Harper's Flights...

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/harper_jet_expenses

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Conservatives are paying just a small fraction of the cost of partisan and personal junkets aboard the military's fleet of Challenger executive jets.

And documents show that the Prime Ministers' Office changed the formula for calculating flight costs after Harper's first partisan journey - a move that slashed subsequent Conservative party repayments.

Neither the original formula nor the reduced charges came anywhere close to what Harper himself in Opposition had called "$11,000 per hour Challenger jet flights" by the previous Liberal government.

The invoices, obtained by The Canadian Press under the Access to Information Act, show a total of three Challenger flights by Harper in 2006 for which the military billed the Prime Minister's Office.

The first flight was Feb. 10, 2006, shortly after the minority Conservatives won power. Harper's return trip to Halifax from Ottawa for the retirement party of Nova Scotia premier John Hamm was deemed a partisan exercise, and the Conservative party paid the freight.

The invoice from National Defence, which lists Harper and six staff on board, calculated the trip cost "3.1 flying hours X $2,139.00/hour."

The total bill: $6,630.90.

Isn't this what Harper hammered the Liberals on?

[Remiel]

From the same article:

Linking Challenger reimbursements to the actual cost of operating the jet is extremely difficult.

The military's 2005-06 Cost Factors Manual for aircraft, also obtained under the Access to Information Act, lists the full cost of operating the administrative Challenger used by the prime minister as $9,124 per hour.

A utility version of the same jet, used by the military, costs $11,541 an hour to operate.

Given that most of these are fixed costs that accrue whether the jet is flying or not, establishing a billable hourly flight rate is problematic.

So, can we say here that, once again, Harper has been proven to be either completely lying, or twisting the truth? He fingered Liberals for the entire cost of the operation of the jet, even though the military figures show that a hefty portion of those are fixed costs, and yet does not figure those fixed costs into what he must reimburse?

Also, there is this:

Curiously, a flight by Harper to Charlottetown, P.E.I., and Moncton on April 28-29 for a provincial Conservative party fundraiser was not reimbursed as a partisan excursion.

Buckler said that trip included a "roundtable meeting with Block Parents" and was therefore considered government business.

That kind of fluid partisan-government mix was a frequent target of Conservative complaints when Liberal prime minister Paul Martin was in power.

The Liberals are certainly not all milk and cookies, but anyone that can't see Harper is just as bad is a blind fool.

[hiti]

Harper has no shame, no decency.

[Shakeyhands]

This is pretty telling... Where does the hypocrisy end?

Documents show that the Prime Minister's Office changed the formula for calculating flight costs after Harper's first partisan journey – a move that slashed subsequent Conservative party repayments.

Neither the original formula nor the reduced charges came close to what Harper himself in opposition had called "$11,000-per-hour Challenger jet flights" by the Liberals.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/186974

[Argus]

Harper has no shame, no decency.

If that were true that would make him a Liberal party supporter, right?

[Argus]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/harper_jet_expenses

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Conservatives are paying just a small fraction of the cost of partisan and personal junkets aboard the military's fleet of Challenger executive jets.

Isn't this what Harper hammered the Liberals on?

No one but drooling idiots begrudge the prime minister flying on official aircraft, even if it is on personal business. For security reasons, the RCMP don't want the PM flying commercial. And I rather doubt the costs would be much better anyway when you include the half dozen bodyguards, the aides and secretaries and whatnots.

The Liberals, of course, took this to extremes, for they had, and still have, an enormous sense of entitlement. Not only did Martin, for example, use the government aircraft to fly to his father in law's palatial cottage in Quebec now and then, he spent tens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money to fix up the small, private airport where the plane could land. In fact, that airport got more federal funding than Alberta got for its airports.

Not that this bothered you, of course.

Chretien and Martin used the aircraft to fly all over the world on holidays and golfing trips and rarely, if ever reimbursed the taxpayer. Chretien, in fact, was notorious in insisting that a second challenger make the trips, trailing the first, so that if, for whatever reason, the first aircraft was delayed, or had mechanical difficulties, or whatever, he could use the "spare".

Not that this bothered you either.

Likewise, Liberal cabinet ministers used government aircraft for personal business all the time and never reimbursed the taxpayer.

And this didn't bother you either.

[scribblet]

Likewise, Liberal cabinet ministers used government aircraft for personal business all the time and never reimbursed the taxpayer.

And this didn't bother you either.

Talk about not having any shame LOL It apparantly only bothers them when the CPC is alleged to be doing something they don't like.

[Shakeyhands]

you two are missing the point as usual... you can't cry about something like a whiny bitch one minute, and then turn around and do the exact same thing, nevermind changing the mathematical formula for justification and reimbursment.....

[Keepitsimple]

I don't see what the real point is. Harper originally complained that Chretien was using the plane for personal reasons and not paying for it. Now Harper is using it for personal and he is paying for it. He was likely given an estimate for the cost when he was hounding Chretien and of course, it was a "worst case " scenario. But the crux of his original argument was that if you use the plane for personal business, you should pay something for it.....and he has. Talk about nit-picking.

[gc1765]

Now Harper is using it for personal and he is paying for it.

No, he isn't. Look at the aritcle again: "Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Conservatives are paying just a small fraction of the cost of partisan and personal junkets aboard the military's fleet of Challenger executive jets."

[gc1765]

No one but drooling idiots begrudge the prime minister flying on official aircraft, even if it is on personal business.

Are you calling Steven Harper a drooling idiot?....cause he was the one opposed to the Liberals using the aircraft for personal use.

[Martin Chriton]

Commercial airfares were also used to calculate Challenger costs when Harper, his son, Ben, and five staff flew to Toronto on Oct. 4 for a Toronto Maple Leafs game.

Sandra Buckler, Harper's director of communications, said the commercial rate was decided upon after discussions with various government departments and the private sector.

"There was no previous protocol, as the former Liberal government never reimbursed Canadian taxpayers when they used the Challenger for non-government business," she said in an e-mail.

"Aside from the first instance, Canada's new government has been consistent in its protocol for reimbursing the cost of an economy return trip ticket. We believe this is a fair balance, given the fact that the prime minister, for security purposes, must travel privately."

Looks fair. If Harper wasn't the prime minister he would pay the exact same amount as he pays now for a flight.

While not perfect - it's still leaps and bounds ahead of the old Liberals.

[Shakeyhands]

Looks fair. If Harper wasn't the prime minister he would pay the exact same amount as he pays now for a flight.

While not perfect - it's still leaps and bounds ahead of the old Liberals.

Again, the cost structure isn't the same and it was he that made it an issue with the previous Gov't.

[Martin Chriton]

Looks fair. If Harper wasn't the prime minister he would pay the exact same amount as he pays now for a flight.

While not perfect - it's still leaps and bounds ahead of the old Liberals.

Again, the cost structure isn't the same and it was he that made it an issue with the previous Gov't.

What's your issue with his reimbursement? The difference between what he's paying and the actual cost of the flight is for security. Are you suggesting the PM should be responsible for paying for his own security? What exactly is "fair" in this case?

[guyser]

What exactly is "fair" in this case?

Fair would be Harper being treated the same way he treated the Liberals. Not a string of "yeah buts "

[Shakeyhands]

What exactly is "fair" in this case?

Fair would be holding himself to the same standards that he proposed for others...

[Argus]

you two are missing the point as usual... you can't cry about something like a whiny bitch one minute, and then turn around and do the exact same thing, nevermind changing the mathematical formula for justification and reimbursment.....

You don't have a point. If Harper was jetting all over the world on vacations like Chretien did and we shrugged it off THEN you'd have a point. But he's not. His travel is nowhere near what Chretien's was.

And if we can't "cry like a whiny bitch one minute" then how come you are? You certainly had nothing but cheers when Chretien did it, and now Harper takes a couple of flights and you're sniveling like a "whiny bitch".

[Argus]

Now Harper is using it for personal and he is paying for it.

No, he isn't. Look at the aritcle again: "Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Conservatives are paying just a small fraction of the cost of partisan and personal junkets aboard the military's fleet of Challenger executive jets."

What would ten first class return air fares to Vancouver cost?

[Argus]

No one but drooling idiots begrudge the prime minister flying on official aircraft, even if it is on personal business.

Are you calling Steven Harper a drooling idiot?....cause he was the one opposed to the Liberals using the aircraft for personal use.

I think what he was opposed to was the out of control use of the aircraft for personal use on grossly consistent basis.

[Who's Doing What?]

You don't have a point. If Harper was jetting all over the world on vacations like Chretien did and we shrugged it off THEN you'd have a point. But he's not. His travel is nowhere near what Chretien's was.

And if we can't "cry like a whiny bitch one minute" then how come you are? You certainly had nothing but cheers when Chretien did it, and now Harper takes a couple of flights and you're sniveling like a "whiny bitch".

Time to take off the Conservative Blue goggles you've been looking through Argus. Good ol' Harper is no different from Chretien or Martin or any of your hated Liberals, or so-called Lefty Fanatics.

[Who's Doing What?]

What would ten first class return air fares to Vancouver cost?

Now why didn't someone bring that up when the Conservative were bashing the Liberals for doing the same damn thing?

[Argus]

What would ten first class return air fares to Vancouver cost?

Now why didn't someone bring that up when the Conservative were bashing the Liberals for doing the same damn thing?

Because they didn't. It wasn't the occasional use of aircraft that bugged the Conservatives, it was the open and massive misuse of them.

[Who's Doing What?]

What would ten first class return air fares to Vancouver cost?

Now why didn't someone bring that up when the Conservative were bashing the Liberals for doing the same damn thing?

Because they didn't. It wasn't the occasional use of aircraft that bugged the Conservatives, it was the open and massive misuse of them.

Ya,ya. I'm sure this is totally different.

[jdobbin]

No one but drooling idiots begrudge the prime minister flying on official aircraft, even if it is on personal business. For security reasons, the RCMP don't want the PM flying commercial. And I rather doubt the costs would be much better anyway when you include the half dozen bodyguards, the aides and secretaries and whatnots.

Chretien and Martin used the aircraft to fly all over the world on holidays and golfing trips and rarely, if ever reimbursed the taxpayer. Chretien, in fact, was notorious in insisting that a second challenger make the trips, trailing the first, so that if, for whatever reason, the first aircraft was delayed, or had mechanical difficulties, or whatever, he could use the "spare".

Not that this bothered you either.

It doesn't seem to bother you that Liberals under Martin paid for personal flights. I have no idea about Chretien or Mulroney.

The issue here is that Harper said the flights cost $11,000 an hour.

[jdobbin]

Talk about not having any shame LOL It apparantly only bothers them when the CPC is alleged to be doing something they don't like.

Likewise, it isn't an issue for you that someone independent of the PMO decides what the cost is.