Venezuela nationalizes oil industry.

[Big Blue Machine]

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/01/news/inter...dex.htm?cnn=yes

I hope Chavez fails.

[sharkman]

This is simply outrageous. He's robbing these companies in broad daylight, and will no doubt use this new influence in the oil supply to manipulate prices.

[GostHacked]

This is simply outrageous. He's robbing these companies in broad daylight, and will no doubt use this new influence in the oil supply to manipulate prices.

What you mean to say is that, Chavez is keeping the money within Venezuela's borders and not giving any more money to the fat cats who siffon the profits and not give anything back to the country it is taking it from.

If we link Chavez to the next terrorist attack on the mainland US, then that situation can be changed.

[sharkman]

No, I'm saying he's seizing 60% ownership of the oil companies. If I walked up to your house and carried out 60% of your possessions, you wouldn't be happy about it.

On top of this, Chavez has been closing down and shutting up TV stations that have been critical of him. If Bush did this lefties would freak, but since it's Chavez, the left swoons.

[Shakeyhands]

I paid $1.18/l this morning to fill my car, gas jumped up 10c or so last night. Reasons given were issues with a refinery in the US, the oil companies made in the region of $100B profit last year (WAG) Why am I paying so much more because they have issues at their refineries?

Just a side note.

[GostHacked]

No, I'm saying he's seizing 60% ownership of the oil companies. If I walked up to your house and carried out 60% of your possessions, you wouldn't be happy about it.

On top of this, Chavez has been closing down and shutting up TV stations that have been critical of him. If Bush did this lefties would freak, but since it's Chavez, the left swoons.

Let me show you the flaw in your agrument. If you walked up to my house and carries out any possesions you would be shot on site. Venezuela is not your home. The US is (assumption for sake of agrument)

From the article posted

If he can persuade the foreign companies to stay, Venezuela will be on track to develop the planet's largest known oil deposit and possibly surpass Saudi Arabia as the nation with the most reserves. But if he scares them away, the Orinoco River region could end up starved of the investment and know-how needed to transform the Orinoco's tar-lake crude into marketable crude oil.

So this is the cash flow you were talking about? Seems like many of those dollars would just end up in the Big Oil's pockets. Recall that many of the US oil companies have posted record profits consecutively for the past few years. And I bet for sure none of those dollars Big Oil gets directly help you out in any way shape or for aside from gouging you at the gas pump to power your fuel inefficient SUV.

So is Chavez really stealing from the US? Or just taking back what big oil has raped for many previous years??

Again, Venezuela has different rules, not our country. So not much we can do about that. Unless you really want to link Chavez with the next terror attack in the US, then we can Iraq it up and take all that back, and leave nothing for Venezuela. Fuck em, let them starve .. right? Chavez is a theif in his own home.

[Sulaco]

Venezuela pulls control from Big Oil

President Hugo Chavez makes an attempt to reclaim resources by taking operational control of the Orinoco Belt.

What an incredibly slanted headline.

Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez declared that the oil fields had reverted to state control just after midnight.

As if it were written by a Chavez employed propagandist.

[sharkman]

Let me show you the flaw in your agrument. If you walked up to my house and carries out any possesions you would be shot on site. Venezuela is not your home. The US is (assumption for sake of agrument)

From the article posted

If he can persuade the foreign companies to stay, Venezuela will be on track to develop the planet's largest known oil deposit and possibly surpass Saudi Arabia as the nation with the most reserves. But if he scares them away, the Orinoco River region could end up starved of the investment and know-how needed to transform the Orinoco's tar-lake crude into marketable crude oil.

So this is the cash flow you were talking about? Seems like many of those dollars would just end up in the Big Oil's pockets. Recall that many of the US oil companies have posted record profits consecutively for the past few years. And I bet for sure none of those dollars Big Oil gets directly help you out in any way shape or for aside from gouging you at the gas pump to power your fuel inefficient SUV.

So is Chavez really stealing from the US? Or just taking back what big oil has raped for many previous years??

Again, Venezuela has different rules, not our country. So not much we can do about that. Unless you really want to link Chavez with the next terror attack in the US, then we can Iraq it up and take all that back, and leave nothing for Venezuela. Fuck em, let them starve .. right? Chavez is a theif in his own home.

What are you talking about? I never, and continue to not, talk about cash flow. I am, and continue to, talk about property being seized. It's wrong for a country to seize assets of an industry. Gas prices are another issue, which BTW I am against.

Your argument on ignoring Chavez since he's doing it in his own country reminds me, why all the hubub about American carbon dioxide emissions. Hey, it's THEIR country and THEIR customs to drive around in SUVs. Why do we care?

Oh, and if you think I'd be shot dead on sight, then the oil companies have a legitimate argument after all since they are being robbed.

[GostHacked]

Venezuela pulls control from Big Oil

President Hugo Chavez makes an attempt to reclaim resources by taking operational control of the Orinoco Belt.

What an incredibly slanted headline.

Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez declared that the oil fields had reverted to state control just after midnight.

As if it were written by a Chavez employed propagandist.

Wait you are confusing me. The headline is slanted but ... propaganda.... ??

Well from that article you would have read this bit...

Nationalization of the oil industry has been tried in Venezuela before. Venezuela completely shut private companies out of the oil sector between 1975 and 1992 before a series of partial privatizations.

So your 'propaganda' is just a known fact about the country. So what are you trying to pull here?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6610333.stm

Seems like Bolivia is doing the same thing as venezuela. So why are you people not complaining about that country as well??

[GostHacked]

What are you talking about? I never, and continue to not, talk about cash flow. I am, and continue to, talk about property being seized. It's wrong for a country to seize assets of an industry. Gas prices are another issue, which BTW I am against.

And where is this property? In your home? Or someone elses?

My home, your technology, my oil. Play nice and you get some. Anyways, this state take over of the resources can and will benefit Venezuela as a whole. Steal from the rich give to the poor? Maybe he is a modern day Robin Hood.

If there was a few private foreign companies in the US being taken over as state run, I doubt you would be making this much of a fuss.

[stignasty]

From http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/05/01/c...ationalize.html

In Orinoco, Chavez says the state will take a minimum 60 per cent stake in the operations, but he is urging the foreign companies to stay and help develop the fields. They have until June 26 to negotiate the terms, including compensation and reduced stakes.

The companies appear to be taking a tough stand, demanding conditions — and presumably compensation — to convince them that Venezuela will be a good place to do business.

<snip>

If Chavez scares the big oil companies off, the region could be starved of investment capital and the technical know-how needed to work with heavy, tar-like crude oil. Chavez says state firms from China, India and elsewhere can step in, but industry experts doubt they are qualified.

But pulling out would be damaging for the companies, too.

They have already invested more than $17 billion US in their Orinoco projects, which are estimated to have grown in value to $30 billion US. Venezuela has indicated it is inclined to pay the lesser amount for taking over control — with partial payment in oil and, some experts suspect, tax forgiveness.

[B. Max]

So is Chavez really stealing from the US? Or just taking back what big oil has raped for many previous years??

Chavez is stealing the assets that the oil companies built by investing in the country so they would have an oil industry in the first place. Now he's hoping the oil companies will hang around and pay all the bills for maintaining the infrastructure. The share holders won't put up with that.

[sharkman]

I paid $1.18/l this morning to fill my car, gas jumped up 10c or so last night. Reasons given were issues with a refinery in the US, the oil companies made in the region of $100B profit last year (WAG) Why am I paying so much more because they have issues at their refineries?

Just a side note.

You are paying more because the supply side is so tight. Refineries are at maximum capacity, our prices flucuate even when one goes down for maintenance. We haven't had a new refinery built in Canada in about 20 years, yet in that time our population has grown significantly.

[GostHacked]

I paid $1.18/l this morning to fill my car, gas jumped up 10c or so last night. Reasons given were issues with a refinery in the US, the oil companies made in the region of $100B profit last year (WAG) Why am I paying so much more because they have issues at their refineries?

Just a side note.

You are paying more because the supply side is so tight. Refineries are at maximum capacity, our prices flucuate even when one goes down for maintenance. We haven't had a new refinery built in Canada in about 20 years, yet in that time our population has grown significantly.

SOLUTION !!!! Build another refinery?? Since one has not been built in 20 yeqrs, we have been at a peak production rate for 20 years. Making the overall amount of fuel per person much less. Our population and use of natural resouces has definatly increased dramaticly in 20 years.

Oh right, Big Oil does not want to build another refinery. If they would make more money from it, it would have been taken care of already.

[sharkman]

Actually, big oil has a refinery in the works in New Brunswick. Oops! The problem has been those of the tree hugging variety who have so much red tape and enviro crap in the way, it makes it super expensive to build new refineries. But since Ontario had gas stations close down temporarily because of no gas from that refinery fire and train strike, it seems the tree huggers are under seige.

[stignasty]

SOLUTION !!!! Build another refinery?? Since one has not been built in 20 yeqrs, we have been at a peak production rate for 20 years. Making the overall amount of fuel per person much less. Our population and use of natural resouces has definatly increased dramaticly in 20 years.

Oh right, Big Oil does not want to build another refinery. If they would make more money from it, it would have been taken care of already.

I think, if you listen very carefully you can hear the cries of "NIMBY" in the wind...

[speaker]

Pretty interesting eh? Here's the poor oil companies on one side trying to do a good deed for society by doing all this difficult investing on behalf of society, I'm sure they would be happy to open refineries in Canada if we were willing to forego this non-sensical environmentalist desire to have habitable communities. I would go so far to say that The poor oil companies wouldn't have closed down many of the old refineries in Canada if only we had been willing to give them some more subsidies to update them or at least lower the cost of doing business here to the point where it wasn't more favourable to invest in the southern states and places like Venezuela. Places where people are much more sensible and willing to live poor and die early so that the investments might pay off a year or so earlier.

What!!!! the rabid Communist so-called government of Venezuela is trying to pay a reasonable price in order to buy themselves back into their own resources and some status of statehood again? I say Blitzkrieg the buggers just like we did in Afghanistan, Iraq, and all them other practice countries we hit earlier.

Go Team GO!!!!

[B. Max]

Places where people are much more sensible and willing to live poor and die early so that the investments might pay off a year or so earlier.

Go Team GO!!!!

Sounds like a good place to send all those who preach the Gandhi nonsense of wanting to be poor. Yeah, I say hit em hard round em up and head em outa here.

[speaker]

Sounds like a good place to send all those who preach the Gandhi nonsense of wanting to be poor. Yeah, I say hit em hard round em up and head em outa here.

Only trouble is, Gee whiz..... It's hard to tell who wants us to be poor the ones who can't see the heat waves going past their own noses or the ones who can.

[B. Max]

Sounds like a good place to send all those who preach the Gandhi nonsense of wanting to be poor. Yeah, I say hit em hard round em up and head em outa here.

Only trouble is, Gee whiz..... It's hard to tell who wants us to be poor the ones who can't see the heat waves going past their own noses or the ones who can.

No it's not hard to tell at all. It's the sickle swingers.

[sharkman]

Pretty interesting eh? Here's the poor oil companies on one side trying to do a good deed for society by doing all this difficult investing on behalf of society, I'm sure they would be happy to open refineries in Canada if we were willing to forego this non-sensical environmentalist desire to have habitable communities. I would go so far to say that The poor oil companies wouldn't have closed down many of the old refineries in Canada if only we had been willing to give them some more subsidies to update them or at least lower the cost of doing business here to the point where it wasn't more favourable to invest in the southern states and places like Venezuela. Places where people are much more sensible and willing to live poor and die early so that the investments might pay off a year or so earlier.

What!!!! the rabid Communist so-called government of Venezuela is trying to pay a reasonable price in order to buy themselves back into their own resources and some status of statehood again? I say Blitzkrieg the buggers just like we did in Afghanistan, Iraq, and all them other practice countries we hit earlier.

Go Team GO!!!!

The oil industry is doing what all industries do: trying to be profitable. Venezuela opened the doors to them, now they seizing their assets. And that is wrong.

Modern refineries are environmentally safe, certainly in Canada with all the legislation we have. But we now need more capacity. Remember though, corps only ship crude, not gasoline or diesel, so it's not like oil corps are doing all their refining in one place.

The hard left politican Chavez is pulling the carpet out from underneath industry to seize control after they've invested billions. On top of this he's closing down TV and media outlets that disagree with him. If either of this happened in Canada even the left would be freaked.

[geoffrey]

I think, if you listen very carefully you can hear the cries of "NIMBY" in the wind...

I'd sell my backyard to an oil refinery.

[PolyNewbie]

No, I'm saying he's seizing 60% ownership of the oil companies. If I walked up to your house and carried out 60% of your possessions, you wouldn't be happy about it.

According to your logic everyone should be happy when this happens if its a corporation.

When the governments nationalize the oil then the profits are used to maintain government. When the oil is privatized then the wealth gets concentrated into few private hands who will then use it to decide who will govern. In Alberta the province gets 1 % of the wealth from the oil - I wonder how much of a role the oil companies played in getting the current government elected.

I am in favour of privatization, but privatization with competition. Without competition, privatization is just another form of robbery. The oil business has no competition within itself - it is a cartel.

If Standard Oil could truly be broken up then privatization could work.

[bush_cheney2004]

When the governments nationalize the oil then the profits are used to maintain government. When the oil is privatized then the wealth gets concentrated into few private hands who will then use it to decide who will govern. In Alberta the province gets 1 % of the wealth from the oil - I wonder how much of a role the oil companies played in getting the current government elected.

I am in favour of privatization, but privatization with competition. Without competition, privatization is just another form of robbery. The oil business has no competition within itself - it is a cartel.

If Standard Oil could truly be broken up then privatization could work.

If the oil companies didn't invest the capital and technology and take risk that oil would still be unrecovered, which is even less than 1%. We all know what happened when Canada tried to "nationalize" the industry with NEP and Petro-Canada....aka "Pierre Elliott Trudeau Rips Off - Canada".

[sharkman]

Yes, and what Chavez is doing to big oil is even worse than PET I believe. But not many seem to care since oil profits are at record levels. To me it's the principle of the thing. Whether you seize assets of Chevron or makers of the Smart Car, it's still stealing.