Tolerance or insanity?

[DogOnPorch]

DogOnPorch your one of a kind, first you talk about the great success of bombing civilians during World War 2 from 1942-1943, and now you're talking about how somebody is "Pro-Western Civilization" if they exhibit a fear of people who have viewpoints on the left side of the political spectrum. Most people can recognize ScottSA's bigotry from a mile away, the sad part is that some people think its all in defense of "Western Civilization."

Most people, eh? Care to provide a source for this magical insight? I can see that you don't like him...

As for the Combined Bomber Offensive being an effective form of flattening Germany...I stand by my viewpoint that it was just as responsible as the Soviet Union's great land victories at taking out the German war machine. Quit qualifying my statements, too...I never said any crap about 1942-1943. I was refering to the entire Combined US/UK/Canada Bomber Offensive from start to finish including the high and low points. You're just being the obtuse foil that you always are.

Well, if these funerals are done in a remote location, then I see no problem. If the population in the area, really has no offence to it, then no problem.

What if the local native English population does take offence? This is England (Newcastle), afterall...not Mumbai. Should they let folks burn bodies in the open anyways? Or will some people scream intolerance if there are objections? Should the UK draw more lines in the sand re: political and cultural iconoclasm? Enough being sorry about the "evils" of Pax Britanica? So many questions...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Is this your pen?

---Robert DeNiro: Casino

[Canadian Blue]

Most people, eh? Care to provide a source for this magical insight? I can see that you don't like him...

Most people, someone who goes on about fags, and spews a bunch of stereotypes is probably a bigot.

You're just being the obtuse foil that you always are.

You only made the correction after I corrected you. Either way, its always good to see you standing up for your homophobic and xenophobic buddy.

[B. Max]

You only made the correction after I corrected you. Either way, its always good to see you standing up for your homophobic and xenophobic buddy.

We are suppose to tolerate everything today. Even intolerance.

[ft.niagara]

someone who goes on about fags, and spews a bunch of stereotypes is probably a bigot.

homophobic and xenophobic buddy.

Lots of the Blue flowing in his veins tonight. The life of a drunk....obnoxious, beligerant, know it all. No real thinking, just big talk.

[M.Dancer]

Doesn't this guy sound like a poster we had on here before.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showuser=3251

Don't know where you keep all them straws you keep grasping for....but I bet you have a high fibre diet...

[ScottSA]

Well, if these funerals are done in a remote location, then I see no problem. If the population in the area, really has no offence to it, then no problem. I doubt they would be able to make the open air burnings as big as the ones in India. Different country, different social/economy/religion *for the most part)/environment. If Britian allows it, and if others than Hindu's are oppossed to it, then you can see some backlash for the Hindu community.

If people are worried about a open air burn funeral in terms of pollution and breathing in that stuff. Take a walk down a busy street in the day time. How much pollution you breath in on a daily basis would put this issue way in the back burner. Vehicles, industry, even your home and your garbage you produce has a bigger effect on the environment than some people wanting to burn their dead relatives. Never mind that gas leak from my car in the driveway, nothing to see here. Sure things would have to be done different in Britian. Sanctioned places for it. Proper disposal of the body if the cremation was not effective in completely destroying the body. I am sure there will be compromised between the government and the Hindus.

So just some common sense needs to be applied to the funeral rites, some rules to follow to make all parties involved happy. I can bet you this forum that if they get the chance in Britian to do this, they will not be even close to the scale they do it in India.

I have an idea. How about saying: "No. This is Britain, not India."

For those who are concerned about "bigotry", aside from my personal stalker who is a kneejerk thinker at best, why must "tolerance" be so one sided? When you move into a new house, do you require the neighbours to change their habits to accomodate you? Do you expect them to? Why is it that we assume most others require us to change?

Our present frame of mind in the west; our fixation on multiculturalism; is going to destroy our society. People come here to escape the horrendous mess their social system made of their own homeland, yet we are all too willing to change our social system to their's. It's not by accident that we live in affluence here. It's not an accident of natural resources; there are more in Africa and Asian than in Europe. It's not an accident of better guns; the guns came from a spirit of invention born in the enlightenment and unique to the west. It certainly isn't explained away by Jared Diamond's 'guns germs and steel'. In one sense it's simple, and in another infinitely complex: through a number of circumstances the west began to view the world in a certain way. Once it adopted this way of thinking (what post-modern and standpoint feminists call "male" rationalism) it had no choice but to advance, and to organize society in such a way as to facilitate such an advance. It is long past time we recognized that we have built the best society the world has ever seen, in spite of its imperfections, and stop allowing it to be torn down in the name of "tolerance". If there is an accident, it is the accident of race...the folks who built our society happen to be white, and my stalker is quite wrong when he accuses me of "racism", although if I saw that as germaine to this question I would certainly talk about it too.

I am concerned about multiracial immigration, but for quite another reason: the rate of floodgate immigration that is going on now is effectively Balkanizing the west...and all the propaganda in the world about "vibrancy" and "richness" isn't changing it a whit. The first rule any salesman learns is that people like people who are like them. That's a fact, and it's as much a fact today as it was in ancient Britannia or Han China, and there is very little we can do to change that fact. If multiracial immigration were slowed to a trickle, there would be little problem, but at its present rate I cringe for the future. But that's an entirely different topic.

[M.Dancer]

Dead people don't worry me.

[GostHacked]

For those who are concerned about "bigotry", aside from my personal stalker who is a kneejerk thinker at best, why must "tolerance" be so one sided? When you move into a new house, do you require the neighbours to change their habits to accomodate you? Do you expect them to? Why is it that we assume most others require us to change?

Multiculturalism will not kill society. Ignorance and bigotry can. Poverty and unemployment kills a society. If multiculturalism kills society, then why not just segragate everything again? Have we made no social advancements in the last few centuries? How does the nice elderly Lebanese woman next door destroy our society?

Also do you realize that Canada and the US had depended on immigration from all over the world in order to continue to grow. How has it killed our society? I don't see it dead or even dying.

t is long past time we recognized that we have built the best society the world has ever seen, in spite of its imperfections, and stop allowing it to be torn down in the name of "tolerance". If there is an accident, it is the accident of race...the folks who built our society happen to be white, and my stalker is quite wrong when he accuses me of "racism", although if I saw that as germaine to this question I would certainly talk about it too.

And this society is great because of immigration and multiculurasmsmsms... Even other white people have different customs and traditions. And some would offend the skin off you. But you have not complained about that. Even your statement of 'whites built this society', they destroyed another society in the process(native american indians) or are you denying that? There was no chance for multiculturism. White man came and took everything. And now you want to deny what everyone else wants when you cannot even take the high ground because the society that was built by the white man destroyed another. There was no tolerance at all.

[ScottSA]

For those who are concerned about "bigotry", aside from my personal stalker who is a kneejerk thinker at best, why must "tolerance" be so one sided? When you move into a new house, do you require the neighbours to change their habits to accomodate you? Do you expect them to? Why is it that we assume most others require us to change?

Multiculturalism will not kill society. Ignorance and bigotry can. Poverty and unemployment kills a society. If multiculturalism kills society, then why not just segragate everything again? Have we made no social advancements in the last few centuries? How does the nice elderly Lebanese woman next door destroy our society?

Also do you realize that Canada and the US had depended on immigration from all over the world in order to continue to grow. How has it killed our society? I don't see it dead or even dying.

t is long past time we recognized that we have built the best society the world has ever seen, in spite of its imperfections, and stop allowing it to be torn down in the name of "tolerance". If there is an accident, it is the accident of race...the folks who built our society happen to be white, and my stalker is quite wrong when he accuses me of "racism", although if I saw that as germaine to this question I would certainly talk about it too.

And this society is great because of immigration and multiculurasmsmsms... Even other white people have different customs and traditions. And some would offend the skin off you. But you have not complained about that. Even your statement of 'whites built this society', they destroyed another society in the process(native american indians) or are you denying that? There was no chance for multiculturism. White man came and took everything. And now you want to deny what everyone else wants when you cannot even take the high ground because the society that was built by the white man destroyed another. There was no tolerance at all.

I can't really do anything but present this post as a superlative example of the mind-numbing naivetee that is leading us down the garden path. It's a product of headinthesand oblivionism.

[M.Dancer]

Your meglomaniacal obsession with immigration is your humourously fatal flaw.

What's interesting about the chicken littles of immigration is how often they have been wrong. And that given the immigration petri dish is North America, and given that the experiment is only 200 or so years old, to be that wrong so many times is truly a remarable feat.

Suffice to say when immigration critics complained about the Ukrainians not being able to assimilate, the Ukrainians did. When the critics complained about the Irish and their abysmal moral lassitude....when they complained about the Italians and their prodigeous birthrates, hygiene....when they complained about the Jews entering a Christian society, the Poles, the Armenians, Greeks.....

Allowing people a sense of dignity by preserving the custom of the last rites, providing that the general welfare of the community is safeguarded...is such a trivial, picayune thing......

.....but, why break with a tradition of error?

[ScottSA]

Your meglomaniacal obsession with immigration is your humourously fatal flaw. [snip]

We've had this discussion before. You were wrong then and wrong now. We agreed to wait and see. That was 1998 as I recall...how are we doing so far?

[M.Dancer]

Your meglomaniacal obsession with immigration is your humourously fatal flaw. [snip]

We've had this discussion before. You were wrong then and wrong now. We agreed to wait and see. That was 1998 as I recall...how are we doing so far?

Pretty good I think...

[Guthrie]

I choose tolerance. Interesting to observe who chooses insanity, instead.

[DogOnPorch]

I choose tolerance. Interesting to observe who chooses insanity, instead.

Immigration is great. However, I think multiculturalism and duel citizenships should be tossed out the window. While cultural iconoclasm looks quaint at first, in 100 years it could well be a different story.

You all have good points. Tolerance is a truely great quality. But it must work both ways. Does it? It's too easy to just whip out the racist card. But some of these questions indeed need to be asked and answered.

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From the great Atlantic ocean to the wide Pacific shore

The green old flowing mountains to the south down by the moor

She's mighty tall and handsome she's know quite well by all

Regular combination on the Wabash Cannonball

---J. A. Roff, William Kindt

[M.Dancer]

You all have good points. Tolerance is a truely great quality. But it must work both ways. Does it? It's to easy to just whip out the racist card. But some of these questions indeed need to be asked and answered.

Actually, if multiculturalism is to work, and I think it does, at least in North America, tollernce definately has to work both way and a few otherways to boot.

Not only must the dominate culture be tollerant of the new culture and vice versa, but new arrivals have to be tollerant of other new arrivals.

Now I know where Macfeeble...Scottsa is coming from...we have had this discussion ongoing for te last 8 years...he keeps predicting the end of western civilization and I keep seeing more 2nd generation punjabis setting up privare practice.....and I say to me self, how will civilization coillapse if these fine young Candians keep propping it up?

Now since 9.11, his fears are along the lines of the ultra conservative muslims who are not intrested in bi lateral multicultralism, not interested in western society or assimilating in any regard.

I feel sorry for them, their grandchildren will probably hoist a beer in their memory one day....

[ScottSA]

Now I know where Macfeeble...Scottsa is coming from...we have had this discussion ongoing for te last 8 years...he keeps predicting the end of western civilization and I keep seeing more 2nd generation punjabis setting up privare practice.....and I say to me self, how will civilization coillapse if these fine young Candians keep propping it up?

Now since 9.11, his fears are along the lines of the ultra conservative muslims who are not intrested in bi lateral multicultralism, not interested in western society or assimilating in any regard.

I feel sorry for them, their grandchildren will probably hoist a beer in their memory one day....

Careful or figgy will report you for causing profound damage to my psyche by calling me names. If the "ultraconservative Muslims", who happen to be most of them, get their way, there won't be much hoisting of beers unless it's followed by the hoisting of the drinker by his neck. You have noticed Paris lately, right? And London before that? Muslims have the spotlight at the moment, but it's just a matter of time before the Balkanization that is taking place throughout the west steps into the limelight. Clearly a number of Hindus are not interested in tolerating the current laws either, underscored by the fact that "Asian gangs" are responsible for most of the inner city violence going on in Canada today. My point is that if we are to keep this country on an even keel, and maintain the social system that made it great, we cannot keep the immigration floodgates open. It won't work otherwise. It's hardly a leap of imagination to suggest that if we give the country a complete population transfusion, we'll lose all semblence of our society.

[M.Dancer]

Clearly a number of Hindus are not interested in tolerating the current laws either, underscored by the fact that "Asian gangs" are responsible for most of the inner city violence going on in Canada today.

That is a non sequitor....

1) Asian gangs are NOT reponsible for most of the inner city violence in Canada.

2) Asian gangs do not always mean Hindu.

[ScottSA]

1) Asian gangs are NOT reponsible for most of the inner city violence in Canada.

I suspect that as far as open violence goes, not including domestics, it is true. But I don't have the stats. Perhaps you do?

2) Asian gangs do not always mean Hindu.

Do tell. I was making two seperate points, but perhaps I could have been clearer.

[M.Dancer]

1) Asian gangs are NOT reponsible for most of the inner city violence in Canada.

I suspect that as far as open violence goes, not including domestics, it is true. But I don't have the stats. Perhaps you do?

2) Asian gangs do not always mean Hindu.

Do tell. I was making two seperate points, but perhaps I could have been clearer.

I don't have stats, but in Toronto, when there are shootings, maybe 1 out of 10 are asian.

Now, per capita Toronto is one of the least violent cities in Canada...regina, saskatoon and sudbury are 3 times more dangerous......but not necessarily the magnet for immigrants.....

[Figleaf]

For those who are concerned about "bigotry", aside from my personal stalker who is a kneejerk thinker at best, why must "tolerance" be so one sided? When you move into a new house, do you require the neighbours to change their habits to accomodate you? Do you expect them to? Why is it that we assume most others require us to change?

Multiculturalism will not kill society. Ignorance and bigotry can. Poverty and unemployment kills a society. If multiculturalism kills society, then why not just segragate everything again? Have we made no social advancements in the last few centuries? How does the nice elderly Lebanese woman next door destroy our society?

Also do you realize that Canada and the US had depended on immigration from all over the world in order to continue to grow. How has it killed our society? I don't see it dead or even dying.

t is long past time we recognized that we have built the best society the world has ever seen, in spite of its imperfections, and stop allowing it to be torn down in the name of "tolerance". If there is an accident, it is the accident of race...the folks who built our society happen to be white, and my stalker is quite wrong when he accuses me of "racism", although if I saw that as germaine to this question I would certainly talk about it too.

And this society is great because of immigration and multiculurasmsmsms... Even other white people have different customs and traditions. And some would offend the skin off you. But you have not complained about that. Even your statement of 'whites built this society', they destroyed another society in the process(native american indians) or are you denying that? There was no chance for multiculturism. White man came and took everything. And now you want to deny what everyone else wants when you cannot even take the high ground because the society that was built by the white man destroyed another. There was no tolerance at all.

I can't really do anything but present this post as a superlative example of the mind-numbing naivetee that is leading us down the garden path. It's a product of headinthesand oblivionism.[emphasis added]

Then don't bother.

[DogOnPorch]

My point is that if we are to keep this country on an even keel, and maintain the social system that made it great, we cannot keep the immigration floodgates open. It won't work otherwise. It's hardly a leap of imagination to suggest that if we give the country a complete population transfusion, we'll lose all semblence of our society.

I tend to agree. Immigration should be a very controlled intake. Not hundreds of thousands per year. We let different cultures in without any idea how they will interact not only with Anglo-French-Native culture but each other. Multiculturalism is a cop-out in that while it serves the new immigrant very well, it really does little for the host culture except water it down with political correctness least Mickey Mouse offend someone. What will we look like after 100 years of that?

If it's babies/new taxpayers/friendly voters that "they" want, "they" should stop destroying the middle-class and give some real incentives for Canadians to make 'em. Our kids pop out in 9 months, too. I think the vast majority of those "seeking a better life" should be giving it a good go in their own countries. If that's racist...so painted.

Actually, if multiculturalism is to work, and I think it does, at least in North America, tollernce definately has to work both way and a few otherways to boot.

Not only must the dominate culture be tollerant of the new culture and vice versa, but new arrivals have to be tollerant of other new arrivals.

I agree...but I don't think it's happening. Also, we're kind of naive in that we tend to think all the new arrivals are going to be hard-working, upstanding Canadians. Most, I feel, could give a rat's ass about Canadian culture...unless it suited them. Some are also going to be hard-working criminals...and if there's enough of them...voila...you've imported a real problem. The Mara Salvatrucha in the US and now Canada would be a great example of this...and a great example of how NOT to handle the situation. As for multiculturalism working in Mexico...does it? The US is more of a 'melting pot'...with its own huge problems with illegal aliens.

You have noticed Paris lately, right? And London before that?

Heck, London? Anywhere in the UK. I used to live in Blackburn for a year back in the early 1970s...I saw a recent documentary on the place and I didn't even recognize it at first...the whole Jack Straw affair. That's Blackburn??? Wow...

Now I know where Macfeeble...Scottsa is coming from...we have had this discussion ongoing for te last 8 years...he keeps predicting the end of western civilization and I keep seeing more 2nd generation punjabis setting up privare practice.....and I say to me self, how will civilization coillapse if these fine young Candians keep propping it up?

Eight years?? lol...and you still haven't solved the problem for us all?

:D

I kid...I kid.....I keeeeeed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have a human rights interest. Then there is the immigration problem. The human-rights violations have caused people to take to boats and flood not only the United States, but other countries in the region, creating great instability.

---Warren Christopher

[Canadian Blue]

For those who are concerned about "bigotry", aside from my personal stalker who is a kneejerk thinker at best, why must "tolerance" be so one sided? When you move into a new house, do you require the neighbours to change their habits to accomodate you? Do you expect them to? Why is it that we assume most others require us to change?

Our present frame of mind in the west; our fixation on multiculturalism; is going to destroy our society. People come here to escape the horrendous mess their social system made of their own homeland, yet we are all too willing to change our social system to their's. It's not by accident that we live in affluence here. It's not an accident of natural resources; there are more in Africa and Asian than in Europe. It's not an accident of better guns; the guns came from a spirit of invention born in the enlightenment and unique to the west. It certainly isn't explained away by Jared Diamond's 'guns germs and steel'. In one sense it's simple, and in another infinitely complex: through a number of circumstances the west began to view the world in a certain way. Once it adopted this way of thinking (what post-modern and standpoint feminists call "male" rationalism) it had no choice but to advance, and to organize society in such a way as to facilitate such an advance. It is long past time we recognized that we have built the best society the world has ever seen, in spite of its imperfections, and stop allowing it to be torn down in the name of "tolerance". If there is an accident, it is the accident of race...the folks who built our society happen to be white, and my stalker is quite wrong when he accuses me of "racism", although if I saw that as germaine to this question I would certainly talk about it too.

I am concerned about multiracial immigration, but for quite another reason: the rate of floodgate immigration that is going on now is effectively Balkanizing the west...and all the propaganda in the world about "vibrancy" and "richness" isn't changing it a whit. The first rule any salesman learns is that people like people who are like them. That's a fact, and it's as much a fact today as it was in ancient Britannia or Han China, and there is very little we can do to change that fact. If multiracial immigration were slowed to a trickle, there would be little problem, but at its present rate I cringe for the future. But that's an entirely different topic.

Get over yourself, nobody is stalking you.

Secondly, I could have sworn reading this entire tripe in Pat Buchanan's book The Death of the West. We have always had people from different ethnicities settle in this country, and as far as I can tell we are still doing pretty good. I haven't been forced to change any of my habits to accomodate a minority group, I'm not sure what your experience has been, but I have yet to encounter minorities shoving their values down my throat.

[ScottSA]

Get over yourself, nobody is stalking you.

Stop not stalking me then. Whatever it is you're doing or not doing, stop.

[M.Dancer]

Now since 9.11, his fears are along the lines of the ultra conservative muslims who are not intrested in bi lateral multicultralism, not interested in western society or assimilating in any regard.

I feel sorry for them, their grandchildren will probably hoist a beer in their memory one day....

If the "ultraconservative Muslims", who happen to be most of them, get their way, there won't be much hoisting of beers unless it's followed by the hoisting of the drinker by his neck.

Here is where your fears collide with reality. Can you show that the majority of muslims are ultra conservative?

[Figleaf]

Whatever it is you're doing or not doing, stop.