How to stop the next Campus Shooting

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:However, that does not change the fact that a society with more guns will have more incidents what happened at VTech.

Thats is not a fact, that is your imagination.

[Riverwind]

Riverwind:However, that does not change the fact that a society with more guns will have more incidents what happened at VTech.

Thats is not a fact, that is your imagination.

So why is the US the world leader in school shootings perpertrated by bored middle class men/boys?

[ScottSA]

You should read the article I posted. It may not change your mind, but it is one of the better renditions of an alternate viewpoint I've seen in a long time.

I did read it. Its comparisons to between Cho and Guevara are simply bizarre. I don't think there are many people that are buying 'Cho is a victim' line of thinking. Nor does the article address fact that misfits with easy access deadly weapons kill more people than misfits without access to those weapons.

I think you need to read it carefully then. If all you took from it is the Che/Cho analogy, you missed the intent bigtime. Or don't read it, I don't care.

[ScottSA]

A social misfit with knife might kill one or two people before being stopped. A social misfit with a semi-automatic pistol can kill 32. Easy access to guns makes these incidents much more deadly. Easy access to guns makes accident gun deaths much more likely (how many people accidently die from a baseball bat?).

Easy access to bombs and bomb making equipment can up the score to 100s, and certainly does in those places in which bombs are used. Easy access to cars can at least equal the bodycount of guns. Take guns away and that's where these freaks will gravitate to. The problem is not the object used, it is the individual using it.

[bush_cheney2004]

... However, that does not change the fact that a society with more guns will have more incidents what happened at VTech. It is pointness to deny that there is a connection even if you think the deaths of those 32 innocent people is a necessary sacrifice.

It is no more a "sacrifice" than accepting 40,000 motor vehicle deaths per year in the US. Firearms epitomize the essence of American culture and history for both individualism and government (i.e. power). It is not obsession....it is instinct.

[cybercoma]

There really is no debate. You're not going to stop it. Someone intent on killing is going to kill anyway.

Columbine 15 killed (including attackers) and 24 wounded. Two attackers. Shotguns, a 9mm rifle and a Tec 9 machine gun were used.

VT 33 killed (including attacker) and 29 wounded. One person. Handguns were used.

The weapons used by the Columbine killers should've been more effective and considering there was 2 of them, you'd think they would've killed more people. The lone killer at Virginia Tech used handguns and murdered more people. So, it's reasonable to believe that the type of weapon doesn't determine the number of people killed.

It's more likely that someone who is intent on killing is going to kill regardless of the weapon he/she gets his/her hands on.

[noahbody]

There really is no debate. You're not going to stop it. Someone intent on killing is going to kill anyway.

Psychologically, I'd expect some of the wackos expect to/need to have the last word. I'd bring the killer's body back to campus so everyone could piss on him.

[kuzadd]

Riverwind:However, that does not change the fact that a society with more guns will have more incidents what happened at VTech.

Thats is not a fact, that is your imagination.

So why is the US the world leader in school shootings perpertrated by bored middle class men/boys?

riverwind, you are again trying to simplify a complex issue, by blaming guns.

For instance, it was clear this young man had mental health issues, which perhaps, should have been addressed, or more adequatelely addressed.

Then the school security was way off the mark. WAY off the mark.

if this young man had mental health issues, should he have had access to a gun?

laws pertaining to that??

what your trying to claim is no guns , no gun deaths, or less guns , less gun deaths.

Drugs are illegal, do we have no drugs?? (heroin, cocaine etc.,)

[newbie]

So, it's reasonable to believe that the type of weapon doesn't determine the number of people killed.

It's more likely that someone who is intent on killing is going to kill regardless of the weapon he/she gets his/her hands on.

Don't think Cho coulda got 32 with a knife.

[cybercoma]

So, it's reasonable to believe that the type of weapon doesn't determine the number of people killed.

It's more likely that someone who is intent on killing is going to kill regardless of the weapon he/she gets his/her hands on.

Don't think Cho coulda got 32 with a knife.

Don't think making guns illegal would mean he wouldn't have been able to get one.

[Rue]

Buffy:

"if I were to be minding a store late at night all alone I would most certainly want a nice loaded firearm by my side, along with some pepper spray and a baseball bat."

If you were my daughter I would prefer you did not have a gun. Why? As much as I would worry about your safety I would be more worried you would not know how to use the gun in the midst of a crisis and probably would freeze up or have it taken away from you and used to kill you. I prefer you used pepper spray.

I have been in situations of terror. Trust me you can't just grab the gun and use it. It takes a very special human to be able to use a gun properly in the heat of the moment. You have to be trained to resist all your natural impulses and hesitations. A normal average human can not shoot someone no matter how heated the situation if they can see the other person's eyes.

This is precisely why these idiots that use guns are doped up or shoot from a distance.

The real killers can walk up to you and kill you because they feel nothing.

Trust me you do not want to rely on a gun for your safety.

If you were my daughter I would want you to learn martial arts.

I answer you differently then I would a man, because whenb it comes to the safety of women its a different issue and I appreciate its different and why you want protection.

As for all the other gun control arguements, to me it gets down to one thing, I want whoever has a gun to be professiuonally trained and not be an amateur.

I don't trust any human with a gun who isn't properly trained to control themselves and their emotions and be able to use a gun with no emotion.

Once you see people die up close you have no desire to use a gun. That is why I hate them. I admire people trained in the martial arts who can avoid killing people but subdue them. To me that is far superior.

[buffycat]

Buffy:

"if I were to be minding a store late at night all alone I would most certainly want a nice loaded firearm by my side, along with some pepper spray and a baseball bat."

If you were my daughter I would prefer you did not have a gun. Why? As much as I would worry about your safety I would be more worried you would not know how to use the gun in the midst of a crisis and probably would freeze up or have it taken away from you and used to kill you. I prefer you used pepper spray.

I have been in situations of terror. Trust me you can't just grab the gun and use it. It takes a very special human to be able to use a gun properly in the heat of the moment. You have to be trained to resist all your natural impulses and hesitations. A normal average human can not shoot someone no matter how heated the situation if they can see the other person's eyes.

This is precisely why these idiots that use guns are doped up or shoot from a distance.

The real killers can walk up to you and kill you because they feel nothing.

Trust me you do not want to rely on a gun for your safety.

If you were my daughter I would want you to learn martial arts.

I answer you differently then I would a man, because whenb it comes to the safety of women its a different issue and I appreciate its different and why you want protection.

As for all the other gun control arguements, to me it gets down to one thing, I want whoever has a gun to be professiuonally trained and not be an amateur.

I don't trust any human with a gun who isn't properly trained to control themselves and their emotions and be able to use a gun with no emotion.

Once you see people die up close you have no desire to use a gun. That is why I hate them. I admire people trained in the martial arts who can avoid killing people but subdue them. To me that is far superior.

Rue,

Thank you for such a thoughtful response - I too would prefer to use the pepper spray! (Actually, I would attempt to stear clear of dangerous situations period.

As for martial arts, hee, I have already got my black belt and am currently working on my second dan. I agree that being defensive is the first and foremost anyone can do.

I also agree with you that anyone who does have a firearm should be required to train and retrain after time.

Again, thanks for the very nice post.

Buffy

[BZBee]

Don't think Cho coulda got 32 with a knife.

I agree.

Someone who is intent on doing damage with a GUN will do so regardless of whether the victim is also packing; the perpetrator may count on the victim being slower than he is or that the victim won't have the nerve to pull the trigger (many won't although it has been determined that we are all capable of killing if the life of a loved one or our own life is threatened). Besides, police officers get shot at all the time (even the ones in North America where they carry guns). However, it is doubtful that someone with a knife as a weapon will be as bold with an intended victim who is carrying a gun.

Problem is, it’s not possible to tell who the bad guys are until they commit a crime so therefore not possible to keep guns out of their hands. After all, not everyone who uses a gun to commit a crime has been, or will be, declared clinically unbalanced.

[PolyNewbie]

Gun Control Lawyer to start carrying gun more often after threats

Ha Ha Ha. Gotta love these anti gun neoliberal types.

[B. Max]

Just in case you are thinking about going and shooting up Utah.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...4228.shtml?s=us

[ScottSA]

Just in case you are thinking about going and shooting up Utah.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...4228.shtml?s=us

"Utah is easily one of the most conservative states, and the Legislature is dominated by Republicans, many of whom have a libertarian streak."

Betcha there are less insane people there too.

[PolyNewbie]

Switzerland & The Gun

Lots & lots of guns - automatic rifles too - Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

[Riverwind]

Lots & lots of guns - automatic rifles too - Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

Ratio of the number of guns to the number of people is actually very small. The ratio is about the same as Canada. The US has twice as many guns per person. IOW - it is misleading to claim that there are 'a lot of guns' in Switzerland. It appears the Swiss choose not to own guns even though their laws are less restrictive.

[GostHacked]

Lots & lots of guns - automatic rifles too - Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

Ratio of the number of guns to the number of people is actually very small. The ratio is about the same as Canada. The US has twice as many guns per person. IOW - it is misleading to claim that there are 'a lot of guns' in Switzerland. It appears the Swiss choose not to own guns even though their laws are less restrictive.

Different mentality when it comes to gun culture. This accounts for the legaly registered guns. I would say there are far more unregistered firearms in the US than in Switzerland. It is how a society approaches gun ownership. If one does not feel the need to get a gun, eventhough the resitrictions are more lax, don't you think that it would be a safer society when people just don't feel the need to carry/possess firearms? This is an interesting thing to consider. Canada has many firearms as well, and if you look at it per capita, I would say the US is still ahead of the game when it comes to gun related deaths and crime.

If everyone in the room had a gun. And you are the only one thinking of letting go a few rounds, chances are that you would be put down after the first couple shots. If no one is armed, then no one can defend themselves. So if you are properly trained in using a gun, then this tragedy would not have been so great.

If the criminal has this in the back of his head 'oh shit, everyone has a gun right?? .. hmmm better rethink this one' so like someone pointed out, they resort to more drastic measures. So getting rid of guns, or making them more accessable nets the same result in the end.

Loose loose situation here it seems.

[Guthrie]

Gun Control Lawyer to start carrying gun more often after threats

Ha Ha Ha. Gotta love these anti gun neoliberal types.

The guy is an ex-cop. No, he is not an, 'anti gun neoliberal,' but he does support effective gun control -- the threat that he be shot was specific - he didn't buy a gun, he carries his police weapon and wears his police body armor

this is not a story that favors gun nuts --- get over it

...

Williams, a former police officer who has a gun permit, said he also felt threatened by a gun-rights rally Tuesday during which two participants held up a banner calling for Cruz to be "hung from the tree of liberty." The message was protesting legislation sponsored by Cruz to require gun registration and a $10-a-gun annual fee.

...

[Leafless]

Disarming is NOT the way to go! This is not a right/left issue - no matter how the partisans on both sides make it seem to be.

I think the catalyst in all these shootings are ...women.

How about starting off with separate universities for the babes.

Think about it!!!

[ScottSA]

Disarming is NOT the way to go! This is not a right/left issue - no matter how the partisans on both sides make it seem to be.

I think the catalyst in all these shootings are ...women.

How about starting off with separate universities for the babes.

Think about it!!!

I thought about it. Bad idea. How can professors seduce women if they are in seperate universities?

It's obvious that the common demoninator is classrooms. Abolish classrooms and there can be no more classroom shootings. Duh.

[Leafless]

Disarming is NOT the way to go! This is not a right/left issue - no matter how the partisans on both sides make it seem to be.

I think the catalyst in all these shootings are ...women.

How about starting off with separate universities for the babes.

Think about it!!!

I thought about it. Bad idea. How can professors seduce women if they are in seperate universities?

It's obvious that the common demoninator is classrooms. Abolish classrooms and there can be no more classroom shootings. Duh.

What I am getting at is the effect of problematic male/female student relationships as being in many cases the catalyst for many of these secondary/university shootings.

Just the simple presence of females progressing towards a higher standard of education could prompt envious, controlling males to fly off the handle, pertaining to hatred and jealousy against women.

I have always thought it as being a good idea keeping education separate from problematic male/female student relationships which can only be accomplished by keeping both sexes apart.

[Drea]

That Leafless, is simply not possible nor is it realistic.

Even in Iran when young folks get to university the classes are coed. Throughought school the sexes are kept apart.

Perhaps men simply need to learn how to control their impluses.

[Leafless]

That Leafless, is simply not possible nor is it realistic.

Perhaps men simply need to learn how to control their impluses.

Good shot Drea, but it takes two to tango and besides hormone levels at the ages we are talking about, are not exactly dormant.

It would be foolish to deny there is a bias held against women by certain males and women more than males are interested in romanticism and promote competition in this area that in turn promotes an ongoing popularity contest that in many cases turns ugly and is the root cause to settle issues violently.

I don't know if it would be unrealistic to have separate schools for the male/ female population of the country and if you ask me, mixed schools to-day, relating to all the associated problems, is one of the main reasons relating to the decay of morals and civilized behavior.

Anyways I am simply replying, 'how to stop the next campus shooting'.