I-man - what do you think about his remarks?

[bush_cheney2004]

Because as we all know, the right wing from the earliest days were always fighting against racism.

See "abolition" and the "birth of the Republican Party". Early enough for ya?

So are you saying cutting spending results in people getting out of poverty. For some reason I highly doubt that.

Yes, as this is exactly what happened in the USA after welfare reform and a booming economy:

As it was, the critics predicted that the reform would increase poverty. When he was in the Clinton administration, Primus commissioned an Urban Institute study that projected that the welfare-reform bill would push the families of 1 million children into poverty. For this reason, Ted Kennedy called the bill "legislative child abuse." Daniel Patrick Moynihan called reform "the most brutal act of social policy since Reconstruction" and predicted that there would be "a third of a million children in the streets."

Instead, poverty rates have fallen. The Census reports that the black child-poverty rate has dropped a third, from 43.8 percent in the mid '90s to 33.1 percent in 1999. That's the lowest rate in history. During the same period, the percentage of children of single mothers living in poverty has fallen from 44 to 35.7-also an all-time low. The Department of Agriculture reports that the number of children who are chronically hungry has dropped by nearly half.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._53/ai_77674950

[Canadian Blue]

See "abolition" and the "birth of the Republican Party". Early enough for ya?

See segregation...

Yes, as this is exactly what happened in the USA after welfare reform and a booming economy:

According to the National Review, wow that sure is an unbiased source of information. I wonder if I can find an artice from rabble to counter it. I also noticed in the article he said people on welfare went up in the 80's, who was the president during the 80's.

I've found an article to counter yours.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060911/truthdig

But if crushing welfare is such a boon to poor children, the effects should be snowballing the further we get from the bad old days, right? Well, no: The same census data Clinton cites for 2000 also records a 12% increase in childhood poverty over the four subsequent years.

[bush_cheney2004]

But if crushing welfare is such a boon to poor children, the effects should be snowballing the further we get from the bad old days, right? Well, no: The same census data Clinton cites for 2000 also records a 12% increase in childhood poverty over the four subsequent years.

Logical fallacy.....welfare was changed to encourage employment, with state programs picking up the slack and enforcement. The key factor in poverty reduction is economic growth and jobs, as it has always been. Hence tax breaks....even by JFK.

Poverty rates in Canada are also nothing to brag about. I'm sure there are a few "racial" groups for you to target for poverty reduction back home, eh?

[ScottSA]

Because as we all know, the right wing from the earliest days were always fighting against racism.

Apparently its racist to acknowledge that poverty exists more in certain communities for obvious reasons. First of all, we've seen the effects of budget cuts to education, welfare, and social services. It hasn't done a thing for poorer communities, but it does help people in the upper class.

How idiotic. Whatever did people do before the state arrived to take care of their every problem? What's racist is to pretend that Blacks are incapable of standing on their own two feet and instead need cash given to them to make it. That attitude is racist, just like arguing that Indians need perpetual welfare.

[Canadian Blue]

Logical fallacy.....welfare was changed to encourage employment, with state programs picking up the slack and enforcement. The key factor in poverty reduction is economic growth and jobs, as it has always been. Hence tax breaks....even by JFK.

Well it has put people to work, no doubt about that.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._16/ai_62111902

How idiotic. Whatever did people do before the state arrived to take care of their every problem? What's racist is to pretend that Blacks are incapable of standing on their own two feet and instead need cash given to them to make it. That attitude is racist, just like arguing that Indians need perpetual welfare.

I think the poor ones either worked 7 days a week for minimal pay, or had to turn to crime to make some money to live on. While the people who weren't able to provide health care or food to their children simply died off.

Ever hear of child labour?

[bush_cheney2004]

I think the poor ones either worked 7 days a week for minimal pay, or had to turn to crime to make some money to live on. While the people who weren't able to provide health care or food to their children simply died off.

Ever hear of child labour?

Being poor does not always equate to "poverty" or crime, except in liberal elitist minds. Sometimes it just means being poor.

[Canadian Blue]

So there is no link between poverty and crime, is that what your saying?

Being poor just results in fewer options in life, so a poor kid might not be afforded the same oppurtunities for education and health care, as kids who are richer.

[bush_cheney2004]

So there is no link between poverty and crime, is that what your saying?

Being poor just results in fewer options in life, so a poor kid might not be afforded the same oppurtunities for education and health care, as kids who are richer.

You have answered your own question. Plenty of middle class and rich people commit "crime". I grew up poor and "black" (but not a victim) in Philadelphia and have enjoyed tremendous opportunities...this obsession with health care must be a Canadian thing, as it was never an issue for us. Mama paid in cash for services rendered, just like the sign said. Very simple.

[ft.niagara]

So there is no link between poverty and crime, is that what your saying?

Being poor just results in fewer options in life, so a poor kid might not be afforded the same oppurtunities for education and health care, as kids who are richer.

You have answered your own question. Plenty of middle class and rich people commit "crime". I grew up poor and "black" (but not a victim) in Philadelphia and have enjoyed tremendous opportunities...this obsession with health care must be a Canadian thing, as it was never an issue for us. Mama paid in cash for services rendered, just like the sign said. Very simple.

Canadian Blue appears to be speechless. There seems to be a culture of being a victim, which is different than a culture of being poor. All my grandparents were immigrants, they were one time poor. The Asians have come here poor, but there are comparatively few asians commiting crime.

[scribblet]

I would say that the majority of poor people are not criminals.

Regarding I-man, Obama has gone up a notch or two in my books after reading this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070414/ap_on_...he2008_trail_38

FLORENCE, S.C. - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) on Friday questioned the way some rappers talk about women in song....

They are "degrading their sisters. That doesn't inspire me," Obama said of some hip-hop artists when a man in a crowd of about 1,000 questioned him. The Illinois senator was responding to a question of what inspired him, and said God and civil rights activists.

-snip-

"I do think we've seen a coarsening of the culture," Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press after the town hall meeting. As a constitutional lawyer, Obama said he was a free speech advocate.

-snip-

In Iowa, Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee said Imus' departure could result in exits for other talk show hosts, such as Rosie O'Donnell and Bill Maher.....

[Argus]

Christ, Black culture has turned women into hos, men into niggahs, and the totality into a ghetto culture that proudly refuses to come out of the sewer lest it be mistaken for whitey, all the while cheered on by Blacks activist whores of the worst kind. Talk about a lost race.

I think blacks have always lived in poverty, if you haven't noticed the schools in Baltimore aren't really that great. Its pretty easy for some upper middle class white guy to talk with disdain about poor blacks, especially since he has never walked in their shoes. I'd imagine people living in poverty wouldn't be granted as many options as your typical white teenager from suburbia.

Blacks have, as a group, always had a higher precentage of people living in poverty, but that doesn't mean black areas were always dens of unwed motherhood, crime and sloth. If you went to Black communities like Harlem fifty or a hundred years ago you'd find clean, well-dressed black families in neat, if poor houses, with a hard-working father and a god-fearing mother, and no more crime than in low rent white areas.

[DogOnPorch]

Don Imus had been in this sort of trouble before. Over his one time news reader, Contessa Brewer I believe... Imus and his crew grilled her daily. Sexual inuendo and such. Bimbo comments. It finally came to a head...

Full story...

--------------------------------------------------------------------

My goal is to goad people into saying something that ruins their life.

---Don Imus

[ft.niagara]

Regarding I-man, Obama has gone up a notch or two in my books after reading this.

In Iowa, Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee said Imus' departure could result in exits for other talk show hosts, such as Rosie O'Donnell and Bill Maher.....

Getting rid of Imus is a double edged sword for the Blacks. Now that they have done so, they risk white crys of racism for not going after the rappers and the like that they have ignored in the past, and probably into the future. After all, it was they who Imus thought made words like Hos and Kinky mainstream.

As far as Obama, what is he to say, and why did he not say something before. For Imus, one of his disappointments was Rep Ford from Tenn did not come out in support, because Imus came out in support for him when it counted for him. Obama is similar to Ford in many ways.

Maher is almost bullet proof on HBO cable, but ODonnel might be vulnerable.

[Guthrie]

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson both have come out condemning rap lyrics which demean women, so this:

"... not going after the rappers and the like that they have ignored in the past..." - is out of place

[RB]

Women on the whole are still largely demean by males but in has become so embedded into the culture that it is acceptable

If you hang around the males, and listen to their conversation - it's a culture within the male system to make off- hand comments demeaning women (e.g. this pussy would not work), referring to a computer drive that won't function - regular stuff, from a regular male.

The black rap male has taken the comments to the nth level and made it vulgar and extremely insensitive. Despite the blacks argument that rap is "art" - you can understand how we can supported this sort of music culture. It's simply moving along to the next echelon.

I can see it, the insults are usually to keep everyone checked and in their place. A demise for women, of course.

I don't usually hear women demeading or alluding to their trickery and insulting their own body parts.

[Guthrie]

Women on the whole are still largely demean by males but in has become so embedded into the culture that it is acceptable

If you hang around the males, and listen to their conversation - it's a culture within the male system to make off- hand comments demeaning women (e.g. this pussy would not work), referring to a computer drive that won't function - regular stuff, from a regular male.

The black rap male has taken the comments to the nth level and made it vulgar and extremely insensitive. Despite the blacks argument that rap is "art" - you can understand how we can supported this sort of music culture. It's simply moving along to the next echelon.

I can see it, the insults are usually to keep everyone checked and in their place. A demise for women, of course.

I don't usually hear women demeading or alluding to their trickery and insulting their own body parts.

I've heard lots of women demeaning other women's, "body parts" -- but for men, it doesn't surprise me that a majority of subjects have a sexual slang attached - I mean, we men have this testosterone issue to deal with

[southerncomfort]

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson both have come out condemning rap lyrics which demean women, so this:

"... not going after the rappers and the like that they have ignored in the past..." - is out of place

They might give a mild reprimand but they don't go after them with the same zeal as they do Imus and others like him. Heck, if they really wanted to condemn the worst of the rap crap, they would demand that the producers and record company owners resign and or quit producing that stuff. Better still demand that the rappers quit and or be fired for demeaning their own race and all. Doubt that'll ever happen, besides Sharpton has a pretty good rap sheet himself .

[Guthrie]

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson both have come out condemning rap lyrics which demean women, so this:

"... not going after the rappers and the like that they have ignored in the past..." - is out of place

They might give a mild reprimand but they don't go after them with the same zeal as they do Imus and others like him. Heck, if they really wanted to condemn the worst of the rap crap, they would demand that the producers and record company owners resign and or quit producing that stuff. Better still demand that the rappers quit and or be fired for demeaning their own race and all. Doubt that'll ever happen, besides Sharpton has a pretty good rap sheet himself .

It isn't whether or not Sharpton et al go after someone with, 'zeal phasers,' set on kill - it only matters what the media does with the effort. Rapper sins go on Entertainment Tonight, shock jock sins go on 60 Minutes -- Al Sharpton is not in charge of programming for any network.

[ft.niagara]

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson both have come out condemning rap lyrics which demean women, so this:

"... not going after the rappers and the like that they have ignored in the past..." - is out of place

I don't think so. They have never threatened boycotts against businesses supporting these rappers. No protest marches. It is simple black racism until proven otherwise, ie like condemnation.

[Black Dog]

Let's come out and admit that Black culture has turned Black women into whores. Black cultural values are in the toilet in terms of sex, unwed motherhood, father responsibility, crime, drugs and education. Imus wouldn't invent a term like "nappy headed hoes", he simply took it from popular Black culture, where Black women are generally called far, far worse.

And this has what bearing on college hoops, exactly?

[Guthrie]

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson both have come out condemning rap lyrics which demean women, so this:

"... not going after the rappers and the like that they have ignored in the past..." - is out of place

I don't think so. They have never threatened boycotts against businesses supporting these rappers. No protest marches. It is simple black racism until proven otherwise, ie like condemnation.

Yes they have threatened boycotts against record companies -- it isn't their fault that you don't know what their doing nor is it anybody here's duty to prove anything about them - and your willingness to judge without knowing the facts is just the absolute definition of, 'prejudice.' NO, it isn't them, it's you.

[Guthrie]

from 2005

In an attempt to deter violence in the hip-hop culture, the Rev. Al Sharpton proposed last Thursday that a ban be placed on music by artists whose lyrics depict violent acts.

...

The civil rights activist took his fight to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) last week and pressured officials to impose a ban denying airplay for 90 days to artists involved in violent confrontations. Also, Sharpton is asking that radio stations "that encourage a pattern of this, including allowing employees to do on-the-air inciting of violence" be fined and reviewed by the FCC.

...

Sharpton disagrees and said compared to other issues recently discussed amongst the FCC, action should be taken against violent hip-hop lyrics.

"The whole body politic of America addressed Janet Jackson's breast, and it didn't hurt anybody," he said of last year's SuperBowl halftime incident.

"Here you have actual bloodshed, and people are not even responding at federally regulated radio stations...Black kids are expected to shoot each other, and nobody cares? Well I care, and I think somebody should do something about it," he said.

Link

[JerrySeinfeld]

My comment:

The real racism seems to stem from Rev. Al Sharpton whose double standard on "ho-talk" seems to judge people's remarks based upon the racial origins of the people uttering them.

[DogOnPorch]

Bill Cosby had some harsh words for the black community over the usage of words and certain attitudes held a few years back...

It is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us, and it keeps a person frozen in their seat. It keeps you frozen in your hole that you are sitting in to point up and say, 'That's the reason why I am here.' We need to stop this," Cosby said in an address before Jesse Jackson's 33rd Annual Rainbow/PUSH Coalition conference in Chicago.

The 66-year-old Cosby struck an introspective tone. "There is a time, ladies and gentlemen, when we have to turn the mirror around," he told the crowd of 500 people at the Sheraton hotel.

Full story...

-------------------------------------------------------

I need a car that does 200mph to get me to work on time...

---Bill Cosby

[Guthrie]

My comment:

The real racism seems to stem from Rev. Al Sharpton whose double standard on "ho-talk" seems to judge people's remarks based upon the racial origins of the people uttering them.

just dealt with that - it simply is a mistaken view.

Al Sharpton has never made any division among people using offensive language