Lynch and Tillman

[Guthrie]

No woody, just pointing out that when someone gives you a friendly warning to watch the name calling and you say he's telling the wrong person, that you should take the warning to heart.

except, he's telling the wrong person

Oh so that wasn't you then calling other buffoons and such......

that was me -- but it doesn't make me the right person to be told -- can you guys only look at things one-dimensionally????

[M.Dancer]

Oh so everyone else needs to be told to watch their language except woody.

Immune are you?

[sharkman]

that was me -- but it doesn't make me the right person to be told -- can you guys only look at things one-dimensionally????

Tell you what, I withdraw the comment.

[Guthrie]

Oh so everyone else needs to be told to watch their language except woody.

Immune are you?

Did you realize how false this was prior to posting it? If not, you are mistaken and I never suggested any such thing. If you did realise how false it was, then it is a posted lie.

[sharkman]

Dancer, get a load of this guy, eh? What do you do with a guy like this, I don't like to put people on the ignore list, but what is the point of bothering with such?

[Guthrie]

Dancer, get a load of this guy, eh? What do you do with a guy like this, I don't like to put people on the ignore list, but what is the point of bothering with such?

so, who needs a warning?

[stignasty]

So, what was this thread about anyway?

[M.Dancer]

Dancer, get a load of this guy, eh? What do you do with a guy like this, I don't like to put people on the ignore list, but what is the point of bothering with such?

Give him a petard long enough.....

[Guthrie]

Dancer, get a load of this guy, eh? What do you do with a guy like this, I don't like to put people on the ignore list, but what is the point of bothering with such?

Give him a petard long enough.....

how long should a petard be?

[bush_cheney2004]

What is this thread about? Somebody doesn't like the idea of propaganda, disinformation, half-truths, misdirection, obfuscation, or outright lying because fibbing means you don't get any desert at grandma's house. Superpowers and even lesser gods really don't care.

[M.Dancer]

Dancer, get a load of this guy, eh? What do you do with a guy like this, I don't like to put people on the ignore list, but what is the point of bothering with such?

Give him a petard long enough.....

how long should a petard be?

Depends..how much to you weigh?

[Guthrie]

leaders of superpowers should care a lot when their lies are exposed --- Bush's lies have, despite anyone's claim that countries don't care, cost America dearly. Even the Buschistas are starting to feel the pain of those lies. The question for them is who and how many of them will go to jail for this ill conceived plan of fraud and murder.

[ScottSA]

leaders of superpowers should care a lot when their lies are exposed --- Bush's lies have, despite anyone's claim that countries don't care, cost America dearly. Even the Buschistas are starting to feel the pain of those lies. The question for them is who and how many of them will go to jail for this ill conceived plan of fraud and murder.

The real question is how many people aside from you actually believe they committed fraud and murder. We may have to brace for an influx of insanity.

[buffycat]

The real question is how many people aside from you actually believe they committed fraud and murder. We may have to brace for an influx of insanity.

knock

knock

knock

... Is there anybody in there?

[PolyNewbie]

Bush and Co and not merely liars, they are wreckers.

They intend to ruin the country, thats why they are robbing the taxpayers (over 3.5 trillion now), starting illegal wars, sending the troops into a meat grinder, salting the earth with DU, opening the borders, cutting taxes, spending out of control and starting a police state. The idea is to ruin the USA so that it becomes a third world country and it cannot stop world government even if there is a revolution.

[kuzadd]

leaders of superpowers should care a lot when their lies are exposed --- Bush's lies have, despite anyone's claim that countries don't care, cost America dearly. Even the Buschistas are starting to feel the pain of those lies. The question for them is who and how many of them will go to jail for this ill conceived plan of fraud and murder.

The real question is how many people aside from you actually believe they committed fraud and murder. We may have to brace for an influx of insanity.

at one time the german people, believed as you do, that all was right in their world, and the fuhrer, was a leader, promoting the cause of Germany.

The german people soon found out there fuhrer, commited fraud and murder. As America's fuhrer is.

We will soon brace ourselves, finally, for the coming sanity, and realization, of the fraud and mass genocide of Iraqis, for false reasons, perpetuated by a country, for strategic and resource gain.

The insanity unfortunately has been prevalent for to long, along with mass hysteria induced by excessive propaganda, not simply limited to the jessica lynch/pat tillman side show, but inc, and largely to blame the 9/11 fear and hysteria show.

""Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist distatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

HERMANN GOERING, HITLER'S

works even in America, beautifully I may add, beautifully.

[sharkman]

at one time the german people, believed as you do, that all was right in their world, and the fuhrer, was a leader, promoting the cause of Germany.

The german people soon found out there fuhrer, commited fraud and murder. As America's fuhrer is.

We will soon brace ourselves, finally, for the coming sanity, and realization, of the fraud and mass genocide of Iraqis, for false reasons, perpetuated by a country, for strategic and resource gain.

The insanity unfortunately has been prevalent for to long, along with mass hysteria induced by excessive propaganda, not simply limited to the jessica lynch/pat tillman side show, but inc, and largely to blame the 9/11 fear and hysteria show.

What we will have to brace ourselves for is the coming insanity of the Democrats, who will stop at nothing to grab the reins of power. Bush acted with the best intelligence they had at the time, and several other main countries' intell agreed with the U.S. These are simple facts that keep getting ignored by the Bush Derangement crowd.

But the Dems, who were quite bitter about the impeachment hearings of Clinton, want revenge on the Republicans. Add to that the 2000 election, and then the 2004 election, and you have some enraged liberals out there who will do anything to take down Bush. Hell hath no fury like a sore loser.

Edit: I hope you don't read crap from Goering and Hitler, they are lunatics.

[Figleaf]

What we will have to brace ourselves for is the coming insanity of the Democrats, who will stop at nothing to grab the reins of power.

Is there a secret Democrat army being trained somewhere for a coup?

Bush acted with the best intelligence they had at the time,

The best made-to-order intelligence he could commission at the time, you mean.

Add to that the 2000 election, and then the 2004 election, and you have some enraged liberals out there who will do anything to take down Bush.

The stolen election of 2000 in particular should enrage anyone who cares about democracy in America.

[sharkman]

What we will have to brace ourselves for is the coming insanity of the Democrats, who will stop at nothing to grab the reins of power.

Is there a secret Democrat army being trained somewhere for a coup?

Bush acted with the best intelligence they had at the time,

The best made-to-order intelligence he could commission at the time, you mean.

Add to that the 2000 election, and then the 2004 election, and you have some enraged liberals out there who will do anything to take down Bush.

The stolen election of 2000 in particular should enrage anyone who cares about democracy in America.

Good grief! The Dems are attempting to impeach Cheney. Although they might have better luck with the army idea.

Your next statement exposes a poorly thought out strategy by liberals and the Dems they love: If the intell was tailor made, they should get their money back. Obviously it wasn't, or otherwise it would have been far more damning to Saddam.

Ah, you must be one of the bitter libs I was refering to. I suppose the Supreme Court, obviously liberal since they have repeatedly refused to stop legal abortions, is in on your conspiracy to have stolen the election, and given it to Dubya? It's these breaks with reality that made it easy to beat the liberals again in 2004. Look out 2008!

[kimmy]

Look, there's a lot of crap that goes on when a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine dies in the line of duty, whether it was jumping on a live grenade or just taking a dump in the latrine. Were Lynch and Tillman exploited for propaganda purposes? Most definitely..it's a time honored tradition that goes back to at least WW2.

Honesty in War is an oxymoron.

True enough.

But they didn't just hide the truth, they trumpeted big fake lies from the mountaintops.

too bad it took main stream media so many years to catch up.

Tillman/ Lynch, have been BS ops from the get go.

It has been known for a long time that Tillman was killed in a friendly fire incident, and that the US Army's official story was a lie. We've had prior threads on the subject. The news here is not that the stories told about Tillman and Lynch were lies, but rather the inquiry into how far up the chain of command the lies went.

-k

[Figleaf]

... If the intell was tailor made, they should get their money back. Obviously it wasn't, or otherwise it would have been far more damning to Saddam.

Obviously there were constraints on the flexibility of the real intel to be warped into Bushintel.

But we know that SOME of the intel was deliberately fabricated. We can't know how much or how little, so the whole pool is tainted.

I suppose the Supreme Court, obviously liberal since they have repeatedly refused to stop legal abortions,

America is a liberal democracy, even some rightwingers are 'liberal' in that sense. Anyway, the USSC recently partially overturned Roe v. Wade.

is in on your conspiracy to have stolen the election, and given it to Dubya?

Not exactly. I think there was election gerrymandering and structural tampering in Florida, driven by its own politics, well before Dubya was ever nominated. This work did help Dubya in 2000, and on top of that, government officials in Florida at the time of the election worked agressively, possibly criminally, in favor of the Republican ticket.

If Gore had won Tennessee none of that would have mattered. When the sh!t did hit the fan in Florida, both parties really did nothing unexpected -- they fought to win.

Did the Bush campaign have a pre-existing deal or conspiracy in place with the Court? Not very plausible. Did they cut a deal after the Florida results became pivotal. Possibly, but not necessarily. We do know, however, the USSC split exactly on party lines, and the decision the majority rendered:

-used court power to appoint a president of the same party as each of the majority judges;

-halted and forbade determination of voter preferences in Florida;

-used the same reason to both intervene and not intervene in the Florida election process;

-was not signed by the judges (first time in history); and

-elevated the less popular candidate.

Here is an interesting pov from one of America's most famous prosecutors:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010205/bugliosi

[bush_cheney2004]

It has been known for a long time that Tillman was killed in a friendly fire incident, and that the US Army's official story was a lie. We've had prior threads on the subject. The news here is not that the stories told about Tillman and Lynch were lies, but rather the inquiry into how far up the chain of command the lies went.

I don't think this is news either....company grade officers or NCOs cannot typically replace the "truth" with official propaganda absent support and/or direction from higher echelons. And it is certainly not exclusive to the military, yet for some reason they are held to a higher standard than the governments and people they serve.

It has been said that in war, the "truth" must be protected by a perimeter of lies.

[kuzadd]

at one time the german people, believed as you do, that all was right in their world, and the fuhrer, was a leader, promoting the cause of Germany.

The german people soon found out there fuhrer, commited fraud and murder. As America's fuhrer is.

We will soon brace ourselves, finally, for the coming sanity, and realization, of the fraud and mass genocide of Iraqis, for false reasons, perpetuated by a country, for strategic and resource gain.

The insanity unfortunately has been prevalent for to long, along with mass hysteria induced by excessive propaganda, not simply limited to the jessica lynch/pat tillman side show, but inc, and largely to blame the 9/11 fear and hysteria show.

What we will have to brace ourselves for is the coming insanity of the Democrats, who will stop at nothing to grab the reins of power. Bush acted with the best intelligence they had at the time, and several other main countries' intell agreed with the U.S. These are simple facts that keep getting ignored by the Bush Derangement crowd.

But the Dems, who were quite bitter about the impeachment hearings of Clinton, want revenge on the Republicans. Add to that the 2000 election, and then the 2004 election, and you have some enraged liberals out there who will do anything to take down Bush. Hell hath no fury like a sore loser.

Edit: I hope you don't read crap from Goering and Hitler, they are lunatics.

Please read my Goering quote, then tell me who else said virtually the same thing??

It went like this.....

""Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists."

Cause in doublespeak Bush admin style there are only two types of people, right?

""Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists."

so your either with us or against us.

The simplified language of propaganda.

Which appeals to those who don't think, just react and jump to conclusions

Then judge who exactly is the lunatic?

[kuzadd]

Kimmy:

It has been known for a long time that Tillman was killed in a friendly fire incident, and that the US Army's official story was a lie. We've had prior threads on the subject. The news here is not that the stories told about Tillman and Lynch were lies, but rather the inquiry into how far up the chain of command the lies went.

-k

my reference to" to bad it took main stream media so long", was because mainstream trumpetted the BS lies and propaganda for so long, when a great , great many others, had long, long realized Lynch/Tillman, Iraq intelligence ,were all BS, propaganda operation, or psy-op. Now some years later the media finally reports on it.

as you are aware.

The mainstream mass media overall has failed to serve the public, but served the Bush administration wonderfully.

[Guthrie]

...

It has been known for a long time that Tillman was killed in a friendly fire incident, and that the US Army's official story was a lie. We've had prior threads on the subject. The news here is not that the stories told about Tillman and Lynch were lies, but rather the inquiry into how far up the chain of command the lies went.

-k

The lies about Tillman came a long way down that chain - certainly, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, knew the true story, even as they were handing out their own version of it. Bush used Tillman very carefully and didn't speak of Tillman's last mission nor his death - carefully so as to not be caught in the lie - he knew, his generals on the ground had warned him but he pushed the envelope of the fraud as far as he could --- no wonder Pat Tillman's brother is so upset at these clowns

...

Kevin Tillman was far more critical, as was his mother, Mary Tillman. He read an abridged version of the Silver Star award his brother was awarded posthumously: "Above the din of battle, Cpl. Tillman was heard issuing fire commands to take the fight to an enemy on the dominating high ground. Always leading from the front, Cpl. Tillman aggressively maneuvered his team against the enemy position on a steep slope. As a result of Cpl. Tillman's effort and heroic action, the trail element of the platoon was able to maneuver through the ambush position of relative safety without suffering a single casualty." Tillman said that the story "inspired countless Americans, as intended. There was one small problem with the narrative, however: It was utter fiction."

Tillman today speculated that his brother's myth was created to change the headlines.

"It shifted the focus from the grotesque torture at Abu Ghraib … to a great American who died a hero's death," he said.

He charged the Pentagon with falsifying information to achieve those ends — "writing up a field hospital report, stating that Pat was 'transferred to an intensive care unit for continued CPR' after most of his head had been taken off by multiple 5.56 rounds … stating that a giant rectangle bruise covering his chest that sits exactly where the armor plate that protects you from bullets as being, quote 'consistent with paddle marks' from a defibrillator.' These are not misleading comments," he charged. "Falsifying soldier witness statements for a Silver Star is not a misstep," Tillman said. "These are intentional falsehoods that meet the legal definition for fraud.

...

A week after Tillman died — and a month before his family learned the truth — an urgent P4 military memo was sent to three top generals, warning them it was "highly possible … Tillman was killed by friendly fire."

Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal sent the memo after hearing the president might mention Tillman in a speech, "which might cause public embarrassment if the circumstances of Cpl. Tillman's death become public."

Noting a Pentagon e-mail from April 28 about White House speech writer John Currin seeking information about Tillman for the president's speech at the White House Correspondents' Dinner a few days later, Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., suggested that it was more than just a coincidence that when "the president spoke at the Correspondents' Dinner, he was careful in his wording.

"[President Bush] praised Pat Tillman's courage but carefully avoided describing how he was killed," said Cummings. "It seems possible that the P4 memo was a direct response to the White House's inquiry. And if that is true, it means that the White House knew the true facts about Cpl. Tillman's death before the memorial service and weeks before the Tillman family was told."

Kevin Tillman added, "It's a bit disingenuous to think that the administration did not know about what was going on, something so politically sensitive."

The White House today said it could find no evidence to suggest that the president was informed..."

ABC