your closed minds are irrational.

[White Doors]

In other words, belief in God is as rational as belief in Santa and the Easter Bunny.

yes or intelligent life somewhere else in the universe.. and alternate universe's and 13 dimensions etc etc.

Much of the best theories in theoretical science are irrational and un-proveable.

but they may not be anyless right because of this.

And are not less plausible for lack of it.

[Figleaf]

It is not irrational to think that science does not have the answers to everything and to also wonder if there is a higher meaning to life.

That's true, the key word being 'wonder'.

What I am on here to defend is my right to ponder the universe with wonder without being called an idiot and being called irrational.

You are now making a straw man argument, I think. Or perhaps a fallacy of equivocation.

[White Doors]

You are now making a straw man argument, I think. Or perhaps a fallacy of equivocation.

I don't think that my right to believe what I want interfere's with any atheists right to believe what they want.

What passes for 'haute couture' these days is bigotry. I know it's all in vogue to be an atheist and far left now. So what? Why do some on that spectrum tend to make themselves feel better by belittling others that do not think as they do?

If there beliefs were as correct as they think they are they woudl not care to belittle others that believe differently.

I am an independant thinker and proud of it.

[Figleaf]

I am an independant thinker and proud of it.

Okay. Why do you feel implicated in criticism directed at those who are not?

[Catchme]

All the priests as I grew up lied to me, and to all of us at my catholic school, and 80% of Americans as quoted pulled that out of their hat also.

splitting hairs is all you got, right?

The virgin birth is irrational nonsense, along with the rapture, which is not in the bible either, but it is taught and promoted, vigourously, a belief, pure and total nonsense, it's a reward after death sales pitch, no different then the virgins to the martyrs reward after death typical religious rhetoric!

thanks Mikey Weinstein!

Great points kuzadd, it is a real kicker that children in Catholic schools were lied to, as it is with those being de-educated in the dominionist lies regarding history and all things social. IMV, the children who are having these lies foisted upon them today, will turn away from those who did the lying, just as kids have always done. It is too bad though, that the parents doing the lying today, are the ones who are going to be hated, as opposed to a clergy person who lied in the past.

[sharkman]

Oh, I hadn't been keeping up catchme, is the Roman Catholic church part of the Dominionist Conspiracy Theory too? I didn't think they believed in a rapture...

[cybercoma]

You are now making a straw man argument, I think. Or perhaps a fallacy of equivocation.

I don't think that my right to believe what I want interfere's with any atheists right to believe what they want.

What passes for 'haute couture' these days is bigotry. I know it's all in vogue to be an atheist and far left now. So what? Why do some on that spectrum tend to make themselves feel better by belittling others that do not think as they do?

If there beliefs were as correct as they think they are they woudl not care to belittle others that believe differently.

I am an independant thinker and proud of it.

For the millionth time, atheism is not a belief. Atheism is nothing more than a label given to a person who thinks that YOUR beliefs, or the belief in God is ridiculous because it is most improbable that God exists. It is also important for anyone who ascribes to organized religion to defend, at the very least, the way they support in-group/out-group thinking and oppression (the least of which being women and homosexuals) based on the belief of something that is highly improbable.

You may have a personal God and make up the tenets of your own faith; however, the rest of the world doesn't work that way and it the real world that atheists are concerned with.

Belief in something that is most likely not true, raising children from the time they're born to believe in that very thing, then sitting back and demanding special privileges for those beliefs as people use it for oppression and suffering should require justification!

What very well may be arrogant of me is requesting that anyone here actually support their beliefs; but, when people are being murdered, tortured and are suffering because of these beliefs, I think it's fair that those who hold them be made to justify and rationalize them.

Asking that those who believe in God show evidence to God's existence is not any more bigoted than asking a politician to justify his position on an issue.

If the existence of God can't be proven, then religious teachings become irrelevant. Perhaps then humanity can move away from this dark age of suffering for superstition.

[cybercoma]

Our Supreme Court allows children to bring DAGGERS into the classroom because of religion! For crying out loud, some people have a superstition that they have to arm their children with daggers or God will be angry with them.

This is what regard we hold religion to. If a child carried a dagger for any other reason, they'd be arrested and kicked out of school.

Except if they carry that dagger because of an unproven assumption that there's an invisible man who looks over all of us.

How can anyone think that religion doesn't affect everyone when our supreme court is making it's decisions based on protecting unreasonable, irrational, illogical and completely unfounded claims.

[Figleaf]

Great posts, Cybercoma.

As long as religious impulses lead people to assert that government can't change the laws of marriage, that women should be forced to undergo childbirth, or that tax money should be spent to teach fraudulent 'science' they should expect to have those impulses examined.

[White Doors]

For the millionth time, atheism is not a belief. Atheism is nothing more than a label given to a person who thinks that YOUR beliefs, or the belief in God is ridiculous because it is most improbable that God exists

So you believe that he does not.

You may have a personal God and make up the tenets of your own faith; however, the rest of the world doesn't work that way and it the real world that atheists are concerned with

No matter how many times I hit the ball out of the park you still don't get it do you?

it is not anyone's belief system that is the threat, it is ONLY the belief systems of those that are intolerant of OTHERS that are the threat. Are you THAT think man? My God.

Belief in something that is most likely not true, raising children from the time they're born to believe in that very thing, then sitting back and demanding special privileges for those beliefs as people use it for oppression and suffering should require justification!

I agree, Communism in Cuba is a very bad thing. I believe in the equality of opportunity as well.

Glad we can agree on that.

Asking that those who believe in God show evidence to God's existence is not any more bigoted than asking a politician to justify his position on an issue.

Why would you be asking for evidence of something you believe doesn't exist? That's just silly.

If the existence of God can't be proven, then religious teachings become irrelevant. Perhaps then humanity can move away from this dark age of suffering for superstition.

Irrelevant to you perhaps. Not to others. YOu CANNOT DICTATE TO OTHERS YOUR BELIEFS AND REQUIRE THEM TO BELIEVE THEM. IF YOU INSIST ON DOING SO THEN YOU ARE NO BETTER THEN THE VERY THING YOU HATE.

Weird how some people fit into a hypocritical role so very easily and seemingly, don't appreciate it.

[White Doors]

Our Supreme Court allows children to bring DAGGERS into the classroom because of religion! For crying out loud, some people have a superstition that they have to arm their children with daggers or God will be angry with them.

This is what regard we hold religion to. If a child carried a dagger for any other reason, they'd be arrested and kicked out of school.

Except if they carry that dagger because of an unproven assumption that there's an invisible man who looks over all of us.

How can anyone think that religion doesn't affect everyone when our supreme court is making it's decisions based on protecting unreasonable, irrational, illogical and completely unfounded claims.

So your gripe, again, is really with the charter of rights and freedoms, not religion.

You should really investigate what it is that you are angry about.

That way you can be bigoted but not as ignorant.

Our charter says I have to let you be bigoted you know.

(in case you were wondering)

[kuzadd]

Oh, I hadn't been keeping up catchme, is the Roman Catholic church part of the Dominionist Conspiracy Theory too? I didn't think they believed in a rapture...

NO, they don't.

That's an irrational belief, unique to the Dominionist/Evanglical/Zionist christians. Pick your name?

[stignasty]

That's an irrational belief, unique to the Dominionist/Evanglical/Zionist christians. Pick your name?

Jerry?