Harper's Flights...

[blueblood]

No one but drooling idiots begrudge the prime minister flying on official aircraft, even if it is on personal business. For security reasons, the RCMP don't want the PM flying commercial. And I rather doubt the costs would be much better anyway when you include the half dozen bodyguards, the aides and secretaries and whatnots.

Chretien and Martin used the aircraft to fly all over the world on holidays and golfing trips and rarely, if ever reimbursed the taxpayer. Chretien, in fact, was notorious in insisting that a second challenger make the trips, trailing the first, so that if, for whatever reason, the first aircraft was delayed, or had mechanical difficulties, or whatever, he could use the "spare".

Not that this bothered you either.

It doesn't seem to bother you that Liberals under Martin paid for personal flights. I have no idea about Chretien or Mulroney.

The issue here is that Harper said the flights cost $11,000 an hour.

Harper and the tories paid some of the difference. Martin reimbursed only for his one family vacation, the liberals paid diddly squat.

ctv

[jdobbin]

I don't see what the real point is. Harper originally complained that Chretien was using the plane for personal reasons and not paying for it. Now Harper is using it for personal and he is paying for it. He was likely given an estimate for the cost when he was hounding Chretien and of course, it was a "worst case " scenario. But the crux of his original argument was that if you use the plane for personal business, you should pay something for it.....and he has. Talk about nit-picking.

Actually Harper complained that Martin was using the plane for personal reasons and not paying for it. He then found out that he was paying for it but said the actual costs were $11,000 an hour. Now, he has calculated those costs as 1/5 of that number. Coincidently, that was the amount Martin paid for personal flights.

[jdobbin]

Harper and the tories paid some of the difference. Martin reimbursed only for his one family vacation, the liberals paid diddly squat.

ctv

Like Harper, Martin said that he was doing government business. Harper attends fundraisers but then throws in something else.

Curiously, a flight by Harper to Charlottetown, P.E.I., and Moncton on April 28-29 for a provincial Conservative party fundraiser was not reimbursed as a partisan excursion.

Buckler said that trip included a "roundtable meeting with Block Parents" and was therefore considered government business.

That kind of fluid partisan-government mix was a frequent target of Conservative complaints when Liberal prime minister Paul Martin was in power.

Also, the Liberals today produced a lot more cancelled checks for personal flights and party business flights and have shown them to Canadian Press.

[jdobbin]

Looks fair. If Harper wasn't the prime minister he would pay the exact same amount as he pays now for a flight.

While not perfect - it's still leaps and bounds ahead of the old Liberals.

It ends up being the same amount of money that Martin paid for the flights.

[jdobbin]

You don't have a point. If Harper was jetting all over the world on vacations like Chretien did and we shrugged it off THEN you'd have a point. But he's not. His travel is nowhere near what Chretien's was.

And if we can't "cry like a whiny bitch one minute" then how come you are? You certainly had nothing but cheers when Chretien did it, and now Harper takes a couple of flights and you're sniveling like a "whiny bitch".

It was Martin who Harper raked over the coals. Harper is now paying the same amount that Martin paid for flights.

[blueblood]

Harper and the tories paid some of the difference. Martin reimbursed only for his one family vacation, the liberals paid diddly squat.

ctv

Like Harper, Martin said that he was doing government business. Harper attends fundraisers but then throws in something else.

Check your own link.

Also, the Liberals today produced a lot more cancelled checks for personal flights.

The point is Harper is paying some money back the Libs, paid none back.

...That kind of fluid partisan-government mix was a frequent target of Conservative complaints when Liberal prime minister Paul Martin was in power.

The Liberal party did not reimburse the federal treasury for any of the flights. But Martin personally did pay for his family's vacation to Morocco aboard the Challenger in December 2004, basing repayment on commercial airfare costs and then almost doubling the figure...

From CTV website

At least Harper is trying.

[jdobbin]

The point is Harper is paying some money back the Libs, paid none back.

At least Harper is trying.

Actually, you are wrong. The Liberal party disputed yesterday's article and have produced dozens of cancelled checks on flights they paid for. The amount works out to what Harper is paying now.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/28/jet-harper.html

People on Martin's staff denied the charge Wednesday night, telling CBC News they have documents to prove they reimbursed the military for the use of the Challengers.

Martin was trying and Harper made out that the flights cost $11,000 per hour.

[Saturn]

No one but drooling idiots begrudge the prime minister flying on official aircraft, even if it is on personal business.

The drooling idiots were Harper and co. when they were screaming their heads off in QP over Chretien's use of jets. Harper and co. were much bigger drooling idiots over a pack of gum. You are either too quick to forget or a similarly drooling one.

[geoffrey]

The drooling idiots were Harper and co. when they were screaming their heads off in QP over Chretien's use of jets. Harper and co. were much bigger drooling idiots over a pack of gum. You are either too quick to forget or a similarly drooling one.

Or perhaps like me was never a drolling one.

I have no issue with the PM using the Challengers for transportation, you can't fly him economy class. I had no issue with Martin staying in 5 star hotels or using the jets either. It's expected IMO.

[Saturn]

Harper flew his 120-seater jet from Ottawa to Vancouver, along with Rona and his staff (hopefully numbering less than 118), to announce that Rona was going to make an announcement in two days time. At $11K/hr (his own estimate), that's roughly $150K of money well spent on a photo-op for the PM...I mean...official business.

"As they pad their expense account and look out the windows of their $11,000 per hour Challenger jet flights to B.C., they think that everything is going pretty well," Harper then said. "They just don't get what real life is like for ordinary Canadians."

How appropriate!

[geoffrey]

Do you think he should fly next to you in economy class on Air Canada?

[gc1765]

Or perhaps like me was never a drolling one.

I have no issue with the PM using the Challengers for transportation, you can't fly him economy class. I had no issue with Martin staying in 5 star hotels or using the jets either. It's expected IMO.

You might not have an issue with it, but Harper sure did when he was in opposition, remember?

[jdobbin]

Do you think he should fly next to you in economy class on Air Canada?

Nope. I think They should have an independent body determine what the prices of a government jet is and bill the party for personal use.

Harper making the claim of $11,000 an hour and then setting the rates he is paying now show that there is a lack of independence in this process.

[Saturn]

Do you think he should fly next to you in economy class on Air Canada?

No, I think he should do his job instead of spending our money on photo-ops. Especially, after screaming about the previous PMs using the jets (and a carpet change and a pack of gum and a whole lot of other nonsense). If he is doing actual work and has a valid reason to fly, he can fly anything he wants as far as I'm concerned.

[Saturn]

Nope. I think They should have an independent body determine what the prices of a government jet is and bill the party for personal use.

Harper making the claim of $11,000 an hour and then setting the rates he is paying now show that there is a lack of independence in this process.

After making a huge fuss about Chretien and Martin using the jets, I would actually expect him to act as he said at the time, i.e. that the PM should not be using them.

[blueblood]

Nope. I think They should have an independent body determine what the prices of a government jet is and bill the party for personal use.

Harper making the claim of $11,000 an hour and then setting the rates he is paying now show that there is a lack of independence in this process.

After making a huge fuss about Chretien and Martin using the jets, I would actually expect him to act as he said at the time, i.e. that the PM should not be using them.

If that story about CPC reimbursing part of the flights whereas the LPC didn't reimburse them at all is true. (See my link earlier in thread) You have to give Harper some credit for trying. Mind you I'm throwing a big IF in there, if I'm wrong about that then he's being a hypocrite.

[Argus]

No one but drooling idiots begrudge the prime minister flying on official aircraft, even if it is on personal business.

The drooling idiots were Harper and co. when they were screaming their heads off in QP

translation; Asked questions in Question Period.

Damn them!

over Chretien's use of jets.

Translation: Over Chretien's gross and continual misuse and abuse of jets

[Argus]

Nope. I think They should have an independent body determine what the prices of a government jet is and bill the party for personal use.

Harper making the claim of $11,000 an hour and then setting the rates he is paying now show that there is a lack of independence in this process.

After making a huge fuss about Chretien and Martin using the jets, I would actually expect him to act as he said at the time, i.e. that the PM should not be using them.

When did Harper ever say the PM should not be using jets?

[Argus]

Harper flew his 120-seater jet from Ottawa to Vancouver, along with Rona and his staff (hopefully numbering less than 118), to announce that Rona was going to make an announcement in two days time. At $11K/hr (his own estimate), that's roughly $150K of money well spent on a photo-op for the PM...I mean...official business.

"As they pad their expense account and look out the windows of their $11,000 per hour Challenger jet flights to B.C., they think that everything is going pretty well," Harper then said. "They just don't get what real life is like for ordinary Canadians."

How appropriate!

So what is the price of flying the PM and a cabinet minister and her staff, and his bodyguards to Vancouver and back by commercial jet?

Again, it seems like there is some kind of bizarre mindset over there on the far fringes of liberaldom which says that Harper flying with a bunch of other political types and aides to Vancouver to make a political announcement is the same as Chretien using two jets (including the spare) to fly all over the world, logging hundreds of thousands of miles to visit far flung corners of the planet every year for no better purposes than to enjoy himself and play tourist. You seem completely incapable of telling the difference. That, of course, would be why you're all still Liberals.

[jdobbin]

If that story about CPC reimbursing part of the flights whereas the LPC didn't reimburse them at all is true. (See my link earlier in thread) You have to give Harper some credit for trying. Mind you I'm throwing a big IF in there, if I'm wrong about that then he's being a hypocrite.

The Conservatives on Wednesday said the Liberals didn't pay for the flights. On Thursday, Liberal headquarters released the cancelled checks to CTV, CBC and others showing they did pay for party business flights. That is also in the link I have above.

[jdobbin]

Again, it seems like there is some kind of bizarre mindset over there on the far fringes of liberaldom which says that Harper flying with a bunch of other political types and aides to Vancouver to make a political announcement is the same as Chretien using two jets (including the spare) to fly all over the world, logging hundreds of thousands of miles to visit far flung corners of the planet every year for no better purposes than to enjoy himself and play tourist. You seem completely incapable of telling the difference. That, of course, would be why you're all still Liberals.

You keep forgetting that Harper made these claims against Martin in 2005 and 2006. He said the flights were $11,000 an hour and that Martin paid much less for personal of party business. It now turns out that Martin paid what Harper does and he has the cancelled checks to prove it.

Certainly that information is available to the Tories now since they are the government. They could always release that news if they believed Martin was lying.

[guyser]

Again, it seems like there is some kind of bizarre mindset over there on the far fringes of liberaldom which says that Harper flying with a bunch of other political types and aides to Vancouver to make a political announcement is the same as Chretien using two jets (including the spare) to fly all over the world, logging hundreds of thousands of miles to visit far flung corners of the planet every year for no better purposes than to enjoy himself and play tourist. You seem completely incapable of telling the difference. That, of course, would be why you're all still Liberals.

Got to say this sure looks like a case of pot meet kettle. Can one really argue without hypocrisy on this issue?

Sounds like the Cons got their hands caught in the cookie jar , maybe they only stole one cookie and the LIbs two, but hardly an issue to make one worse than the other.

[hiti]

This is another example of the lying and drive by smears of Steve and his conservatives. As Ralph Goodale says they are a, "bully who stoops to "character assassination ... slur, innuendo, falsehood and personal abuse" to score cheap political points."

And when they are caught in their lies.... like the canceled cheques from the Liberal party paying for personal use of the jets, there is no virtues displayed or retractions given. Seems like Steve and his conservatives do not have a hint of decency in their bodies. No sense of what is right and wrong. No compassion. No honour or honesty. Not even any dignity or self-respect in lying about the Liberal party and its MPs.

Their mamas must be hiding their heads in shame at the lack of ethics and morals displayed by Steve and company.

[guyser]

Their mamas must be hiding their heads in shame at the lack of ethics and morals displayed by Steve and company.

Come on, someone had to teach them .

[hiti]

Their mamas must be hiding their heads in shame at the lack of ethics and morals displayed by Steve and company.

Come on, someone had to teach them .

You're absolutely right. Proud mamas.

How many here can afford filet mignon, fresh shark or tenderloin? No wonder those fat cheeks (both top and bottom) in the government benches are so red and plump.

Airborne menu still tony under Tories

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his cabinet will be dining from a menu of filet mignon, salmon steak and roast tenderloin of pork when they fly on the government's fleet of Challenger executive jets.

Specifications for a catering contract for the executive flights, obtained by CanWest News Service, detail the meal plans required when Harper, his staff and other senior government officials travel on the Department of National Defence aircraft.

The menus were specified in December, when the government reissued the requirements for potential suppliers to cater for the Challengers. When the contract was last tendered, in 2003, the Conservatives denounced then-prime minister Jean Chretien's government for "unchecked arrogance" in its selection of in-flight meals.

The requirements for caterers specify three main dishes: filet mignon with sauteed mushrooms, grilled salmon steak with lemon butter, and roast tenderloin of pork with sauteed mushroom sauce. They are offered with accompaniments such as Parissiene potatoes and carrots Vichy. Desert options include black forest cake, apple pie, and cherry cheese cake.

The tender document also specifies a cold plate with jumbo shrimp and a cheese tray with brie, Camembert and Saint-Paulin cheeses.

The documents require potential bidders to also provide prices for a long list of substitutions that include veal cordon bleu, chicken brochette, fresh shark, fresh red snapper, green bean almandine, florentine of vegetables, and pumpkin pie. Bidders were required to submit a price list of other cheeses, including Roquefort, Neufchantel, and Gruyere.

http://tinyurl.com/387vnx